Ron Heggs Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 Ron Why not just file a small nick in each rail at the required length rather than making individual 60ft track sections? Pete Because Ron is a hi-fidelity modeller! (why not though Ron?) Something to do with electrical gaps? Hi, All The main problem is that the rail lengths are only 455mm long (i.e. full 910mm lengths cut in half to prevent postal damage between UK and Spain). So can only make one 240mm track section per rail length. I could of course make a 455mm length with a false gap at say 227.5mm, removing two sleepers and shuffling the remaining sleeper gaps to match. The actual gaps will be used as electrical breaks, and any continuity made by connection to adjacent droppers from the rails of each section The missing 12.5mm approx. half inch may not be that noticeable in the midst of all the trackwork. The sleepers in the central section of the shorter length need adjusting to indicate a rail joint Ron 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portchullin Tatty Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Ron Why not just file a small nick in each rail at the required length rather than making individual 60ft track sections? Pete It is important for the C&L/Exactoscale track gap to have relatively short lengths to accomodate thermal expansion. As the rail section is fairly small if you don't the rail will buckle very easily if there is any constraint on expansion. Having said that, I tend to think that two 60 foot panels are OK. Not beyond this though. It pays to make sure that where an electrical gap is required it is of reasonable magnitude so that it does not close up when it gets hot and that the plastic fishplates are used (because creep of the rail can be an issue - not an issue if you solder to rivets/copper clad). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 It is important for the C&L/Exactoscale track gap to have relatively short lengths to accomodate thermal expansion. As the rail section is fairly small if you don't the rail will buckle very easily if there is any constraint on expansion. Having said that, I tend to think that two 60 foot panels are OK. Not beyond this though. It pays to make sure that where an electrical gap is required it is of reasonable magnitude so that it does not close up when it gets hot and that the plastic fishplates are used (because creep of the rail can be an issue - not an issue if you solder to rivets/copper clad). Hi, Mark The expansion/contraction is an important issue, as well as the electrical gapping. I have all the necessary plastic fishplates at the ready Cheers Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted October 2, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 2, 2014 It is important for the C&L/Exactoscale track gap to have relatively short lengths to accomodate thermal expansion. As the rail section is fairly small if you don't the rail will buckle very easily if there is any constraint on expansion. Having said that, I tend to think that two 60 foot panels are OK. Not beyond this though. It pays to make sure that where an electrical gap is required it is of reasonable magnitude so that it does not close up when it gets hot and that the plastic fishplates are used (because creep of the rail can be an issue - not an issue if you solder to rivets/copper clad). One way to stop the creep is to use something like small brass nails for your droppers, which then anchor the rail as well as supplying the juice. I've used 1" x 6 Brass wood screws on code 124 rail and once the rail is painted and ballasted they are invisible. There is also plenty of screw below the baseboard for soldering the wires to. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 One way to stop the creep is to use something like small brass nails for your droppers, which then anchor the rail as well as supplying the juice. I've used 1" x 6 Brass wood screws on code 124 rail and once the rail is painted and ballasted they are invisible. There is also plenty of screw below the baseboard for soldering the wires to. Jamie Hi, Jamie Anchoring the rail/track is a non-starter, since the track is either running over the plasticard deck of the viaducts or the 30mm thick foamboard baseboard. This also precludes the use of brass screws doubling up as anchors and droppers. The droppers are 1mm2 solid copper cores soldered to the underside of the rails and pushed through the foamboard to terminal blocks fixed to the supporting timber frame. On the viaducts the droppers are fed down inside the piers/supports and then through the foamboard. The internal part of the layout doesn't suffer from too wide a temperature variation, it is the external section which will be dealt with accordingly, i.e. anchoring the rails to brass screws fixed in the concrete bases Cheers Ron 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted October 2, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 2, 2014 (edited) That all makes sense Ron. I thought that you would have sorted it though in 4mm the creep should be minimal due to the light weight of the stock. Jamie Edited October 2, 2014 by jamie92208 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 The etches are now being processed The cost was a little bit of a shock, but did include all the one-time photo set-up costs and courier delivery - certainly a whole magnitude over the styrene cost of just under £6. The additional sections will be a little cheaper. Still it is going to save on-going rebuilds of disastrous UV destruction of the outdoor sections of the viaduct, if built in styrene Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 Not gone away or suffering from shock - just de-sprueing and threading 1000's of chairs on to rail, and of course fixing to sleepers. Will have the first 10m of track completed tomorrow ready to lay 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted October 6, 2014 Author Share Posted October 6, 2014 The Castlefield and Cornbrook Viaducts' decks have been covered with 1.5mm neoprene foam (on styrene decks) and 1.5mm cork (on ply decks), and a few lengths of track placed with a view to checking the inter-track spacings. This is necessary as the viaducts' widths taper and are all on a slight curve - The ply triangle section - top right is the entrance to the carriage sidings 17 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 One day a Director will pass over that bridge and glide into the station.... One day....... This is a fine wine slowly maturing. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted October 6, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 6, 2014 Ron This epic masterpiece is very slowly coming on to the finishing straight, if you're starting to think of tracklaying. To para-phrase Winnie it may not be the beginning of the end, but it may be the end of the beginning. I look forward to the rest of the saga. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted October 6, 2014 Author Share Posted October 6, 2014 Ron This epic masterpiece is very slowly coming on to the finishing straight, if you're starting to think of tracklaying. To para-phrase Winnie it may not be the beginning of the end, but it may be the end of the beginning. I look forward to the rest of the saga. I think I may have just tripped over the starting line Cheers Ron 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilgue Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 I think I may have just tripped over the starting line Cheers Ron I think you can safely say that you have passed the starting line when you get to the 100th page of posts! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) Ron I like others have been utterly mesmerised by this thread and the bit I really like is just starting. I spend some time building track, mostly chaired now and find the act of threading chairs quite therapeutic. I very rarely build plain track using chaired components except for short sections between turnouts and crossings. I have before built track panels on a small layout in prototypical sections with 12" sleepers at each end of the panel and altering the spacing, but I kept the rail lengths as long as I could by notching the rail breaks in the top of the rail and soldering etched fishplates to the webbing. As for lengths of rail, it must be a nightmare for those outside the UK. I plan my trips to shows depending if C&L are in attendance and pre-book the quantity I require that will get me through till the next show they attend near me. As for length C&L sell both 1 meter and 500 mm lengths, this way you could build two panels per length. It would reduce droppers required by half. I have no idea if 1 meter lengths could be sent to Spain though, but it might be worth speaking with Peter. I guess you are aware of them, but C&L sell Exactoscale plastic locking fishplates (48 per pack) http://www.finescale.org.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=346_347_349&product_id=4184, these look so much better than rail joiners and are strong enough to keep the rails inline whilst the glue sets. Once in position they allow expansion and contraction of the rails and look superb. ( I use them when fitting the switch rails to the common crossings, they line the rails up perfectly) Finally hats off for cutting your own sleeper (timbers) strip Edited October 7, 2014 by hayfield Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted October 7, 2014 Author Share Posted October 7, 2014 Ron I like others have been utterly mesmerised by this thread and the bit I really like is just starting. I spend some time building track, mostly chaired now and find the act of threading chairs quite therapeutic. I very rarely build plain track using chaired components except for short sections between turnouts and crossings. I have before built track panels on a small layout in prototypical sections with 12" sleepers at each end of the panel and altering the spacing, but I kept the rail lengths as long as I could by notching the rail breaks in the top of the rail and soldering etched fishplates to the webbing. As for lengths of rail, it must be a nightmare for those outside the UK. I plan my trips to shows depending if C&L are in attendance and pre-book the quantity I require that will get me through till the next show they attend near me. As for length C&L sell both 1 meter and 500 mm lengths, this way you could build two panels per length. It would reduce droppers required by half. I have no idea if 1 meter lengths could be sent to Spain though, but it might be worth speaking with Peter. I guess you are aware of them, but C&L sell Exactoscale plastic locking fishplates (48 per pack) http://www.finescale.org.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=346_347_349&product_id=4184, these look so much better than rail joiners and are strong enough to keep the rails inline whilst the glue sets. Once in position they allow expansion and contraction of the rails and look superb. ( I use them when fitting the switch rails to the common crossings, they line the rails up perfectly) Finally hats off for cutting your own sleeper (timbers) strip Hi, John I enjoy building everything from scratch where possible, and starting again with straight lengths allows me to get back into the rhythm, and also match the prototype as closely as possible (inspite of the track being in 00 gauge). The half lengths recently delivered from C+L range from 450-460mm, which I take to mean that they were cut from 910mm (3 foot) lengths. If they are now selling 1 metre lengths this would be far better I have a supply of Exactoscale plastic locking fishplates left over from previous track builds, but will require some additional supplies shortly The ply sleepers were a trial which is working out just fine - 300 x 300mm ply sheets give about 760 plain sleepers each (using the balsa stripper and the guillotine), and also allow the cutting of timbers for turnouts, etc. to match exact requirements To stain the the sleepers. I pour the wood stain into a spare half-pint glass (of course) and drop the sleepers in, wait a minute or so, pour out the stain back into the bottle, and dry out the sleepers on newspaper in the sun for about 10 minutes, and they are all ready to use Typically my method for construction is - Threading the chairs is getting to be reasonably enjoyable - counting them on (in Spanish) 22 + 1 reversed + 22 + 1 reversed to each 455mm rail length (with 480mm rails this would be 23+1+23+1) Notch the midpoint on the top of the rail, and fix split fishplates to both sides of the rail. Repeat this on the second rail with a set of opposing chairs Fix a complete set of 46 sleepers to the template, and glue (MEK) the two end chairs in position fix a 600mm straight-edge touching the rail at both ends, move the remaining chairs into position, and with the rail tight to the straight-edge brush MEK over every chair. Leave for 5 minutes, reposition the straight-edge to the opposite side of the rail, brush MEK on all the chairs now exposed Repeat for the second rail, using three track gauges in lieu of the straight-edge Then finally ease the track assembly from the template, using a 9mm Stanley knife with the blade fully extended Looking forward to the first turnout which will located at Great Northern Junction, just about another metre to go Cheers Ron 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted October 7, 2014 Author Share Posted October 7, 2014 A map of the area around the viaducts and Great Northern Junction - The trackwork being constructed/laid is to the left on the viaducts 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Ron I have measured the C&L rail I have and its 1 meter, also looked at the web site and they state either 1 m or 500 mm lengths. Looks like they have gone metric. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 Track plans of the Castlefield Junction area - Castlefield Junction is Left Centre connecting the Fast Up & Down lines to the GNR Goods Yards and Warehouse, which are off to the top right The two tracks bottom left are the Slow Up & Down lines off the Cornbrook Viaduct The middle track between the Fast and Slow lines is the line to/from the Cornbrook Carriage Sidings and the Trafford Park Loco sheds, which also crosses the Castlefield Viaduct The trackwork to the lower right with multiple crossings between all five lines is already built, and will be positioned and fixed when the above trackwork is in place Colours represent the electrical main rail supplies (Red & Blue) and the electrically switched rails (Green) Templot print of the Castlefield Junction crossing, which will be the next section of trackwork to be built 17 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 Just had a call from the Spanish Couriers, the package from Scotland containing the etches will be delivered between 17.00 and 19.00 on Monday This viaduct section is going to be a long build - after all the rivet punching 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Woolford Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Never had any etching done myself but the turnaround seems very quick, especially with the delivery to Spain. How do build times compare? Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 (edited) Never had any etching done myself but the turnaround seems very quick, especially with the delivery to Spain. How do build times compare? Michael Hi, Michael Go ahead to the etchers was given on Thursday 2nd October. Yesterday was a National Holiday in Spain, so that's 7 days for the production and delivery to Spain. The couriers are located in Alicante (70 kilometres away), don't work weekends, and only deliver to Jalon on Mondays - But who's in a rush Cheers Ron PS. Will let you know about comparison of build times on completion Edited October 10, 2014 by Ron Heggs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJChurchward Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Hi, Michael Go ahead to the etchers was given on Thursday 2nd October. Yesterday was a National Holiday in Spain, so that's 7 days for the production and delivery to Spain. The couriers are located in Alicante (70 kilometres away), don't work weekends, and only deliver to Jalon on Mondays - But who's in a rush Cheers Ron PS. Will let you know about comparison of build times on completion I'm looking forward to this... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) The courier didn't turn up last Monday - have contact with the etchers who are progressing delivery for me Rebuilding the Collier Street/Beaufort Street bridge spans, which support the Castlefield Junction GN trackwork - The card structure supporting the bridge girders suffered terminal water damage whilst in their transport box. Anyway it gives me an opportunity to construct a more accurate reproduction using information from Google Street view Before the packing for transit - undamaged Edited October 17, 2014 by Ron Heggs 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyneild Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Hi Ron, 1st time poster on the forum, I must confess I only stumbled on your project by accident whilst studying local history, I must say your attention to detail is amazing and it has moved me to join RMweb to follow your progress and even set up a little project of my own (in N Gauge due to limited space) I live in the local area 5 minutes walk from castlefiled all my life (52 now) and have spent my life walking past and working inside some of the arches in the environs you are creating without even giving them a second glance(hangs head in shame) but not anymore, your project has sparked my interest in Central Station that dovetails with my interest in local history perfectly, I find myself looking at how it has all change in the area comparing your work from the mid to late 50’s to what remain at present day. If you would ever like photos of the environs that is accessible by foot from street level or above then I could help, not sure how I could pass any pictures to you without flooding the forum with pictures but if you need any just give me a shout. Just a couple of pictures I have taken whilst out walking... https://flic.kr/p/nAoME1 https://flic.kr/p/nQQNr1 I have worked in this arch https://flic.kr/p/nVzd52 https://flic.kr/p/nTJC4r Thank Ron for your fantastic project, I look forward to following its progress, Guy. P.S I hope it is ok to post the pictures? I can delete if needed. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Heggs Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 Hi Ron, 1st time poster on the forum, I must confess I only stumbled on your project by accident whilst studying local history, I must say your attention to detail is amazing and it has moved me to join RMweb to follow your progress and even set up a little project of my own (in N Gauge due to limited space) I live in the local area 5 minutes walk from castlefiled all my life (52 now) and have spent my life walking past and working inside some of the arches in the environs you are creating without even giving them a second glance(hangs head in shame) but not anymore, your project has sparked my interest in Central Station that dovetails with my interest in local history perfectly, I find myself looking at how it has all change in the area comparing your work from the mid to late 50’s to what remain at present day. If you would ever like photos of the environs that is accessible by foot from street level or above then I could help, not sure how I could pass any pictures to you without flooding the forum with pictures but if you need any just give me a shout. Just a couple of pictures I have taken whilst out walking... https://flic.kr/p/nAoME1 https://flic.kr/p/nQQNr1 I have worked in this arch https://flic.kr/p/nVzd52 https://flic.kr/p/nTJC4r Thank Ron for your fantastic project, I look forward to following its progress, Guy. P.S I hope it is ok to post the pictures? I can delete if needed. Hi, Guy Thanks for your interest and comments. There is still some photographic info. outstanding for buildings which were demolished prior to the Great Northern and Beetham Tower constructions which I would guess were before your photographic forays started, say prior to 1970. Archives both Local and National have been searched without any photographic evidence (aerial or otherwise) coming to light I suppose the little I can remember of the structures may have to be sufficient. There cannot be many people around now who are likely to comment adversely on my recreations of long gone buildings Cheers Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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