artizen Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Keep it coming. One of my favourites in terms of build quality - now it is quality operation as well!!! Love to hear how much mucking about with kettles there actually was just to get rolling stock moved around in between the normal operations. All adds to the fun. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Exactly. A tiny minority of layout threads include much about how the layout is operated, and this is a complete contrast. Even a modestly-detailed layout can emulate prototype practices in the way the trains are run, yet we seldom find any details of operation are furnished with the description. Hopefully The Laird's thread here will lure a few more into operating with a timetable etc. - and telling us about it! How educational it would be to watch, or operate, a layout where the signals were controlled by one (or more) and the trains driven by others - to a timetable and in accordance with the signals of course. Keep up the good work John, looking forward as ever to the next installment(s). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leander Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Excellent stuff John and really interesting operationally which ties in nicely with the Railex 2011 (Aylesbury) thread about Frank Dyer's MRJ articles on operation http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/16292-railex-2011/page__pid__412901__st__200#entry412901 Post #201. Good to see you've got the Fairburn up and running too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ427 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Hi Andrew, I use Spratt and Winkle on all the stock that is not in fixed rakes and on the end of the fixed rakes. In other words only the stock that needs coupling or uncoupling on the scenic side. I use the 3mm version as this is less obtrusive but it does need a bit of setting up. Hopefully the following pics will show what you need to know but if you need more help ask! John E. Thanks for the really clear pics John. Makes sense. How low do you think you could go on radius with these? I might need to get down to 2' in some non-scenic areas. I've tried out the 3mm version on wagons with no probs down to that radius. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd1234 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Inspiring in so many aspects. Operations and their details have always been a fascination, carried out so brilliantly on a grimy setting. Shall be looking forward to future updates All the best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLaird Posted June 7, 2011 Author Share Posted June 7, 2011 Thanks for the really clear pics John. Makes sense. How low do you think you could go on radius with these? I might need to get down to 2' in some non-scenic areas. I've tried out the 3mm version on wagons with no probs down to that radius. Hi Andrew, it really depends on how close to the coach end you set them, if you have problems set them a little further out. Its a case of trial and error. In my experience, tight curves are not so much a problem as reverse curves, like through a crossover, a good place to try out any coupling system!! John E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLaird Posted June 7, 2011 Author Share Posted June 7, 2011 Excellent stuff John and really interesting operationally which ties in nicely with the Railex 2011 (Aylesbury) thread about Frank Dyer's MRJ articles on operation http://www.rmweb.co....200#entry412901 Post #201. Good to see you've got the Fairburn up and running too. Must admit that I too was inspired by Borchester many years ago, brilliant to see its still around. Glad you are following the thread on operations, its required reading for potential operators!! Thought it would be good for those commenting on signalling. John E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ427 Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Hi Andrew, it really depends on how close to the coach end you set them, if you have problems set them a little further out. Its a case of trial and error. In my experience, tight curves are not so much a problem as reverse curves, like through a crossover, a good place to try out any coupling system!! John E. Again, thanks for the advice John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLaird Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 The rake of vans that make up the Leeds parcels were a stop gap measure untill something more suitable could be arranged, so I have been sorting through the stock cupboard and dug out some parcels vans from my BR Blue period and one in GW livery. After a visit to the works for a quick makeover, I will have something more suitable in time for members day!! Just need a bit of weathering (or maybe a lot) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLaird Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 It would appear that my ramble through a typical day’s activity at Bradfield is of interest to quite a few, so here goes with the next phase. You will recall that the overnight parcels traffic has been dealt with and P1 is now clear to accommodate the departure of the day’s principal trains. P2A is still occupied by the Leeds parcels but there is room in 2B for a DMU. P3A and B are clear to accept the comings and goings of the local services, all of which are now operated by the new diesel units. Most of the principal trains are diagrammed for diesel haulage to save time as shed visits are not required, however, as we have seen, the new order is not always reliable and steam still has a role at Bradfield!! Our attention now shifts to the carriage sidings where all roads are full of empty stock from last night’s arrivals. D95 stands in CS4 at the head of the stock for the 7.32 to St Pancras. D95 brought in the Nottingham parcels but only from Leeds, it then crossed to the CS where it has remained shut down since then. As this is summer, there is no need for carriage warming so it has only just been fired up ready to commence its first duty of the day as carriage shunt. At the other end of the sidings, George Jowett the Foreman rushes in for work at a steady plod just as he has done for the last 40 odd years. Like his father before him George joined the Midland Railway as a cleaner at Bradfield as a lad. He then served his country out in India where he was fortunate to secure a posting with the railway. He enjoyed it so much that he volunteered to stay on for an extra tour of duty. Rumour has it that he took himself a local girl but the authorities would not permit her to return to England with him. George has lead a solitary life since. It is a little after 6.30 and D95 has drawn out the stock from CS4 into the head shunt and set back before uncoupling. Meanwhile, the black five that had been standing in P2, now crosses to the CS to collect the ECS. The five then draws forward into the CS reception/departure before propelling the train back into P1. The train includes a dining pair, an RFO and RU, to provide a breakfast service. The procedure is then repeated. This time D95 collects the stock for the 8.50 St Pancras out of CS1 and into the head shunt. This rake of Mk1 coaches is predominantly second class. D45 has been waiting in P3 since bringing in the Leeds parcels at 5.46; it now proceeds to the CS to collect this ECS. In the background the 7.32 is away on the first leg of its journey that will see it reverse at Leeds before continuing to London with a fresh loco. Next out is the stock for the 10.10 to St Pancras, a rake of ex LMS stanier coaches that includes a good proportion of first class accommodation for the businessmen. A dining pair will be added at Derby to provide a luncheon service before arrival in London. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLaird Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 8.10 sees the first of the days DMU’s arrive, this Met Cammel unit arrives into P3A forming the Leeds service. In the background D45 has set back into P1 with the 8.50. 8.20 and the DMU from Ilkley coasts in to P3. The 8.05 arrival from Skipton stands in P2B. A view from the CS shows D45 getting away with the 8.50 St Pancras. Like all southbound services this will reverse at Leeds, less than 20 miles away, where a fresh loco is attached. The Fairburn that has been simmering patiently in the centre road can now cross to the CS to collect its train. After drawing forward, the train is propelled back in to P1 to await departure. The final shunt sees D95 draw out the stock for perhaps the most interesting train of the day, the 10.38 to Paignton. This time, D95 runs round via P3 and becomes the train loco, at least as far as Leeds. This train is again mainly second class accommodation for “ordinary†travellers. Surprisingly, no refreshment facilities considering the length of journey. A “full house†at Bradfield. From right to left, the 10.10 St Pancras, parcels vans, 10.00 Skipton, 10.25 Ilkley and behind that the 10.50 Leeds. The Fairburn makes a vigorous start with the 10.10 St Pancras, on the extreme right the Paignton is ready to back down as soon as it is clear. This requires some brisk shunting as there is only 28 mins to departure! The CS now deserted, in the distance D95 gets away on time with the 10.38 Paignton. After all the hectic activity, the day settles in to a steady rhythm of local DMU’s. The only additional interest will be the Carlisle just after lunch until this evenings passenger arrivals and parcels departures! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 13, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 13, 2011 Ahha - I liked the deliberate mistake (well I think it was as i never saw that dmu depart -but maybe it did). But overall I think that was a smashing sequence and all perfectly credible and realistically done JLTRT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Ahha - I liked the deliberate mistake (well I think it was as i never saw that dmu depart -but maybe it did). But overall I think that was a smashing sequence and all perfectly credible and realistically done JLTRT That's because even on Model Railways everyone takes the humble DMU for granted and never notice them arrive and depart. We're all too busy watching shunts and loco hauled departures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
d winpenny Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 impressive layout some great pictures david Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerner Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I hope to be able to see this layout sometime and watch the operation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLaird Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 The illusive "departing DMU's". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weekday Cross Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 They look so eerie with no crew and no passengers Perhaps that's a reflection on how realistic everything else looks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingsignalman Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Interesting set of pictures. I would have thought, that in 1962, a main line diesel woudn't have been tied up shunting ECS sidings but that a dedicated shunting engine, maybe a jinty or say a class 03 would have been allocated to the duty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLaird Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 Interesting set of pictures. I would have thought, that in 1962, a main line diesel woudn't have been tied up shunting ECS sidings but that a dedicated shunting engine, maybe a jinty or say a class 03 would have been allocated to the duty. Thanks for the reply and your thoughts on operation. One of the main reasons I posted on RMWeb was to promote some discussion on the operational aspects. Not being a railwayman and with my 21st Century head on, my thoughts were that this is quite a small station, probably being run down, could a dedicated pilot be justified? Studying the WTT, workings appear to be equally balanced so that incoming Loco's would have an outward duty. This I have tried to replicate but what to do with the loco during the layover period? Steam loco's would need to visit the shed or serviceing facility and be turned etc, but the perceived advantage of Diesels was to negate this. Again the 62 WTT shows minimal LE moves and passenger Loco's were comming from Leeds!! So perhaps no local facilities for Diesels? So, instead of just leaving it ticking over in a siding or platform, it seemed like a good idea to use it for a shunt!! What do RMWebbers think? One other more practical reason for using a mainline loco at exhibitions is that my 0-6-0's are not reliable enough. I hate it when they stall especially with a sound chip!! I have tried a Zimo decoder with stay alive capacitor but to no avail.( I do clean the wheels, rail and pickups regularly). John E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLaird Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 They look so eerie with no crew and no passengers Perhaps that's a reflection on how realistic everything else looks! Never too sure if folks are being serious or not but this is an old dilema wether to populate or not? Whilst I agree with the above, It also looks odd when DMU's are stabled overnight in sidings or serviceing facilities full of passengers. Same goes for coaching stock, also when shunting or backing out - against the rules I beleive?? So I leave em empty. Regards, John E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Splendid stuff. I could happily lose myself shuffling stock around here. But have to agree with the station pilot idea. Why not an 03 with runner? You then have five axles to pick up from? Very much a feature of many terminus operations at this period. Like so? at Newcastle In green of course... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Grafarman Posted June 14, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 14, 2011 I suppose that for those of us who run trains in and out of stations and don't have stabling on the layout it's ok to put people into coaches, but if there's stabling like on Bradfield you are right in saying it looks odd having them sit there overnight... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.C.M Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Hi John, Another superb set of pictures,B) I am no expert on 1962 and I am not sure how far away the shed is but your station certainly seems busy enough for a shunt loco, if 0-6-0 don't work to well maybe a small tank engine a little Ivatt or standard, only because I like them. There might be an early turn and a late turn the loco could go of to the shed when it's not busy, it could be used for local freight trips off scene when not needed at the station. I think the Diesels would possibly still go off to the shed as I think it would still be the signing on point for the drivers. I have the same dilema with adding passengers as I also have ECS moves, though not all stock uses the carriage sidings, I am not sure if adding passengers to some stock would look right though. I have added crews to my locos. . Cheers Peter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 14, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 14, 2011 Thanks for the reply and your thoughts on operation. One of the main reasons I posted on RMWeb was to promote some discussion on the operational aspects. Not being a railwayman and with my 21st Century head on, my thoughts were that this is quite a small station, probably being run down, could a dedicated pilot be justified? Studying the WTT, workings appear to be equally balanced so that incoming Loco's would have an outward duty. This I have tried to replicate but what to do with the loco during the layover period? Steam loco's would need to visit the shed or serviceing facility and be turned etc, but the perceived advantage of Diesels was to negate this. Again the 62 WTT shows minimal LE moves and passenger Loco's were comming from Leeds!! So perhaps no local facilities for Diesels? So, instead of just leaving it ticking over in a siding or platform, it seemed like a good idea to use it for a shunt!! What do RMWebbers think? John E. I think the way you are working it is totally credible and makes a lot of sense - stations didn't have pilot locos if the work could be done more cheaply in another way and pilots had begun to disappear from places where there was little work by this period although Regional practice varied so it is always worth checking out the situation at a similar prototype - if you can find one - in the period you are modelling (which you appear to have done already). My only question would be for how long is that diesel being left standing on the coaches and is it still manned? The reason being that if it was to be shutdown and the crew leave it then the siding is not a suitable or acceptable place (as things were back then) for prepping the loco when it is re-manned. However as it would remain manned during the Carriage Warming Period perhaps a diagrammer somewhere is taking a shortcut and leaving it manned all year round or it just works out that the crew's hours leave it that way and it's easier to leave them with the loco: it would incidentally be double-manned on safety grounds under the 1957 Manning Agreement so no need for it to be shut down for the Driver to take his break - clever stuff modelling prototypical operating. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jason T Posted June 14, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 14, 2011 British Railways Past & Present No. 2 (South & West Yorkshire) has a photo of an 03 & runner acting as station pilot at Bradford Exchange in 1979. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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