Jon_Eng Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 I noticed this picture of what seem to be vertical wigwags on Wikipedia, reportedly between Church Stretton and Hereford on the Welsh Marches line (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Marshbrook_-_geograph.org.uk_-_279032.jpg). I have seen something very similar on the AHB at Warden, between Haydon Bridge and Hexham on the Tyne valley line. I presume that it's a vertical wigwag, so how would it work when activated?; would it be a red/yellow/red set that behaves like a normal level crossing light when activated; is it used when sight lines on approach roads are restricted? 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Richard E Posted December 30, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 30, 2010 Interesting because the lights from the other direction are the normal rectangular 2 over 1 set up. So is the set on the right hand side of the road, it is only those on the left of the road that appear in the traffic light style. Not seen this anywhere else. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 I think it's used because with the standard setup two of the three lights would be hidden behind the pub - I think there are similar "low clearance" ones at Lincoln as well? 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 30, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 30, 2010 This is a set for a restricted clearance at Furness Vale. The other three are normal size. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon_Eng Posted December 30, 2010 Author Share Posted December 30, 2010 Thanks for the answers so far. Did the format for the low-clearance version change recently? I've found versions on the geograph.org.uk website of the same levelˆˆg on the Tyne Valley line "before" (2006) http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1564956 "after" (2010) http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2069316 Does anyone know how/why the changeover happened? Thanks in advance 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Russ (mines a pint) Posted December 31, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2010 Does anyone know how/why the changeover happened? I assume it would be to make things more standard, in a 'health & safety' style of way- there was a big advertising campaign recently about the 'dangers' of level crossings. Being very cynical I might even suggest that an accident (might of allegedly) occured at one of the sites with the old style lights - where the old style of light might allegedly be to blame rather than (car) driver error? 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted December 31, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2010 I think it might be in connection with that minor road that comes in next to the pub, down from Minton? Is it about visibility to drivers from that direction? The road coming from behind the camera is pretty wiggly, too. It makes a good cut-through from the Welsh side if you want to avoid the Long Mynd, so that implies heavy and long loads might prefer it. Have sunk a few pints in the pub. Also recall the double bend on the A49 there. About 30 years ago I was driving south towards Craven Arms when King George V suddenly appeared going north in full-steam-ahead mode. A quick U-turn and back through those bends, pedal to the metal, in my already-rusting twin-cam Lancia Beta. KGV actually stopped at Stretton for water. That stretch of line was also my first sighting of a solar-powered signal, presumably just battery charging, possibly on Marshbrook's Up Distant. EDIT. Deb, who has dined there more recently than me, points out the food in pub is excellent! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 31, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2010 The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 lay down the format of the lights. The vertical configuration is not permitted for level crossings. For normal use the sign is Diagram 3014. In specially authorised circumstances the narrow sign to Diagram 3015 can be used. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Welly Posted December 31, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 31, 2010 I think it's used because with the standard setup two of the three lights would be hidden behind the pub - I think there are similar "low clearance" ones at Lincoln as well? There used to be vertical ones at Lincoln on the side of the narrow driveway between the railway tracks and the shop units south of the High Street LC. They have since been replaced by standard ones mounted on the opposite side of the road. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 31, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2010 This is the DfT Traffic Advisory Leaflet on the use of Wig-Wag Signals TAL0108 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 One of the crossings at Three Horse Shoes (March-Peterborough) has a vertical on one side due to restricted clearance. I'm on shift in London until Tues so can't provide a pic, can anyone else? 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 31, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2010 One of the crossings at Three Horse Shoes (March-Peterborough) has a vertical on one side due to restricted clearance. I'm on shift in London until Tues so can't provide a pic, can anyone else? The crossing on the March side of Three Horse Shoes is a very acute angle and the lights between the road and railway at each side are the correct restricted clearance ones to Diagram 3015, as shown in my picture of Furness Vale above. They can be seen on Google Earth. There is a subtle difference in law between the Diagram 3014 / 3015 layout and the vertical Diagram 3000 used for normal traffic lights. Diagram 3000 lights can be legally passed at red by certain vehicles in certain circumstances, e.g. ambulances and fire engines going to an emergency. Stopping at Diagram 3014 / 3015 lights when lit is compulsory for all vehicles, with a spot prize of 9 points for getting caught passing at red. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 One of the crossings at Three Horse Shoes (March-Peterborough) has a vertical on one side due to restricted clearance. I'm on shift in London until Tues so can't provide a pic, can anyone else? I don't have a photo but this box diagram shows No1 crossing and it's angle... http://richard2890.fotopic.net/p36793144.html Three Horse Shoes No2 and 3 are still gated at this date. It is the same road crossing all three crossings.. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 1, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 1, 2011 I don't have a photo but this box diagram shows No1 crossing and it's angle... http://richard2890.f.../p36793144.html Three Horse Shoes No2 and 3 are still gated at this date. It is the same road crossing all three crossings.. From Google Earth the box diagram looks well out of date. The crossing with the Diagram 3015 lights is the first one from the box towards March. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ruggedpeak Posted August 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 21, 2021 (edited) As we landed at Marshbrook LC, near Church Stretton on the Welsh Marches Line, by accident the other day I thought I'd resurrect this thread. On one side of this crossing there are 3 sets of wigwags, on the left is the vertical one (red-orange-red) and on the right two normal sets at 90 degrees to each other as there is a side junction that meets the main road at the crossing. The signal box is manned and the crossing is protected by semaphores in both directions. Eastern approach just off A49 View from eastern side looking south View of western side with lights at 90 degrees for road junction Eastern side with vertical lights on left, road junction on the left Eastern side looking north TfW 153 heading south I can also highly recommend the fish finger sandwich at the Station Inn - perfectly placed for food, drink and rail photography! http://www.stationinnmarshbrook.co.uk/ Edited August 21, 2021 by ruggedpeak 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Sounds like a lovely place to drop in for lunch and a pint .......... it's a fair hike from the station though ! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted August 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 21, 2021 I'm surprised there are still any about as IIRC they were taken out of the Traffic Signal Regs in 2002. The 2016 version does not list ant permitted variations. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ruggedpeak Posted August 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 21, 2021 Just had similar comment on the Prototype for everything thread as I'd linked this there. I think the fundamental issue is that anything else would foul the carriageway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 I don't think the vertical arrangement was ever in the Highway Code, so (assuming one survives!) one might get lucky with challenging prosecution on those grounds, but in most cases there's still another set of wigwags on the other side of the street with the valid arrangement. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamThomas Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 Is it possible that the newer regulations are not retrospective ? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 I think the vertical ones were probably never valid but most people would understand them and use commons sense. I believe that at one time ordinary road traffic lights were only legally enforceable if the pole had black and white stripes (of a certain size), a white line of a given thickness, metal studs in the road and the correct timing of the lights. But if you ignored them and hit something proceeding from the other road through the green lights, you would still have been negligent, so they could nick you for driving without due care and attention even though you might have got off on a technicality if charged with jumping the red light. Changes to standards would usually only apply to new works, but if the Department had decided that the railways had been erecting non-compliant signs in a few places the railway would usually be prevailed upon to fix them within a reasonable period. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 (edited) There are still some at Three Horse Shoes on the March-Peterborough line. Edited August 22, 2021 by stewartingram 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomag Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 20 hours ago, SamThomas said: Is it possible that the newer regulations are not retrospective ? Except for a limited number of signs there is a saving which means anything lawful when the new regs come into force stays prescribed until moved, or removed. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 It's possible they are not legally enforceable, but it's clearly safer to have a non-compliant set of lights than to have none at all in that position. If someone went through them they could probably be prosecuted anyway for violating the compliant lights that are also visible from the same direction of approach. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted August 23, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 23, 2021 On 21/08/2021 at 17:58, TheSignalEngineer said: I'm surprised there are still any about as IIRC they were taken out of the Traffic Signal Regs in 2002. The 2016 version does not list ant permitted variations. How about where the standard ones are simply impossible to fit in? There's this set near me (Furness Vale), where there's simply not the space for an ordinary full-sized wigwag on the left, although it's a compacted horizontal version rather than a vertical one: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.3488053,-1.9892803,3a,37.5y,52.64h,81.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1srnbcnLT0JL-2MQmK4Gnt8A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?ucbcb=1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now