GRANBY JUNCTION - Shunting Siphons for the Up Parcels with a Manor!

[The Johnster]

We wish, at least another 3 years with Bachmann's current performance it's still in CAD stage according to the Hornby magazine this month.

 

 

So, still before the 94xx, then...

[trw1089]

Forgive me father, for I have sinned.  It has been a week since my last Pannier.  I tried very hard to avoid it, but it just kept getting in front of my camera.  Woe is me...

 

 

At least when I forced myself to turn away there were no more in the shot... 

 

 

Last Friday on the SVR.  Thankfully they had the Gresleys behind that Chocolate and Cream jobby, so I could at least get some soothing with some LNER stock.  (is it OK to admit that I might have actually enjoyed it though...)

 

We did also drive through Shrewsbury and I saw the turnoff to Chester, plus spent a nice week in North Wales in order to pay proper homage to Granby.  I'd also tried really hard to infect myself with the GWR infliction, but with the Gresleys and then a Great Eastern loco on the SVR, my resolve disappeared and I slumped into a longing for a nice apple green pacific...

[john dew]

Forgive me father, for I have sinned.  It has been a week since my last Pannier.  I tried very hard to avoid it, but it just kept getting in front of my camera.  Woe is me...

 

 

 

Snap!

 

 

 

 

Your's scrubbed up a bit better than mine!

 

Very funny post Tony. Hope you enjoyed your holiday in the UK......whereabouts did you get to in North Wales?

 

Best wishes

 

John 

 

 

 

 

 

[trw1089]

Thanks John

 

I hope it was taken in the jest it was meant!

 

We stayed in Llanberis for 4 nights and managed to get to the Welsh Highland, Ffestiniog, Tallylyn and a brief stop at Carrog on the Llangollen. We also visited Llanfair PG, Holyhead, Bangor, Caernarfon, Llandudno and Llanwrst (the latter for some cracking fish and chips) to absorb the North Wales atmosphere. On our way over we were heading over from Nottingham so we're probably a bit to the South of Granby's route, but I saw the signs for some of the key locales you refer to.

 

I have to admit I was thinking about Granby quite a bit while we were there.

 

Cheers

Tony

[john dew]

Hi Tony

 

Sounds like a great trip........lots of very familiar names there.

 

I was brought up in Crosby, just north of Liverpool, so North Wales featured a lot. My mother moved my sister and I to Prestatyn to avoid the blitz, followed by holidays and day trips , by sea on the StTudno, to Llandudno, Army cadet camps at Rhyl and later in life the annual Menai Straits Regatta at Beaumaris

 

I doubt if much of what you saw would bear a strong resemblance to Granby. North Wales has changed a great deal in the past 70 years and in any event I am afraid Granby owes more to Oldham than Wrexham......except that the GWR didn't run to Oldham!

 

You mentioned visiting Carrog.....if you haven't done so already you should look at Larry Goddard's (Coachman) wonderful thread of that name.....he likes Panniers as well!

 

Best wishes

[john dew]

I am afraid that guests from the UK and a major update to RR&Co have delayed finishing the Cattle Train.


So to pass the time here is something


 Completely different:



 

 

Hatton's Warwell as loaned to the LMS.

Warwells were originally built during WWII to transport Tanks in the build up to D Day  and were used for all manner of tasks thereafter

Superb detail, crisp lettering,smooth running and an ideal time stamp.....whats not to like?

 Well the price perhaps. Its undoubtedly the most expensive RTR wagon to appear on Granby.

 Many of you will know that I categorise projects/purchases into Must do,Should do and Could do. I am still not entirely clear how the Warwell ......half way down the Could buy list appeared so quickly in Vancouver! In reality not qick enough the GWR version had sold out by the time I made my mind up

Of course the nett result of its appearance was that a suitable tank shot to the very top of the must buy list.

Oxford have recently produced models of the Sherman tank.......for which the Warwell was originally designed......although no longer the pre-dominant British Army tank, Shermans were still being moved around in 1948. Unfortunately the Oxford models available were in desert liveries that would have involved repainting and some modification. It seemed just as quick (and cheaper) to buy a kit.

Being an ex PBI I know little about tanks so, after much research I opted for this :
 

 

 

 

A resin casting of a Comet......until a few weeks ago a tank I had never heard of.....it was produced too late for D Day but served very effectively in NW Europe, and after WWII in Korea, before being superseded by the Centurion.Perfect for Granby's time period.

This was not the bargain of the century.......the initial price compared favourably with Oxford but coming from a small supplier, Post and Packing were off the scale.....more than the cost of the model! Not long after I bought it, Airfix re -released their Sherman kit!  One lives and learns...even at my age.

Its interesting to compare a Military model kit with a wagon kit.  Here are the bits and pieces:

 

 

 

Lots of fine detail on the body and turret......but with a lot of flash on the small mouldings.

 No instructions or exploded diagrams.

 I think I have worked out where everything belongs.......although not the function of all of them.

Assembly will be interesting!

Regards from Vancouver
 

Edited September 30, 2022 by john dew
29/9/2022 Photos

[M.I.B]

 here is something

 

 

 Completely different:

 

 

 

I can  hear  Souza's Liberty Bell..............

 

IIRC the Comet was the first MBT to have the dreaded ITT  "Infantry Tank Telephone" - a handset in a box at the rear of the tank.  When the donkey wallop-ers, and the PBI were working in unison, and Lt  Ffanshawe Smythe needed to direct a bit of firepower, he could stand behind the mobile pill box and talk to the crew and direct shots.

 

Not too well thought out because Lt Ffanshawe-Smythe was stood right by the exhausts and the engine and had to put up with that racket whilst trying to hear what the crew reply was........

[john dew]

Hi Tinker

 

You have been missed! I assumed you had forsaken your shiny new office for yet another god forsaken part of the world.

 

Loved the story....I can totally believe it....though Lt. Fanshawe-Smythe sounds more like a cavalry officer than a PBI

 

Cheers

[St Enodoc]

Hi Tinker

 

You have been missed! I assumed you had forsaken your shiny new office for yet another god forsaken part of the world.

 

Loved the story....I can totally believe it....though Lt. Fanshawe-Smythe sounds more like a cavalry officer than a PBI

 

Cheers

Weren't the first tanks operated by cavalry regiments?

[john dew]

Weren't the first tanks operated by cavalry regiments?

Indeed they were...in fact I believe some still are.....but Tinker is suggesting Fanshawe-Smythe is outside the tank phoning in!

[St Enodoc]

Indeed they were...in fact I believe some still are.....but Tinker is suggesting Fanshawe-Smythe is outside the tank phoning in!

Ah yes, got it. Thanks.

[M.I.B]

..I can totally believe it....though Lt. Fanshawe-Smythe sounds more like a cavalry officer than a PBI

 

Cheers

 

I served with the 17/21st Lancers ("Death or Glory"  and  Charge of the Light Brigade etc) Battle Group for a while in the 80s.  Apart from the QM and QM(Tech) I was the only Rupert with a single barreled name.

 

Still alive John, and loving the updates from you and Robin and comments from the Duck.  All keeps me sane.  Many many thanks.

[The Stationmaster]

Weren't the first tanks operated by cavalry regiments?

 

No.  The first unit to operate tanks was the Heavy Section of the machine Gun Corps which was formed in March 1916 specifically to operate tanks.  In July 1917 it was separated from the Machine Gun Corps and renamed the Tank Corps.

 

N.B.The Machine Gun Corps had been formed in 1915 and had various sections - the Infantry Branch (the largest branch of the Corps), the Cavalry Branch, and the Motor Branch.  The Tank Corps became the Royal Tank Corps in 1923 and the Royal Tank Regiment in  1939 at which time it became part of the Royal Armoured Corps which combined it with the previous cavalry regiments which had been mechanised with tanks and other AFVs.  Mechanisation of cavalry regiments had not commenced in the British army until 1928 and in 1938 18 mechanised cavalry regiments joined the Royal armoured Corps leaving two regiments on active service (until 1940) which were still mounted on horses and based in the Middle East.

 

So not only were the first tanks not operated by cavalry regiments but tanks had been in use in the British army for 12 years before any cavalry regiment was mechanised.

[john dew]

 

Cattle train is finally done.

It took a while to find the Coopercraft kits that I think I bought in the mid nineties. I only completed a couple and the rest were squirrelled away part built. They survived two house moves......after a fashion!

 

 

 

Repaired, painted, lots of transfers applied and weathered........ heading over the canal towards Cynwyd.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The cattle dock is just behind the creamery
 

 

 

 

 

The plan is to run a regular weekly schedule, exchanging two empty wagons for two wagons loaded with Cattle for the market at Mold.

I am not sure how prototypical it would have been to operate like this.....I suspect it was more likely that Cattle traffic on a small branch would have been handled by the daily goods......nevertheless its a convenient way of adding more traffic to the lower level and hopefully not too unfeasible.



The train will enter Cynwyd by the relief loop and then back into the Goods Yard

 

The observant may notice that there has been a loco exchange!

 

 

 

I used the photo shoot to test the sequence that will eventually be automated. Quite useful. The 56xx, my original locp choice didnt like some of the yard points, the train proved to be one wagon too long for the goods siding and some of the kadee couplers were a tad high. 

The new loco is a very work stained ex ROD 2-8-0. Again probably unlikely on the branch (any thoughts on this?) but with the delayed arrival of the Oxford Dean Goods I am running a bit short on suitable Branch Freight locos. The branch storage sidings  already have 2 Pick up goods and a Coal train hauled by two Collets and the only spare Pannier.

The 30xx stops over the uncoupler and detaches the two empty wagons that will be exchanged

 

 

I have become quite knowledgeable about GWR Cattle Wagon liveries.......so now I have more things I could worry about. http://yourmodelrailway.net/images/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

25" letters were applied from 1904 to 1920 and then 16" until 1936 when 5" lettering was applied in the bottom LH corner.  Changes in livery (ie lettering) were applied to new builds but only changed on existing stock when they went to the workshop for repairs or repaint. I believe that wagons were subject, in theory to a 7 year repaint schedule. I doubt if this schedule was adhered during the war years so the 16" lettering I have mostly used wouldnt be too out of place in 1948.

I suspect that the large 25" lettering would be a lot rarer and I probably should have re lettered the ones that I originally made.....but decided to show their advanced age by heavier weathering.

The oval lettering in the RH corners states "Not Common User Return to GWR".  Cattle Wagons were pooled by the Big Four in 1927. After less than a year, the GWR, believing their wagons to be superior to those of the other three, withdrew them from the pool.......hence the label.   I thought that was so typical of the GWR that I had to apply the decals even though they may not have survived the War when the wagons were again pooled. Having said that Bachmann applied them to their wagons which have 1936-1948 livery.
  

 

 

The ROD pushes the two empties along the Shed siding to the cattle dock

 

 

 

Couples with the two wagons already loaded........after all my banging on about the significance of full and empty wagons I must confess I gave up on inserting cattle via a removeable roof.

 

The 30xx then returns with the four wagons to the remainder of the train waiting in the yard siding

Couples the loaded wagons in the rear to the train and then returns to the cattle dock with the original two empties

 

A question for the experts.....the 30xx is coded Class C for a previous working. Assuming that all the wagons are fitted what is the correct code for a Cattle Train picking up and dropping wagons at intermediate stations? My guess would be K "Pick up or branch freight". Excluding B "Stopping Passenger", the description for classes A thru F all mention Express which this train is not.

The two loaded wagons are attached to the train and it then leaves the yard via the loop relief for Mold

 

 

 

 

 

 

I almost forgot to mention......a couple of the Coopercraft bodies were beyond repair although the chassis were great so I substituted Parkside LNER bodies..........they almost look like the GWR W12s produced by Bachmann and Dapol except mine have two apertures, rather than one, in the doors.............I am sure everyone spotted that  blooper! http://yourmodelrailway.net/images/emoticons/icon_lol.gif

Regards from a very wet Vancouver

 

 

Edited September 30, 2022 by john dew
29/9/2022 Photos

[john dew]

No.  The first unit to operate tanks was the Heavy Section of the machine Gun Corps which was formed in March 1916 specifically to operate tanks.  In July 1917 it was separated from the Machine Gun Corps and renamed the Tank Corps.

 

N.B.The Machine Gun Corps had been formed in 1915 and had various sections - the Infantry Branch (the largest branch of the Corps), the Cavalry Branch, and the Motor Branch.  The Tank Corps became the Royal Tank Corps in 1923 and the Royal Tank Regiment in  1939 at which time it became part of the Royal Armoured Corps which combined it with the previous cavalry regiments which had been mechanised with tanks and other AFVs.  Mechanisation of cavalry regiments had not commenced in the British army until 1928 and in 1938 18 mechanised cavalry regiments joined the Royal armoured Corps leaving two regiments on active service (until 1940) which were still mounted on horses and based in the Middle East.

 

So not only were the first tanks not operated by cavalry regiments but tanks had been in use in the British army for 12 years before any cavalry regiment was mechanised.

 

You are of course absolutely correct Mike........I knew my original response was too glib and intended to edit it........I was too concerned about locating Ffanshawe-Smythe outside the Tank!

 

You have reminded me of the origins of the RTR regimental tie.....Brown, Red and Green stripes......"Through Mud and Blood to Green Fields"

 

Cheers

[mullie]

Photos 2 and 3 seem to suggest your bridge has taken a bit of a beating.

 

A cattle train of that length, could it be market day? Cattle wagons could also be pressed into service for other products, though I don't know if this was the case on the GWR.

 

Martyn

[john dew]

Photos 2 and 3 seem to suggest your bridge has taken a bit of a beating.

 

A cattle train of that length, could it be market day? Cattle wagons could also be pressed into service for other products, though I don't know if this was the case on the GWR.

 

Martyn

Darn I meant to fix that.......Bomb Damage no doubt!

 

GWR used their surplus cattle wagons to ship Broccoli from Cornwall.....there is an interesting film about it. Not sure how much broccoli was grown in North Wales......I will settle for the weekly cattle market.

 

Cheers

[trw1089]

That is one nice looking cattle train and nice to see the nicely weathered ROD too, you've done a great job on both John.

 

Cheers

Tony

[The Stationmaster]

Ah, now it gets interesting.

 

Firstly the lamps - as the setting of your layout is pre the May 1950 change of headlamps codes the ROD is actually carrying Class D lamps - here is a very useful list by date of the various standard GWR/WR headlamp codes (note that there were some local variations mainly applying to light engines but sometimes to local passenger trains and to inter-Rehgional freight trains in the London area)

 

http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/misc/headcodes.htm

 

Now to the engine - provided there were no structural clearance problems the ROD is a quite acceptable substitute for a 56XX with relatively light axle loading.

[john dew]

Thank you so much for the link Mike...... thats very helpful..........all printed out and guess what todays job is?

 

I have always tried to have my locos correctly coded and have struggled (and until now failed!) to get a definitive list. Previously I had relied for the last few years on a printout from the Tiscali site. Its interesting comparing the two......the "standards" express and ordinary passenger, pick up goods etc remain the same (fortunately) most of the differences seem to centre around variations of express freight.....good job I am still working on my Halls........and my coal empties have to change as well.

 

Glad the 30xx is acceptable .....it does add a touch of variety although I see this morning that the Dean Goods is now imminent.

 

Thank you once again for helping me keep Granby roughly on the straight and narrow.

 

Best wishes

 

John

[john dew]

I am afraid that yet again I have missed my self imposed target of a weekly update. This weeks excuse?.......Granby is operated by RR&Co computor control......Version 9, a mega update was recently released. To take advantage of significant improvements in speed control and stopping accuracy locos need to be re-profiled. Profiling each loco takes 45+ minutes. Watching a loco run back and forth on the profiling track is hardly photogenic........watching paint dry is probably more interesting.



With all the new branch goods trains set up and weathered it was time to put the street scene cover back in place.
 

 

 

 

 

 

And reunite poor Edith Jones with her washing (see post #640  August 15th!)





The original plan was to swiftly repair the Halt and press on with the new Brewery. Unfortunately, and very unusually a parcel containing the last essential turnout and a Dapol footbridge kit left the UK on Sept 5 and arrived here yesterday. http://yourmodelrailway.net/images/emoticons/icon_sad.gif


So sadly the Halt remains in pieces although at least the walls are back in place.

 

 

Now for news of my new tank..........not the Comet for the Warwell that featured a few posts back but a

 

 

 

                                                                         HUGE TANK

 

 

 

 

 

I am never sure when writing posts like this how to best pitch the content. I am flattered that there are regular followers who are absolute expertss,  ......there are others who either dont know what a pannier is ....or perhaps worse know but dont like them!

 

So for the latter groups ....here is a potted history of the GWR Big tanks.

They were originally designed as 2-8-0s (42xx) hauling heavy coal trains on short trips from the South Wales pits down to the coastal ports. They proved so successful that additional locos were ordered and produced with the same 2-8-0 wheel configuration but larger bunkers (52xx). As is the way of the world their introduction coincided with a down turn in demand for SW Coal. A number were put into store. Others had their bunkers extended even more (necessitating the addition of rear pony wheels) so that they could be used for more regular freight duties......hence the 2-8-2 T 72xx 

 

 

Followers of ANTB will know that I was contemplating buying a 42xx...... I was advised by guys whose input I value to go for a HUGE TANK....the 72xx. I am very glad that I followed their advice......the 42xx and 52xx  rarely travelled out of South Wales and certainly not to my area. Whereas a number of 72xx were allocated to the Wolverhampton division of which, Granby is a part.

 

7233 is in the process of being re numbered to 7226 which was allocated to Oxley when converted in 1935 and was still there in 1947...... I am embarrassed to admit that until very recently I thought Oxley was in the South West rather than a suburb of Wolverhampton.

 

 

 

I am no expert, and have never seen one in real life, but to my mind Hornby have captured the look and feel of a very powerful locomotive....8F in BR/LMS terms. Brute strength springs to mind.......definitely HUGE.

The original release was part of the "Design Clever" series with a number of design defects ...moulded smoke box darts and hand rails, no brass bearings etc........most of these defects were corrected with later releases like this model.........note to Ebay bargain hunters....check the Hornby model# before bidding.

One un-corrected defect was the cab back wall treatment. The window grilles look rather clumsy and the bunker door has gone AWOL 
 

 

 

 

I do think the missing door is rather unfortunate and detracts from the model even applying the 3' rule.

It would be great if other 72xx owners/ could tell me how they have addressed the problem? I know Brassmasters provide a detailing kit (with door).....is it worth it?

I am fairly pragmatic about detail .................... on Granby performance is the acid test.

 

 

 

Initially it was disappointing. A crosshead slide bracket slipped from its mounting resulting in the crosshead coming out.....nasty clicking sound....but it was on the far side and I am deaf so it took a while for me to detect.....ie loco stopped.................hopefully thats all sorted now.

I must say was surprised how much I had to adjust my normal Lenz Standard CV settings .

 Above 10mph the loco is silky smooth....the motion is a joy to watch. Below 10 mph it was very erratic with frequent stops. I thought I had cleaned the wheels but when I re checked there were still traces of paint and grease.....performance improved but it was still unsatisfactory crawling (stumbling rather). The test track was the often photographed main line....clean, level and much used. I finally noticed it was stalling on track joins which I guess means a barely perceptible variation in level.........so I eased the keeper plate retaining screws and now she strolls along at notch 2 (say 2mph) and I have been able to reduce CV2 from 10(!) to 5

So whats the score.........the only design defect for me is the bunker door......from a performance aspect its not unusual to have to tinker with pick ups etc,this was a bit more than normal, but it now looks promising........like Len used to in Strictly.......I would give it a.......SEVEN    (no dance off though)

Next post....Weathering and how big a load can she haul?

Regards from Vancouver



  
Edited to correct Photo placement

 

Edited September 30, 2022 by john dew
29/9/2022 Photos

[M.I.B]

Like the description John!  

 

That's the downside/gamble of pre-ordering a loco, wagon or even a full size car - you  get a Mk1 and it has niggles, but often there is only one run made. ( especially pertinent to Hornby models)  

 

So do you gamble and hope a second batch is made, or go early for a Mk1 and secure one hoping that it's either 95+% what you want and that the few% is easily correctable?

 

Bachmann Thompson steel bodied teak brakes are a case in point - one run and now very hard to find.

 

My 72XX ran well on the quick big roundy roundy oval  I laid on newspaper in the old house.  Can't remember how many coaches but it was a fair few and better than some tender engines performed.

 

 

I can happily say Old house - full completion on it was this morning and my solicitor is either on his way to Brazil with my cash, or I am one more step closer on a 3 year odessy to own a farmstead/small holding big enough for the animals, cars, accumulated furniture and pictures, model railway items,  and the latest addition to the family: "Winston" an adorably friendly and cute 8 week old jet black kitten from a feral mother.

Edited October 20, 2017 by M.I.B

[GWR8700]

I have a 72xx too and encountered similar problems to yourself.  It really suffers from a lack of weight and initially I was having pick up issues too so when I get around to DCCing it I will try and fit a stay alive capacitor.  It's a nice model though, and a big improvement over the initial release.

  I remember you saying a while back that you were after an LNWR G2A, in terms of performance they are a league above the 72XX.

Edited October 21, 2017 by GWR8700

[john dew]

I have a 72xx too and encountered similar problems to yourself.  It really suffers from a lack of weight and initially I was having pick up issues too so when I get around to DCCing it I will try and fit a stay alive capacitor.  It's a nice model though, and a big improvement over the initial release.

  I remember you saying a while back that you were after an LNWR G2A, in terms of performance they are a league above the 72XX.

 

I had her running round and round yesterday hauling my long freight (normally hauled by the 28xx). She did very well....no stops and starts just a steady 15mph trundle hauling a 6' long mixed freight over slight gradients on a curve. I may well add some weight though although there is very little space in the boiler once a Lenz Standard and harness have been shoehorned in. 

 

You do have a long memory .....it must be years ago that I was talking about the ex LNWR 0-8-0.....one of the few that got away.....You really shouldnt tempt me.....I have just been "persuaded" to order a black Dean Goods to be re-liveried!

 

Cheers

 

John

[trw1089]

 

  ......there are others who either dont know what a pannier is ....or perhaps worse know but dont like them!

 

 

Hey, I resemble that remark!

 

The 72xx does look like a beast, without question. I have a G2a sitting idly here that could be better utilised. Sing out if you want it, just would need to be back dated.

 

 

I have also weathered one in LMS for a friend which came out quite nicely.