GRANBY JUNCTION - Shunting Siphons for the Up Parcels with a Manor!

[Guest 7007GreatWestern]

 If you look at the early poster photos of the great Maurice Earley for example you will see that it is very difficult to tell what livery a locos is bearing let alone whether it is lined or what colour it is!

 

Best Regards,

Andy.

 

 

Correction. That should read "If you look at the early post war photos of the great Maurice Earley...."

 

Andy

[john dew]

Hi Andy

 

Thank you so much for another very helpful and informative post. Not only helpful but also very diplomatic. I really appreciate you pointing out in such a gentle manner that I am suffering from a severe case of wood and trees  

 

Why on earth should I be fretting  about incorrect liveries when they are adorning locomotives that are in miraculously pristine condition so soon after the end of WWII    Particularly on my layout which specialises in dirt,grime and dark satanic mills. Granby is definitely not in sunny Devon.

 

Ok sack cloth and ashes moment over.........weathering locos is one of those things I know I should must do and in fairness I do have a few that are weathered.....mostly by Mr Bachmann ! I guess like many other modelers I have an innate reluctance to splatter dirty paint thinners over a model that may have cost me north of 120 GBP ( I refuse to think how much in Cdn $).

 

However your post was a very useful reality check......its time to stop procrastinating and do some experimenting. Little does she know, but tomorrow a very bright, shiny (but relatively inexpensive) Collet is about to be sprayed with Dullcote.......and thats just for starters. 

 

Best Wishes from Vancouver

 

 

John 

[mullie]

One other thing to consider, and I don't know your region, is just how much repainting was done during and after the war. In East Anglia, a number of wayside stations seem to still be in pre war livery and looking very tired (though unlikely at Granby I admit). My research suggests things were in a pretty poor state as labour shortages combined with the railways basically being bankrupt meant things were very difficult. It seems those returning from the war often looked elsewhere for work with better pay and conditions.

 

This meant things were often filthy and looked very tired, wagons especially looking very battered and opens running with bare wood but at the end of the day it is your layout and it is up to you. I like things looking tired and weathered, and use photographic evidence to justify it but it is not for everyone. Mainline trains would I'm sure have been better looked after I assume?

 

If you are worried about weathering and wrecking things pick up some cheap items of stock and experiment on coaches and wagons, if you use acrylics and powders the process is reversible 

 

This is a great layout, do what you feel is right for you.

 

Martyn

[Guest 7007GreatWestern]

Hello again John,

 

Just some more thoughts about painting and weathering. Yes, I understand your reticence to apply "filth" to expensive models. I think it's fair to say that weathering can actually ADD value to a model if done well, but detract value if done poorly. The best advice I can give is to practise and become confident in your own abilities on cheaper models first. Although I haven't delved into repainting yet I've acquired some Hornby Dublo bodies to practise on when the time comes. Why Hornby Dublo? Because being metal bodied they are easy to "strip", they are very robust and relatively inexpensive.

 

There are some helpful videos online videos which you may not be aware of. Brockwell Lane is a delightful GWR BLT with its own YouTube channel! The young man who has built it provides some very helpful tutorials on things such as painting and weathering. Here's an example featuring a Bachmann 57xx:-

 

 

There's also this very helpful video from Humbrol on the use of weathering powders:-

 

 

If airbrushing is more your thing you might find this informative:-

 

 

Hope this helps,

 

Andy.

[john dew]

Thanks for the advice and encouragement Mullie. One reason my pristine locos stand out is because all the buildings and most rolling stock are weathered.....even some of the carriages. I am quite comfortable weathering buildings and stock....to date though I have just stopped short with the locos

 

My weathering in the context of 1947-8 is undoubtedly understated. From memory it was very very grubby in the North right up to the early sixties. The fog (smog) was unbelievably filthy.  I would not want to replicate that faithfully.....you wouldnt be able to see anything! If I can have my locos subtly suggesting years of hard work I will be very happy

 

Andy the videos you attached will prove very useful......thank you again......lots of helpful tips to build up my confidence.

 

Regards to all

 

John 

[trw1089]

Thanks for the advice and encouragement Mullie. One reason my pristine locos stand out is because all the buildings and most rolling stock are weathered.....even some of the carriages. I am quite comfortable weathering buildings and stock....to date though I have just stopped short with the locos

 

My weathering in the context of 1947-8 is undoubtedly understated. From memory it was very very grubby in the North right up to the early sixties. The fog (smog) was unbelievably filthy.  I would not want to replicate that faithfully.....you wouldnt be able to see anything! If I can have my locos subtly suggesting years of hard work I will be very happy

 

Andy the videos you attached will prove very useful......thank you again......lots of helpful tips to build up my confidence.

 

Regards to all

 

John 

 

Well John, I would be more than happy to take a pristine GWR loco and turn it into something less glamorous!  Even happy to give it a coat of black if that makes you feel better!

 

Just to show that I can sometimes stray to areas other than my beloved Eastern Region:

 

 

 

I promise I would be gentle...

[john dew]

Hi Tony

 

They are absolutely stunning. If I can achieve anything half as good I will be a very happy camper. They look so realistic.....none of the splattered paint thinners I am so worried about. They are great as reference

 

I need to re read your how I did it.......I remember reading it and being very impressed. I would love to let you loose on one my locos and its extremely kind of you to offer. Sadly I think the postage rates to Oz from here are even more exorbitant than to the UK. In any event I have to get over my inhibitions and start doing it myself. I will really appreciate a full and frank critique from you and MIB, in particular, once the first trials are done and posted

 

Best wishes

 

John

[trw1089]

Thanks John

 

I think the two most important things I've learned over the years is:

 

A) always use a photo as reference. It may not be of the right loco in the right period, but have a reference of what you want the end result to look like.

 

B) it's not what you put on, but what you take off that can make the difference. Cleaning the loco down after a first bout of weathering leaves residues around the cracks and crevices just like a full sized version. Adding over the top of this sparingly can make a world of difference.

 

My basic technique follows that of Tim Shackleton and many others, airbrush various mixes of tan and blacks, more tan around the running gear, more black higher up. Then clean this down using thinners around the boiler and tender sides. Go back over with a light spray over the top of the boiler, then let dry. Take it to the work bench and use powders to add highlights and blend in areas. If you don't have an airbrush you can follow the same process all with powders or you can use the newer washes in the same way.

 

Hope that helps but feel free to give me a yell if you need any help or advice.

 

Cheers

Tony

[john dew]

Thanks Tony

 

I am sure I am going to find that very useful advice.......I particularly like the bit about " the important thing is what you take off"..............it makes a lot of sense........another case of less is more I guess!

 

Best Wishes

 

John

[john dew]

Not sure if other modellers are like me with far too many projects all on the go at the same time?

 

I try to keep my posts focused on one particular topic. This may give the impression that I have a very structured approach to modelling. If only that were true! In reality I flit around from project to project like a demented butterfly.

 

Since Christmas I have been trying to develop the routines that will bring two through coaches to Granby ready for my doubleheader video. The development led me into all sorts of by ways....the new track leading up to the turn table for instance.....from thence the need to add tender pick ups to my Manors.....an update to RR&Co invalidated  the admittedly cumbersome way I processed Turntable commands, took a week sorting that out. I started work on my Mark II coach boards and decided to paint my bright shiny Stanier Coach rooves. A chance remark on ANTB led me to get all harassed about my Hall liveries and that segued (naturally) into the realisation I really need to start weathering my locos

 

Good job I am retired and able to not take any of this too seriously!

 

Meantime for a complete change of pace I have actually been making progress on the building that will start to shield the fiddle yard

 

 

You may recall the plan was to modify the Scalescene Low Relief Warehouse and place it on the white space next to the Terraced houses

 

 

This proved quite difficult ....one unit was too small ....two units too long. The cutting and shutting I had to do was far too obvious Fortunately earlier this month John Wiffen introduced a new improved Warehouse with a much more flexible modular construction 

 

Here are a few shots of the progress made so far.

 

These are the main components to make one module......I will be building 4 of them for the front.

 

 

 

Each module consists of a base unit and a window unit. I want extra height...easy to add an extra window unit.

 

Typical Scalescene construction: two layers of card each with an added printed cover laminated together.

 

Lots of cutting.....lots of blades used already

 

 

 

 

Plinths and window sills give strength and depth. I have used Brassmasters windows in one warehouse but here printed film will be fine

 

The raw arch cuts look bad but its the camera angle. Will not be visible in situ

 

 

 

Two modules done....two to go. The individual units in each module have to be glued together on card buttresses and then the modules joined together with columns......more cutting

 

There are alternative options for the base unit. Solid brick wall, large window, full length arched doors or a single oversize door.

 

Hope I havent confused anyone with this sudden tack (or was it a gybe?)

 

Back to weathering and liveries shortly

 

Regards from Vancouver where the weather is mild and sunny!

 

John

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by john dew
25/10/22 Photos

[St Enodoc]

Not sure if other modellers are like me with far too many projects all on the go at the same time?

 

I try to keep my posts focused on one particular topic. This may give the impression that I have a very structured approach to modelling. If only that were true! In reality I flit around from project to project like a demented butterfly.

 

Since Christmas I have been trying to develop the routines that will bring two through coaches to Granby ready for my doubleheader video. The development led me into all sorts of by ways....the new track leading up to the turn table for instance.....from thence the need to add tender pick ups to my Manors.....an update to RR&Co invalidated  the admittedly cumbersome way I processed Turntable commands, took a week sorting that out. I started work on my Mark II coach boards and decided to paint my bright shiny Stanier Coach rooves. A chance remark on ANTB led me to get all harassed about my Hall liveries and that segued (naturally) into the realisation I really need to start weathering my locos

 

Good job I am retired and able to not take any of this too seriously!

 

Meantime for a complete change of pace I have actually been making progress on the building that will start to shield the fiddle yard

 

2 Storage.jpg

 

You may recall the plan was to modify the Scalescene Low Relief Warehouse and place it on the white space next to the Terraced houses

 

3 Bridge Site.jpg

 

This proved quite difficult ....one unit was too small ....two units too long. The cutting and shutting I had to do was far too obvious Fortunately earlier this month John Wiffen introduced a new improved Warehouse with a much more flexible modular construction 

 

Here are a few shots of the progress made so far.

 

These are the main components to make one module......I will be building 4 of them for the front.

 

1 Mill.jpg

 

Each module consists of a base unit and a window unit. I want extra height...easy to add an extra window unit.

 

Typical Scalescene construction: two layers of card each with an added printed cover laminated together.

 

Lots of cutting.....lots of blades used already

 

2 Mill.jpg

 

Plinths and window sills give strength and depth. I have used Brassmasters windows in one warehouse but here printed film will be fine

 

The raw arch cuts look bad but its the camera angle. Will not be visible in situ

.

3 Mill.jpg

 

Two modules done....two to go. The individual units in each module have to be glued together on card buttresses and then the modules joined together with columns......more cutting

 

There are alternative options for the base unit. Solid brick wall, large window, full length arched doors or a single oversize door.

 

Hope I havent confused anyone with this sudden tack (or was it a gybe?)

 

Back to weathering and liveries shortly

 

Regards from Vancouver where the weather is mild and sunny!

 

John

Looking good John. As long as you don't broach you'll be OK.

[john dew]

Been there ...done that....more than once!

 

Cheers

[john dew]

Had an up and down week with my Scalescene project......will post about it later.

 

To break the monotony of all the cutting and glueing I took time off each day to sort out the tenders on the Halls and I made a start to my weathering campaign on the Collett.

 

Here is a before......its not actually out of the box it must be 4-5 years old. But its always been unnaturally shiny

 

 

 

Its always been a very reliable runner....never felt the need to add tender pick ups which I do to most locos.....but could hardly pull its own weight so its rarely used and thus never picked up that much handled patina.

 

So here is the after.

 

 

 

Do let me know what you think.

 

I suspect I overdid the rust/brown on the tender but I cant believe that an ex ROD tender could ever look as pristine as in the first shot.

 

It has been a useful learning experience.....I just used Vallejo washes and some flat black and grey. Weathering powders are winging their way from Liverpool. Next on the list a couple of Panniers and the 28xx......that should be fun

 

Cheers from Vancouver where I believe it is about to snow again

 

John

Edited October 26, 2022 by john dew
25/10/22 Photos

[john dew]

Oops

 

I forgot to mention I have recently added a lot of lead so it will now pull a reasonable load up a gradient......all it needs now are etched plates and perhaps some powder

[john dew]

 

Thanks for the likes guys

 

Just to prove I can multi task (however ineptly) here is the Scalescene warehouse update

 

I am building 4 modules. Each module contains 3 sub units.

A door unit, window unit and a second optional window unit that I am adding

The base unit is glued to the interior buttresses as shown below

 

 

A ledge is glued to the top of the door unit followed by the first window unit

 

 

Setting three relatively small laminated units up like this sure exposes any cutting/glueing errors which I suspect know will haunt me later on http://yourmodelrailway.net/images/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

The modules are then glued to columns made of 5 sections of 2mm heavy card laminated together.

Here is my column factory

 

 

 

As you can see the column template only allows for the default door + window unit. Mine needed to be longer.
The instructions suggest constructing two separate columns......a regular length as per the template to which is added an extension .......joined together with a strengthening fillet in the centre. I decided to cut full length columns for greater strength and to  try and ensure smooth surfaces on all four sides. I used the cutting marks on the template to measure out the extension.

Despite taking all manner of precautions I  always have problems ensuring four totally smooth surfaces on these laminated columns. I am guaranteed two and I ensure the third by assembling and clamping an a flat surface.......and hoping I can conceal the inevitably uneven fourth http://yourmodelrailway.net/images/emoticons/icon_eek.gif  There looks to be a particularly bad one below but its partly the camera....I hope

So having cut and laminated 5 columns the next job is to apply the cover layers

 

 

The final touch is to attach 1mm card wrapped in black paper to simulate a drain pipe. 

Next step is line up a column and glue to a module.

 

 

 

Not a happy camper! The column is about 2mm short. It aligns perfectly with the default layout of Door + Window unit but does not align with the second window unit

 

 

 

The work around was to glue a second extension cover layer as shown below....... 

 

 

 

 I guess I am getting very old and placid.......there were hardly any choice words......just a painful reminder that when doing a new build its better to do one sub unit at a time rather than a mass build........just one column would have revealed the problem!

John specifies 2mm approx  for heavy card and 1mm approx.for medium card. I use mill board..... its cheaper and easier to cut than mat board (UK mounting board).  Heavy Millboard is exactly 2mm but the medium is about 1.2 mm. Most times (and I have built lots of kits) its not an issue but in this instance I guess it was. The problem with building largish units like this is that a minor "no worries" discrepancy on one unit accumulates to the extent that it becomes very noticeable!

So finally here we have all 4 units butt jointed to the 5 columns.


Floors and sides need to be added which hopefully will give it a lot more stability. Right now its quite flimsy....I had hope to photo it propped up in situ but didnt want to risk it

 

 

 

I am not a fan of butt joints.....laying a column over the modules as in the old warehouse kit creates far more stability and hides a load of errors.

In fairness the default unit consists of just 2 modules x 2 sub units.........this is three times bigger 4 modules x 3 sub units....... I have perhaps been a bit ambitious........time will tell! 

 

Finally to brighten your day (or evening)

 

The temperature has dropped but the forecast snow has held off....instead a beautiful crisp sunny day in the park

 

 

 

Very Canadian
 

Edited October 26, 2022 by john dew
25/10/22

[Guest 7007GreatWestern]

Here is a before......its not actually out of the box it must be 4-5 years old. But its always been unnaturally shiny

 

13 Collett.jpg

 

Its always been a very reliable runner....never felt the need to add tender pick ups which I do to most locos.....but could hardly pull its own weight so its rarely used and thus never picked up that much handled patina.

 

So here is the after.

 

12 Collett W.jpg

 

Do let me know what you think.

 

 

John

 

Hello John,

 

The weathered Collett Good looks good to me. I particularly like the "wiped over" look on the green paintwork. If I had any criticism at all, maybe you should also tone down the tyres and spokes on the driving wheels?

 

I have found an excellent on-line reference for weathering of locos:-

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/64215236@N03/albums/72157626959912923

 

The above is a link to the outstanding Gerald T. Robinson album of colour photos of Western Region steam, mainly in the 50s and 60s. Locos range from ex-works to work-worn to abjectly filthy! I hope you find this useful.

 

Best Regards,

 

Andy.

[john dew]

Hi Andy

 

So glad you approve of the Collett..........you are of course quite right about the driving wheels.......I am afraid I kept well clear of them for this initial attempt!

 

The link you sent is absolutely brilliant......many thanks. I can see exactly what Tony meant when he told me to make sure I always had a photo in front of me when weathering....good advice.

 

The photos are superb and so many contrasts. There are Counties which are great models for very light weathering and a rusted pannier that looks as though it has just come a war zone.......a wonderful resource.....thank you again

 

Best Wishes

 

John

[trw1089]

Hi John

 

The Scalescenes work is looking very good, as is the Collett. The boiler and tender sides look nice and shiny with some good grime in the crevices.

 

With the tender chassis, I agree about the rust, as typically, locos in regular workings would not show bright signs of rust as there was always a lot of oil flinging around which tended to stop rust from getting out of hand. The tan colour you see in the pictures is typically brake dust and ballast dust stuck on to the oil, and the powders you are getting might help tone that down a little.

 

Don't be afraid to go over things again, or clean some stuff off and put more on. Locos weathered gradually and different layers can help represent that. The mix of washes and powders over the top would do a good job of that I reckon. Great stuff all the same!

 

Cheers

Tony

[john dew]

Thanks Tony that's both very helpful and re-assuring. I will post a second revised " after " when the powders arrive

 

The next job is a couple of panniers. I was going to use your splendid Jinty as a model......but you are excused from commenting on a pannier in case it makes you feel poorly!

 

Best wishes

 

John

[john dew]

A lot of progress made this past week

I have added flooring to the front section and it is now far more stable.

The instructions specify individual floor be cut for each module which are  subsequently joined together with support tabs.

I thought it would be more stable if I cut the floors in continuous lengths for all four modules

This is the lower floor being fitted

 

 

 

I double laminated this floor and its glued lower than the plan because, as you will soon see, it will rest on a piece of 1/2" ply  that hangs over some of the storage sidings

 

 

These are floorboard overlays being set up. I dont normally bother with interior detail but in this case there will be loads of skylights on the roof and windows all round .....so I will finish the top floor

Fortunately I measured the floors from the completed front section rather than the individual templates. You can see a 2mm gap above.....which would, of course, have accumulated with each module!!

The next shot is of the underside and the joist template

 

 

The joists are 2 x 2 mm card laminated together......4 joists per module  16 joists per floor.

4 floors........64 joists     128 pieces of 2mm card..........the mind boggles. I compromised with just three floors ........double laminated the base floor and only 8 joists on the centre floor.

Because of the length I inserted a couple of interior walls. Its now solid as a rock and thats without sides or back
 
Here is the unit roughly in place on its base over the sidings

 

 

 

 

The next job is to produce 2 sides each of one module and a back of four modules. The unit can be seen from all four sides so all the modules will have to follow the same process as the front except they have to be 2 3/8" shorter

The top floor seems to be sagging but that should be corrected (I hope) when the sides are attached

 

 

 

 

I havent made up my mind about the space.....I may build a low relief pub and either put it there or shuffle the terraced house up and put the pub next to the shops.

There is a lot more to do before I worry about that! First job tomorrow is to run a few trains.......round and round to make absolutely certain my clearances are good.......the spaces between a couple of sidings are very narrow and I have a wafer thin support which seems ok .....but better safe than sorry

Best wishes from Vancouver..........where the weather has regressed since my last post

 

John
 

[Mallard60022]

That is one tasty building John and it looks like the snow is going to last!

Phil

[john dew]

Thanks Phil

 

I am afraid you are right about the snow......they are forecasting up to 12`` tonight. Its causing chaos with the commutors we are not used to this in lotusland.........its even beaten the 1949 record.....not that I was here then!

 

Cheers

 

John

[nickwood]

I love seeing large Scalescenes structures being made by one of the masters of the art. You seem to take them in your stride John.

 

Pleased to see you've taken the plunge into applying the grunge. I think that ROD tender might not be too rusty, just too orange (maybe it's the lighting). Trying using a dark brown weathering powders for old rust and a light brown (sparingly) for newer rust. Avoid most of the colours that call themselves rust as they are just too orange.

 

You'll be building whitemetal / brass kits next

[john dew]

Thanks Nick.........I find I am more comfortable with static objects however large......mistakes are easy to conceal

 

On the other hand rolling stock is supposed to live up to its name!

 

Thanks for the weathering advice.......the orange warning is one I will heed in future

 

Best wishes

 

John

[john dew]

Thanks for all the likes etc. Your enthusiasm is very encouraging.....this isnt the most riveting subject 

 

I have got rather behind with my updates........the last couple of weeks has been what I call " in the trenches" mode.  .......lots of cutting and pasting to the exclusion of any other modelling or even operating.........theres a new year resolution in the bin.

 

In fairness management have pointed out the short lease on the kitchen table has expired.

In consequence I became too enthusiastic with the task....sitting too long doing repetitive cutting is not recommended for pensioners with back problems. Enforced bed rest delayed the project somewhat and inspired further rebukes from management........sometimes one cant win!.

First job was to fit the sides. They are a single module wide but have to be reduced in height because the unit overhangs the storage yard. It a good illustration of the kits versatility. I used one full window unit (2 rows), cut a second unit down to one row and chopped 3/4" off a plain base unit. I made the construction simpler by eliminating the sub assemblies and mounted the cutting templates (carefully!) on to a single base card rather than joining 3 separate base cards as I did at the front.

 

 

Next step .....the roof. The instructions call for 4 separate roof units which are then butt joined together. I preferred to cut one unit measured to fit the entire length.....thus allowing for the dimensionall discrepancies created by me using mill board. It is also easier to fit and more robust

Here is the roof being cut out

 

 

 
The cut outs are for 3 North Lights and a Skylight. You can also see the notches cut out to accommodate the columns.

4mm Joists were added for the entire length making the sub assembly quite rigid

 

I dont think individual roof units would have worked at all well.

The shot above shows the back in place but in reality the back is closed in after the roof is fitted
 

 

As with the sides, each module is a single piece of base card sandwiched between columns. The viewer will see very little of the lower section because I am going to scratch build a boiler house on the module with the internal brick


Next job making the North Lights......here is the assembly line

 

I made a lot of these for the Engine Shed and this is definitely an improved design. Its still very fiddly, as you can see! A good tip is to bend the roof unit into shape immediately after scoring the bend line and before cutting out the window apertures. Rather than using a marker pen on the cut surfaces I painted them out in mid gray......making any over paint less obvious

The woodwork prints out as pale silvery grey. I wanted it to have some relationship with the green doors at ground level so I washed with diluted green rather than proper painting because I wanted to keep the printed detail. Its a bit crude right now but weathering should improve the look.

 

 

I am going to add a plant room/lift house behind the skylight.

A Hipped skylight assembly is a third roof window option. It is a very flexible kit .....all sorts of choices. You could just leave the roof plain if you wish.

 

 

 

 

 

Cruel closeup  but a reminder of the problem I have with the front columns being 2mm too short..........fortunately I have devised a cunning plan which will level everything before I start installing the parapets later today

 

Best wishes from a sunny but cold Vancouver.........Storm Doris doesnt sound too good for you guys

 

John