GRANBY JUNCTION - Shunting Siphons for the Up Parcels with a Manor!

[The Fatadder]

 

Its bright and sunny here and -7o which is super cold for us. We are only 15 minutes drive from the local ski mountains but are about 400' below the snow line so we get snow on the ground quite infrequently......mostly its rain......in quantity!

 

Best wishes

 

John

I remember Vancouver in winter, always raining when ever I headed down there.

 

And you could tell people from Vancouver driving when they reached Whistler, usually by the taleback behind them the real locals used to tell me!.

I do miss my winter living in BC, one day I would love to move back!

 

back on topic, those roof boards make a big difference, really makes a difference to an express.

[john dew]

Thanks Rich.......glad you like the boards.

 

Vancouverites driving in the rare occasional snowfall are a constant source of amusement to the rest of Canada. On a slow day the story has lead the National news on CBC! Fortunately we have an ancient (like its owner) but reliable Honda 4x4 to cope with the steep hill on which we live.

 

Kind Regards

 

John

[john dew]

Wishing you a very merry Christmas and a happy and healthy New Year

 

Thanks again to all who have ticked assorted boxes or posted comments throughout the year. As I have written before its incredibly encouraging and morale boosting.

 

Well for what is probably the final post of the year I am afraid there are no carefully crafted shots of Gorgeous Green Locomotives and certainly no videos........the reason being I finally decided to do some much needed track work

 

The xover at the South end of Granby has been an ongoing problem......I inadvertently set up the tortoise so it was a millimetre or less too far over so the switch blade just failed to mate with the stock rail. Applying a little pressure to remedy this eventually sheered the little tab that connects to the tie bar. Repairs with super glue (welcome to bodgers junction) were less than ideal......resulting in a very limited Up service from Platform 6.

 

Finally enough was enough:

 

 

 

.

 

Fortunately I was able to use the existing tortoise rather than fit yet another surface mount

 

 

All done and dusted apart from ballast and a saw cut

 

The second venture was rather more radical........ the down exit from the Storage Yard

 

 

Tucked away in the corner behind the Scalescene Warehouse is an old Fleischman Turntable

 

 

Its a bit Heath Robinson but I managed to get this to work with DCC and RR &Co. so rather than just roundy roundys I can run an automated out and back service using the same loco.

 

The problem is access to the turntable is via this 3 way point

 

 

My experience with 3 ways has not been a happy one. They are great space savers but I have problems consistently reversing Tender Locos through them....particularly the centre road. It may be due to some extent to my dodgy track laying  but I wouldnt use them again

 

So the bullet was finally bitten and out came the 3 way to be replaced by two points set further back into the yard

 

 

Big improvement all round. Totally reliable entry and exit to the TT. Two locos can stand in the entry and exit roads and the third siding ( carriage siding/headshunt ) can now accommodate six carriages so I can run trains to and from London.

 

Dont know why I didnt do this in the first place. It means I can now go ahead and confidently build the bridge to conceal the yard exit.......which was supposed to be the main winter project.

 

Once again thank you for following my random scribbling me and providing so much encouragement 

 

PS Still lots of snow......must be 2 feet at least. Digging out the driveway is a frequent and challenging task for this old age pensioner.....at least I dont have to go to work though.......commuting is a nightmare.

 

 

 

[Mikkel]

Hi John, looks like some very useful trackwork you've done there. I look forward to seeing those 6-coach London trains.

 

Merry christmas to you too. I wih the snow could be more equally distributed, I wouldn't mind a bit of it here (within limits!).

[The Stationmaster]

Compliments of the season to you too John.

[john dew]

Thank you gentlemen for all your likes and good wishes. I hope you all enjoyed a merry festive season and that Santa was suitably kind. Christmas may be a little delayed at Chateau Dew......the two Hattons 14xxs I ordered are at the back of the list and I doubt if they will arrive in Vancouver until March. In the interests of accuracy.....mention of a 14xx would seem to demand that .....they are actually  a 48xx to be renumbered and a 58xx.

 

While tottering on the edge of controversy I should perhaps also admit to looking forward to the arrival at Granby of a Dean Goods. One that will smoothly pull a reasonable number of wagons without the loco obviously being pushed by a tender, whose wheels deposit rubber on my track! If it does this successfully I suspect I will be able to forgive the myriad of faults and omissions that have been pointed out .......at considerable length......on the Dean thread.

 

Reverting to Santa it now seems evident that I will not be receiving any updated Manors or Moguls ithis Christmas or indeed in 2018.....should I still be here.

 

As I just remarked on ANTB...."where a Manor seldom offends"  ......this old girl can expect a few more years service on Granby

 

 

 

 

I guess I secretly hoped that spending a week upgrading the decoders and adding tender pickups to Bradley Manor and her sister Broome Manor might influence Bachmann's announcement (which was of course decided months ago!)

 

Here is Broome Manor crawling slowly but gracefully on to the refurbished Turntable in the Storage yard

 

 

 

 

 

For those interested in Vancouver's weather .....its still very cold and the snow lingers on. Unlike my neighbour John Flan, over 1100 miles to the south , we are not used to this weather in lotusland.

 

The city normally uses 1000 tons of salt throughout the winter. They used 7000 tons in December alone.

 

Regards to all

 

John

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by john dew
25/10/22 Photos

[GWR8700]

Shame about the Mogul and Manor, apologies if you've already written about it but how did you DCC the split chassis loco's? There's a new post-war Hall to look forward to at least.   Will the 1P or Webb Coal Tank be forming part of your LMS fleet?

Edited January 8, 2017 by GWR8700

[john dew]

Shame about the Mogul and Manor, apologies if you've already written about it but how did you DCC the split chassis loco's? There's a new post-war Hall to look forward to at least.   Will the 1P or Webb Coal Tank be forming part of your LMS fleet?

 

Its a few years since I last chipped a split chassis. I found the best method was to solder the pick up feeds (red and black) to little slivers of circuit board which are only live on one side and these were wedged between the chassis. Typically they had to be filed down so that they were a tight fit without distorting the mated chassis. I used liberal amounts of nail varnish as insulation. I "talked" a friend in France though the process on another forum. If need be I can try and dig out the link.

 

I dont think I will be going for another Bachmann Hall for a while.....Livery apart I have never found them to be particularly smooth or indeed powerful in operation.......I may well be tempted by a Grange in lieu of a Manor though.

 

Despite the price increase, a Webb Coal Tank will indeed be operating out of Granby Junction......Rhyl sounds a likely destination.....I have a few connections with that area....albeit many many years ago

 

Kind Regards

 

John

[gwrrob]

I will be John as I find them very good for my requirements.The lining however is abhorrent and has to go.

 

 

 

I dont think I will be going for another Bachmann Hall for a while.....Livery apart I have never found them to be particularly smooth or indeed powerful in operation.......I may well be tempted by a Grange in lieu of a Manor though.

 

[St Enodoc]

Its a few years since I last chipped a split chassis. I found the best method was to solder the pick up feeds (red and black) to little slivers of circuit board which are only live on one side and these were wedged between the chassis. Typically they had to be filed down so that they were a tight fit without distorting the mated chassis. I used liberal amounts of nail varnish as insulation. I "talked" a friend in France though the process on another forum. If need be I can try and dig out the link.

 

I dont think I will be going for another Bachmann Hall for a while.....Livery apart I have never found them to be particularly smooth or indeed powerful in operation.......I may well be tempted by a Grange in lieu of a Manor though.

 

Despite the price increase, a Webb Coal Tank will indeed be operating out of Granby Junction......Rhyl sounds a likely destination.....I have a few connections with that area....albeit many many years ago

 

Kind Regards

 

John

That's how I do it too John.

 

The other thing is getting the motor isolated from the split chassis. I've found that by slackening off the clamping screws, I can ease the back of the chassis apart enough to cut off the brass wipers and solder very fine wire on to the motor terminals.

[john dew]

I will be John as I find them very good for my requirements.The lining however is abhorrent and has to go.

 

Hi Robin

 

Maybe I have just been unlucky with my Halls. They all have a rather jerky motion which I have not been able to resolve. Its not so bad as to make them non runners but just sufficiently noticeable to offend.

 

I have got myself into a right mess with my Hall liveries......they are all lined as bought (one even below the waterline like the new release) and, over the years, I laboriously replaced the original "Great Western" and possibly a Shirt Button with G crest W.  From the thread on ANTB I now realise that is totally unrealistic for 1947-8..........one perhaps but not four! 

 

I guess the solution will be to replace one G crest W  with "British Railways" in the initial script.....I have done this with a Collet and I quite like it as a very obvious time stamp. Realistically though I should try and remove the lining from a couple and spray one black.......not looking forward to that at all.

 

There is always something new to discover in this hobby!

 

Kind Regards

 

John

[M.I.B]

John,

 

It's a shame you aren't round the corner,otherwise I would airbrush repaint the halls for you.  As you know from NC, I am well practiced in the arts of "GW Black" and unlined GW engines.

 

My next two, Monty Castle and St Andy will get airbrushed with late GWR green with no lining when I get home.

 

And in return, all I would ask is that you paint some of my figures - you do such a great job of that, compared to my clumsiness.

[Guest 7007GreatWestern]

 

 

Maybe I have just been unlucky with my Halls. They all have a rather jerky motion which I have not been able to resolve. 

 

 

 

Hello John,

 

This is my first post on your thread so I'd just like to say how much I've enjoyed Granby. It's a wonderful layout.

 

Regarding your Bachmann Halls; I have eight of them which I am in the process of converting to DCC. Running qualities varied from "very good indeed" to "pretty awful" in their original DC configuration. After a significant number of hours fiddling, cursing and swearing I have managed to get very good running out of most of them. I'm posting this in case it is useful to you.

 

I've recently posted the following about the difficulties of even getting a decoder into these locos:-

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/117781-small-decoder-recommendations/?p=2537455

 

Once a decoder is in situ and you can get the body back on (a challenge in itself) the next job is to get the confounded thing to run smoothly. I make no claim to be any kind of expert but have found the following to be the nearest thing to a "magic formula" I have found yet.

 

1. I use the Zimo MX600R decoder. An inexpensive decoder that offers enormous scope for tweaking.......

 

The tweaks themselves?

 

2. The Bachmann Hall doesn't seem to like strong Load Compensation (Back-EMF). This is set in CV58. I find that a value of 128 or less (255 is maximum) helps.

3. I set CV9 to value 99 (High EMF sample rate; long EMF sample time).

4. I set CV56 to value 33. Don't ask me what this does. It just seems to work.

 

These decoder tweaks produce the best running I have yet found with this chassis. You are however, not out of the woods at this point! You next have to find and eradicate ALL binding and/or fouling or you get a pronounced "fore-and-aft" surging of the loco once per wheel revolution. 

 

I have found the following to be the most common causes:-

 

-Overtightening of crankpins.

-Insufficient flexibility in coupling rod "knuckle" joint

-Vacuum pump spindle rubbing against inside face of pump.

-Driving wheel flanges touching inside face of brake blocks.

-Driving wheels moving on axles causing slight loss of quartering.

 

Of particular interest are the slidebars. Bachmann provide a nice plastic bracket which holds them in situ (completely absent on the Hornby Grange!). Unfortunately the lower inside edge of the crosshead often catches on the lower  arm of the bracket. Also check that each pair of sliderbars are aligned with respect to one another. If they are not the crosshead will twist as it travels along the bars causing a very slight binding which can affect running.

 

I know that many people swear by removing capacitors to improve decoder performance and eliminate choppy running. I did so to several of mine but in no case did it solve the problem. 

 

I have spent FAR more time trying to get my Bachmann Halls to run well that any other RTR model. In my experience it can be done, but you do need that patience of a Saint (pun intended!).

 

Andy.

[john dew]

Hi Andy

 

Thanks for the nice comments about Granby and for such an informative and useful post.

 

I use RR&Co where I really only have to worry about Cvs 2 5 and 6 so I cant comment on the Cv settings you mentioned. I do agree with you about the lack of space for decoders in the Bachmann Hall body. If they are not supplied I generally add tender pickups so my decoders (Lenz Standard) invariably finish up in the tender.

 

I am pretty certain my running problems are mechanical. I am notoriously un mechanical so I tend to poke around rather timidly .....terrified I will break something or at least make matters worse! .Your check list will be invaluable......I will let you know how I get on now that I have structure to work off

 

Kind Regards

 

John

[trw1089]

My Bachmann split frame V2 is the same John, not a smooth runner at all. To be honest, if you solve the mechanical issues, you won't need to worry about the CV fiddling, well not much anyway. A split frame J39 was a very bad runner until I sorted the mechanical issues, now it runs beautifully. So it's not just the curse of the Great Western, but I'm sure that has a lot to do with it!

 

Cheers

Tony

[john dew]

Hi Tony

 

Good to hear from you. I have standardized on Lenz decoders and I get very consistent performance from them......I have no doubt my Hall problems are mechanical.**.......the other problem being that I am not...mechanical.......hence my delight at Andy's post

 

 

**I have livery problems with them as well but that's another story

 

Best wishes

[Guest 7007GreatWestern]

Hi Andy

 

I am pretty certain my running problems are mechanical. I am notoriously un mechanical so I tend to poke around rather timidly .....terrified I will break something or at least make matters worse! .Your check list will be invaluable......I will let you know how I get on now that I have structure to work off

 

Kind Regards

 

John

 

Hello again John,

 

If you do want to have a go at the mechanics you may be interested in the approach I use. Well, more accurately the approach I borrowed from Tony Wright in his excellent Loco Kit building DVDs by ActivityMedia. First I remove the connecting rods. Be very careful when removing the one on the Driver's side as it is very easy to snap the vacuum pump spindle. Then I remove the coupling rods, leaving the driving wheels in situ. I then place the mechanism on a rolling road. When power is applied the motor is driving the central driving axle via the gears and nothing else is moving. There is no point adding back the rest of the motion until this most basic configuration is running smoothly. Believe it or not one of my Bachmann Halls won't even run smoothly even in that state!

 

 

Once the basic motor/gears/central axle configuration is running OK I replace the coupling rods. Make sure these flex in both planes but don't apply much pressure as you risk snapping the very fragile rivet that holds the two halves together. Refitting the crankpins is a bit of a knack. If you over tighten the motion will sometimes bind. If you under tighten the crankpins work loose when the loco is moving. Only when the 'coupling rods only" configuration is running sweetly do I then add the connecting rods.

 

Essential tools for the job are a rolling road, 12BA nut spinner, a significant gap in one's diary and some reason for a penance of religious gravity!

 

Failing that the Hornby Hall has a good reputation for running. I have one and it runs like honey down the back of a spoon! Decoder fitting takes 5 minutes versus 4 hours for a Bachmann Hall. However, you are then faced with moulded one handrails, smokebox dart, outside steam pipes and brake ejector. Also, you miss out on the (usually excellent) paint finish on the Bachmann models. I did once look into fitting a Bachmann body on the Hornby chassis. Unfortunately, to paraphrase the late Steve Jobs there's a "bag of pain" to be had going down that route.....

 

Best Regards,

 

Andy.

[john dew]

Hi Andy

 

I should have mentioned that one of my 4 Halls is the Hornby "Adderley Hall" . I totally agree with your comments about her running qualities.....smooth as silk or even honey! I can live with the lack of detail.....its a layout loco after all......I am becoming rather fond of that description. Its pulling power isnt great up a gradient but I think adding some lead will help. I definitely need more Black GWR locos on Granby for my time period........so a Black Adderley (or new name) solves the sickly Green paint job.

 

MIB has kindly offered to give me some long distance painting advice  So a loco that originated in China and came to Canada via Liverpool is going to be repainted based on advice from Afghanistan!

 

Thank you for the helpful advice and links to help me correct my Bachmann Hall running problems........it all looks a bit daunting but once I have finished a few items lingering on my allegedly urgent to do Iist I will make a start I promise

 

Best Wishes

 

John

[trw1089]

John

 

If I can be of assistance with the painting lark too, just give me a hoy. 

 

Cheers

Tony

[Guest 7007GreatWestern]

Hi John,

 

I have a question for you if I may? I've seen your excellent videos on YouTube and see that you've managed to achieve a goal I hope to reach one day, namely automatic running. I know that you use RR&Co to do that. I see that you're also standardised on Lenz decoders. Lenz decoders of course support Lenz Automatic Brake Control (ABC) which has potential to be used in automatic operation. So my question is, do you have ABC switched on when RR&Co is controlling in a train? Do the two work in concert? Or is RR&Co handling braking and acceleration entirely itself?

 

I have standardised on Lenz and Zimo decoders for my fleet (both support Lenz ABC). The attraction of ABC for me is that it offers the potential for "block sections" to protect stationary trains exactly like on the real railway.

 

Regarding your Bachmann Halls, my advice is to take it slowly. Haste is the enemy of progress with work that fiddly and fragile. I got a rather painful reminder of that today. My current project is to fit the Brassmasters 'Modified Hall' detailing kit to one of said locomotives. It's a job that requires a fair amount of savage butchery to the front running plate and bogie of the locomotive. Unfortunately because I was rushing I managed to impale my thumb on the business end of a Swann Morton scalpel. Lesson duly learned......

 

Andy.

[john dew]

John

 

If I can be of assistance with the painting lark too, just give me a hoy. 

 

Cheers

Tony

 

Thanks Tony .......that is very kind of you

 

One tiny caveat.........there is no danger of Kinlet Hall suddenly appearing in Apple Green?

 

Cheers

 

John

[john dew]

Hi Andy

 

Hope your thumb is on the mend.

 

Slow and steady it is......sound advice. I have two separate issues with the Halls. Colour/ Livery and performance. I am going to do some research and devise a possible naming/livery strategy and post it with some photos. Regarding performance I think I will take a video and ask my elders (admittedly not many) and betters (plenty) to do an initial diagnosis.

 

I have never used Lenz ABC. so cant usefully comment on that option. For computor controlled automatic running the layout has to be divided into electrically isolated blocks (like the real thing) linked to an occupancy detection system (I use Lenz LB and LR 101s). Each block can have any number of stop, brake and speed markers. Train Controller calculates the momentum and acceleration for each individual loco based on its power capability and the weight it is hauling. When I eventually get around to making the video of the 8 coach double header I think you will find the slow build up of speed from a standing start very impressive.

 

Best wishes

 

John 

[trw1089]

Thanks Tony .......that is very kind of you

 

One tiny caveat.........there is no danger of Kinlet Hall suddenly appearing in Apple Green?

 

Cheers

 

John

That is a definite possibility, but I promise to remain true to prototype because at least it's not a pannier...

[john dew]

 

 

 

These are my four Halls that I have been chatting about recently.

 

Here are the key quotes from a discussion on ANTB where it became clear to me that laboriously (and in some cases obviously) changing the logos on all of them to G crest W was not a great idea

 

On 08/01/2017 at 09:17, BenL said:

You're quite right Rob. And while the Halls look wonderful in this livery, the research on postwar GWR Hall liveries I commissioned with STEAM and the NRM turned up no shots of 'original' Halls in postwar lined green - all the shots identified were either wartime black or postwar plain green. I've got the first volume of the Book of the Halls and that seems to show the same as far as I can tell. This book also gives you some clue about likely post war GWR liveries on particular Halls as it includes the service histories of each so you can see if a particular Hall had major work post mid-late 1945 when I think Halls started being painted plain green rather than black.

 

 

 

On 08/01/2017 at 09:52, 7007GreatWestern said:

Hi BenL,

 

I have found the following in "Great Western Halls & Modified Halls" by Laurence Waters (Pen & Sword):-

 

You say that authority to paint the Halls in lined green was given in mid 1947. According to Mr. Waters the first Modified Hall to receive G-emblem-W livery with lining was probably 6974 'Bryngwyn Hall' in November 1947 which was of course newly built at that time. Just three months (and nine Modified Halls) later, 6983 'Otterington Hall' was the first to receive "British Railways" tender lettering in Egyptian serif font. It would seem that the 'window of opportunity' for Collett Halls to receive the lined green postwar livery was very small indeed. Production of the Collett Halls ceased in 1943 of course so only locos going to Swindon for shopping in that brief three month period would have any chance of being so adorned.....

 

Andy

 

Granby is loosely based in very early 1948....on the cusp of nationalisation so to speak

 

I am by no means obsessed with detail but even for Granby it stretches the bounds of credibility that its entire allocation of Halls had all been to Swindon between November 1947 and February 1948! 

 

Here are some rough ideas that involve some repainting and re numbering. I suspect some of the tenders may be incorrect.....I am very vague about tenders  I would appreciate any suggestions/ comments that might prevent me from compounding my mistakes

 

 

 

 

4901 Adderley Hall  (Hornby Railroad)  built Dec 1928

 

To be painted Black......I only have two Black GWR locos on Granby (BR and re liveried) which is hardly enough for the time period

 

In the past I havent renamed/renumberd unless I had duplicates. But engraved plates look so much better that I plan to progressively phase them in. As I am repainting I thought I would rename 4901 to a loco that had some connection with the North West. 4905 Barton Hall and 4918 Dartington Hall were both built about the same time as 4901 and both were allocated to Chester in 1950.

 

 

 

 

4936 Kinlet Hall (Bachmann) built June 1929

 

Well I need to fix the tender.....I think its from an old defunct Hornby Castle!

 

This is a longer term project but if my first attempt at spraying is successfull with 4901 I think all

 Green with GWR on a smaller tender might be the answer........name suggestions would be welcome

 

 

 

 

5923 Colston Hall (Bachmann) built May 1933

 

Colston Hall was at Chester in 1950 so I think I should replace the G crest W with a shirt button and hope that some judicious weathering conceals all the marks

 

 

 

6988 Swithiland Hall (Bachmann) built March1948 and allocated to Weymouth

 

The loco of course is in BR livery I just removed the totem and replace it with G crest W. I am not overly worried about the lining except the fact it isnt on the Firebox

 

I could ignore geography and just remove the G crest W (what a waste!) replacing it with the provisional "British Railways" logo. I have done this once already on a Black Collet....and quite like it

 

Alternatively I could leave the tender and rename it to 6976 Graythwaite Hall (Oct 1947) or 6980 Llanrumney Hall (Nov 1947) ......both were allocated to Shrewsbury

 

 

 

I have dug up as much as I could find on the net but any other links or advice would be great.

 

 

Best wishes from Vancouver

 

 

In other news.......the snow has melted. Overnight we went from -5o to 10o........along with a wind warning, heavy rain warning and risk of flooding

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by john dew
25/10/22 Photos

[Guest 7007GreatWestern]

Hello again John,

 

I didn't realise that Granby is based in early 1948. Is it happens, that opens up a few more options for you.

 

I'll make reference to photos from Mr. Waters' excellent book on the Halls & Modified Halls once again (no connection to author or publisher other than satisfied customer)

 

4903 Astley Hall seen at Reading in March 1948 at the head of a freight attached to a 3000 gallon tender. Loco and tender appear to be in unlined green, especially likely since cab side plates have been removed and glass refitted. The livery is "GWR" not G-emblem-W. This would be a VERY easy conversion for your Adderley Hall. For ultra-authenticity file down the rivets and this tender was a flush riveted specimen. Conveniently, neither Adderley Hall nor Astley Hall had the fire iron tunnel on the fireman's side.

 

John, you say that you want some of your Halls to be black. Which black did you have in mind, GW wartime black or early BR? In case you don't know, Halls were generally painted unlined black during the war and towards the end of the conflict G-emblem-W was the logo applied. Most had the glazing removed from the cab sitesheet and a metal plate attached instead. This was a black-out measure intended to stop the glow of the firebox being seen by the Luftwaffe. Glazing was restored over the months/early years after the war. Also, Halls built during the war were not fitted with nameplates during the conflict. Mr. Waters' book shows 6941 Fillongley Hall and 6970 Whaddon Hall in 1945 and 1946 respectively both still without plates or glazing.

 

May I make a somewhat philosophical point here? I can see only one purpose to model railways: to give pleasure to the people who build and view them. If you like your Halls in the livery they are currently in, my advice would be to keep them that way! If you REALLY want to go for the authentic look of the post war period the blunt truth is that you would have to plaster nearly all you locos in obscuring weathering, soot deposits and grime. Due to chronic shortages of manpower in the early postwar period locos, especially freight and mixed traffic machines like Halls were usually indescribably filthy. The rare exceptions would be ex-works locos and the 1947 oil burners which seem to be pretty clean in most of the photos of them (probably for publicity purposes). If you look at the early poster photos of the great Maurice Earley for example you will see that it is very difficult to tell what livery a locos is bearing let alone whether it is lined or what colour it is!

 

Best Regards,

Andy.