Football Focus

[jonny777]

Whilst that is ideal, there are so many decisions that have a direct impact on the game at that time. For example, a player that dives in the penalty area, 'wins' a penalty and gets another sent off, will most likely change the pattern of the game. At this stage of the season that decision could make the difference between a European place, or more importantly relegation. Retrospective punishment works for a player ban, but changing a result retrospectively would have all sorts of potential nasty consequences...legal action etc.

 

 

You raise an interesting point here.

 

Lets suppose something similar to the Ashley Young incident happened on the last day of the season, and that both teams were in danger of relegation. If the team that were awarded a dodgy penalty, scored and won the match 1-0 and the losing side (who were down to 10 men after 15 minutes) were relegated due to this result, would they have a case that their relegation was unenforceable because it had been brought about by a blatant refereeing error?

 

It may be a contrived scenario, but how long before something like this occurs? After all, the Sheffield Utd v West Ham case has already gone down this road, albeit based on ineligible players, but it certainly caused the FA some concern for a time.

Edited April 10, 2012 by jonny777

[Claude_Dreyfus]

Well, tonight's result against Millwall has more or less confirmed relegation to League One. We have four games, and a maximum of 12 points left to play for. The only glimmer of hope is that Palace have nothing left to play for except pride, and I suspect the same will be the case for Derby County. Forest away is the last game of the season...I think it will be academic by that point.

 

Doncaster are next and anything less than a win on Saturday - along with Bristol City failing to pick up any points - and it will be a case of 'Goodnight' for the pair of us.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Claude_Dreyfus

[Trevellan]

Yep, West Ham doing what they are good at, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

It's an affliction which Spurs supporters have also had to endure over many years. Even Our Arry can't completely dispel the Tottenham ethos of mid-table mediocrity being an acceptable standard. Frankly, after that disgraceful 5-2 capitulation against Arsenal, the top four finish was always looking doubtful, especially with Chelsea and Newcastle now hitting their stride.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Trevellan

[Hobby]

Whilst that is ideal, there are so many decisions that have a direct impact on the game at that time. For example, a player that dives in the penalty area, 'wins' a penalty and gets another sent off, will most likely change the pattern of the game.

 

I think we're in agreement there, once the game has been stopped then use of the video evidence could be used, though my concern there is still the time element... I just wouldn't want it used if the game wasn't stopped... In the incident that caused this discussion the FA have agreed with the ref that it was a penalty though other pundits feel otherwise - obviously it could be seen both ways which makes the person who's job it would be to make that decision even more difficult, especially if they are under time constraints... Can of worms?

Edited April 11, 2012 by Hobby

[S.A.C Martin]

Sorry chaps, cynical me here. "Blatant refereeing error"?

 

No; no linesman who is in line with the striker - and ahead of the last defender, when the ball is played forward - gets that decision wrong.

 

No linesman with any modicum of common sense, whatever happens directly afterwards, gets that wrong.

 

The thing is, if I say what I have been thinking for nearly twenty years - that it's no coincidence that certain points get gained by certain clubs at particular times of the year - Christmas, Easter, even last day of the season - and that there is always a refereeing decision involved somewhere, then I'd be labeled a loon and put in the crazy house.

 

But it always seems far too coincidental that the team who always benefits ultimately plays in red, with black socks. Be it, a blatant penalty not given, a blatant dive not retrospectively punished (and the defender who was sent off doesn't get the red card rescinded - yeah, that's fair...) or - as I predicted seven months ago - run ins towards the end of the season which directly benefit one club over another in the challenge for the Premier League title.

 

This happens every year, and I don't know why we are surprised that it continues to happen.

 

---

 

In the real leagues, Sheffield United got a stonking victory last night to keep Charlton on their toes. My nerves, my fingernails, my god!

Edited April 11, 2012 by S.A.C Martin

[kevinlms]

It's an affliction which Spurs supporters have also had to endure over many years. Even Our Arry can't completely dispel the Tottenham ethos of mid-table mediocrity being an acceptable standard. Frankly, after that disgraceful 5-2 capitulation against Arsenal, the top four finish was always looking doubtful, especially with Chelsea and Newcastle now hitting their stride.

 

Chelsea 'hitting their stride'!!! Sadly, we're not doing anything much to challenge for the 4th spot, let alone 3rd place.

 

Although its not over yet, the way we're going shouldn't make any one shake in their boots. With only 5 matches left, we really have to win the remaining ones, especially against Arsenal at Highbury Emirates on the 21st. With other games against top clubs left (Liverpool & Newcastle), Chelsea will struggle on current form.

 

Kevin Martin

[Trevellan]

Maybe so Kevin, but Chelsea are doing a lot better now AVB has departed.

[oggy1953]

It's an affliction which Spurs supporters have also had to endure over many years. Even Our Arry can't completely dispel the Tottenham ethos of mid-table mediocrity being an acceptable standard. Frankly, after that disgraceful 5-2 capitulation against Arsenal, the top four finish was always looking doubtful, especially with Chelsea and Newcastle now hitting their stride.

Here Here Mate. I've been following them for over 50 years and apart from the 60s and early 70s its always been a case of 2 steps forward then 2 back. I've said many times on here, theres an easy way and theres a Tottenham way. Even when we had good sides in the 80s we were always prone to a silly result against weak opposition. This last capitulation , i must admit, caught me by surprise. I actualy thought we would crack it this year. Oh silly silly me. Back to normal.

[CUTLER2579]

Well done the FA for another very fair decision in not rescinding Shaun Derrys Red Card. :nono: :nono:

 

 

Come on you will expect fairness and justice to come out of Lancaster Gate next.

Still if we beat the Swans tonight who knows, we might just stay up,but I doubt it.

Regards,

A very Sarcastic QPR fan since 1956.

[jonny777]

Sorry chaps, cynical me here. "Blatant refereeing error"?

 

No; no linesman who is in line with the striker - and ahead of the last defender, when the ball is played forward - gets that decision wrong.

 

No linesman with any modicum of common sense, whatever happens directly afterwards, gets that wrong.

 

The thing is, if I say what I have been thinking for nearly twenty years - that it's no coincidence that certain points get gained by certain clubs at particular times of the year - Christmas, Easter, even last day of the season - and that there is always a refereeing decision involved somewhere, then I'd be labeled a loon and put in the crazy house.

 

But it always seems far too coincidental that the team who always benefits ultimately plays in red, with black socks. Be it, a blatant penalty not given, a blatant dive not retrospectively punished (and the defender who was sent off doesn't get the red card rescinded - yeah, that's fair...) or - as I predicted seven months ago - run ins towards the end of the season which directly benefit one club over another in the challenge for the Premier League title.

 

This happens every year, and I don't know why we are surprised that it continues to happen.

 

---

 

You are not the only one who has been thinking this, I agree with your conclusion.

 

The difficulty is trying to discover why. Is it just fear of upsetting a certain club or their manager, or is it because a voiciferous percentage of the authorities that run football are closet supporters of said club? I am pretty sure that a decent percentage of the media are, if not full time supporters, followers of that particular team.

 

I cannot believe that the FA is is any way fair, when a red card which should not have been given, (because the penalty should not have been awarded, because the player who went down in the box was so blatantly offside), was not rescinded. Wht should any player serve a ban because the official made a rather too glaring error to be believable?

 

The question as to whether someone committed a foul on an offside player by touching him feintly on the side of his ribs, does not come into the equation at all, because the ref ought to have awarded a free kick to QPR.

 

It is the ref and the linesman who should be banned - for sheer incompetence.

[Red Devil]

You are not the only one who has been thinking this, I agree with your conclusion.

 

The difficulty is trying to discover why. Is it just fear of upsetting a certain club or their manager, or is it because a voiciferous percentage of the authorities that run football are closet supporters of said club? I am pretty sure that a decent percentage of the media are, if not full time supporters, followers of that particular team.

 

I cannot believe that the FA is is any way fair, when a red card which should not have been given, (because the penalty should not have been awarded, because the player who went down in the box was so blatantly offside), was not rescinded. Wht should any player serve a ban because the official made a rather too glaring error to be believable?

 

The question as to whether someone committed a foul on an offside player by touching him feintly on the side of his ribs, does not come into the equation at all, because the ref ought to have awarded a free kick to QPR.

 

It is the ref and the linesman who should be banned - for sheer incompetence.

 

Dear me, I assume that these posts are a thinly veiled attack on Utd, forgive me if I'm wrong but that's the way it reads, have a look at this,

 

http://www.debatable...ions.com/tables

 

Failing that, perhaps it's time for some 9/11 style conspiracy theories and tinfoil hats time.............

 

As to media bias, well think you'll find that Liverpool have that stiched up, the only maistream ex United pundits are Neville (who even some of my City supporting mates admit talks sense most of the time) recently, Keane, and occasionally Dwight Yorke. Liverpool, Hansen, Lawrenson, McManaman, Collymore, Jamie Redknapp, Jim Beglin, Phil Thompson, Alvin Martin (Liverpool fan) Mick Quinn (Liverpool fan), Ray Houghton etc etc.

 

How do Utd manage to get all these 'bent' desicions then? Head of the FA David Bernstein, well known Utd fan him isn't he. previous incumbents in that and similar positions Brian Barwick (huge Liverpool fan) David Dein etc etc, or is it just that there's a load of stuffed brown envelopes doing the rounds.

 

If you want to be taken seriously with this one, lets have some proof, otherwise it's just the usual sour grapes scenario. All the way through the eighties it seemed that George Courtney used to give Liverpool a penalty in the last 5 mins in cae they needed the 2 points, do I really think he was bent, nah, not really. It's just the way it goes.

 

So if you reckon football's bent, can you tell me who these powerful pro United forces are, I'd really be intrigued to see you back up these ideas with some facts?

 

Whilst I'm at it, was I impressed by Young's dive, nope not one bit, don't like it never will, but they're all at it, the mantra being 'feel contact go down', to be honest I've no idea how you'll get rid of it.

[S.A.C Martin]

Touched a nerve I guess, but I'm afraid until you've experienced the anxiety and desperation of clubs going down, and going out of existence, you won't understand the depth of ill feeling Manchester United generates.

 

I think it's fair to say any supporter of a club who has played Manchester United in the last twenty years will remember one, two, or in my case, four or five specific incidents where a player dived/decision was/wasn't given against/for you, and the end result was the same - a Manchester United win, with a dose of controversy. The last few weeks, it is Fulham and Queens Park Rangers. Who was it last season? Why was it significant then? What about six years ago...I'm bitter, of course. Things do not change easily.

 

Things do not, I am afraid, ever "even out" as Sir Alex is so quick to say. It won't even out for Queen's Park Rangers - who were fighting for their survival prior to kickoff, and then with the sending off and penalty that never was, were all but doomed to an expectant loss.

 

As for Fulham - well, they might have 44 points now. Significant? Yes, because every place in the Premier League equals extra prize money. So it might not affect them, being as they are, middle of the table, currently, but come the end of the season, that dropped possible equaliser for the penalty that never was (and should have been) might cost them an extra place.

 

And what other conclusion can we take away from these decisions? That the referees are in Manchester United's pocket? Or that they are afraid of them? If the constant, every year, is that certain decisions always go one particular way, be it a sending off and a penalty or a disallowed (but perfectly legitimate goal - Tottenham VS United - that was a doozy that year!), and we continue to see players like Ashley Young throw themselves to the ground to get players sent off - and then never punished - how else should we feel about Manchester United's overall title win?

 

You tell me.

 

By the way - sorting out diving - a retrospective punishment in the form of a three match ban, with no right of appeal. Watch them dive when that's brought in. You want to stop cheating in sport? Hit them hard where it hurts most. Removing the so-called "star" players who have about as much honour as a sewer rat.

Edited April 11, 2012 by S.A.C Martin

[Red Devil]

Touched a nerve I guess, but I'm afraid until you've experienced the anxiety and desperation of clubs going down, and going out of existence, you won't understand the depth of ill feeling Manchester United generates.

 

I think it's fair to say any supporter of a club who has played Manchester United in the last twenty years will remember one, two, or in my case, four or five specific incidents where a player dived/decision was/wasn't given against/for you, and the end result was the same - a Manchester United win, with a dose of controversy. The last few weeks, it is Fulham and Queens Park Rangers. Who was it last season? Why was it significant then? What about six years ago...I'm bitter, of course. Things do not change easily.

 

Things do not, I am afraid, ever "even out" as Sir Alex is so quick to say. It won't even out for Queen's Park Rangers - who were fighting for their survival prior to kickoff, and then with the sending off and penalty that never was, were all but doomed to an expectant loss.

 

As for Fulham - well, they might have 44 points now. Significant? Yes, because every place in the Premier League equals extra prize money. So it might not affect them, being as they are, middle of the table, currently, but come the end of the season, that dropped possible equaliser for the penalty that never was (and should have been) might cost them an extra place.

 

And what other conclusion can we take away from these decisions? That the referees are in Manchester United's pocket? Or that they are afraid of them? If the constant, every year, is that certain decisions always go one particular way, be it a sending off and a penalty or a disallowed (but perfectly legitimate goal - Tottenham VS United - that was a doozy that year!), and we continue to see players like Ashley Young throw themselves to the ground to get players sent off - and then never punished - how else should we feel about Manchester United's overall title win?

 

You tell me.

 

By the way - sorting out diving - a retrospective punishment in the form of a three match ban, with no right of appeal. Watch them dive when that's brought in. You want to stop cheating in sport? Hit them hard where it hurts most. Removing the so-called "star" players who have about as much honour as a sewer rat.

 

Yawn, more invective and no real facts. So how are the referees in Uniteds pocket, cash? fear? can you explain it, just because you say it is doesn't make it so.

 

To what purpose is all this? If the refs are in Uniteds pockets, why don't we get all the decisions all the time, sake of argument season before last, two offside Chelsea goals, deprived Utd of a fourth title, we'd now be going for 6 in a row, in fact if it's bent, surely we'd win it every year?

 

No raw nerve, just used to it, you see United are always news unlike your team who to the vast majority of us up north are a team in south London who we occasionally come across. Fact is,every United incident is major news, other teams less so.

 

You state that you've had this feeling for nearly 20 years, If I might ask how old are you, did you ever see any of Liverpools dominant years, a similar thing could have been levelled against them in their era?

 

As to how you feel about any United win, no idea, not really a problem for me, but if you want to make widespreads aspersions, lets back them up with some fact.

 

To what end does a 'bent' league benefit anybody? Do you really think that there would be no evidence of corruption? Just who makes the decisions and how does it happen?

 

As to never get punished, dear me, the only player ever to be banned for swearing (at a tv camera, which shouldn't have been on the pitch) misses out on an FA semi, Manager charged with misconduct for praising a ref, seriously, go and check out how many times Utd have had players banned etc, if you want I'll provide you chapter and verse, because I probably know a bit more about it than you.

 

You will not sort out diving and simulation unless all clubs agree to it, look at the Eduardo one that Arsenal appealed, how do you draw the line if there is contact made? Don't like it but, every single club in the league has players that will dive and simulate, they are coached and told to do so.

[S.A.C Martin]

No raw nerve, just used to it, you see United are always news unlike your team who to the vast majority of us up north are a team in south London who we occasionally come across. Fact is,every United incident is major news, other teams less so.

 

I don't think I need to say anymore on this, than point directly to that sentence. But I shall, because it's worth clarifying my feelings.

 

The abrasive and overwhelming arrogance; the misunderstanding of other football supporters; the sincerity with which Manchester United supporters do not believe that anyone else matters, but themselves; the inability to look from the outside in, and see that what I was talking about - directly - is the perception that Manchester United have things all their own way.

 

You may well be right, that they are not buying the league through scrupilous means - but looking from the outside in, there are some things, every season, which seem to happen like clockwork, and people are now starting to ask why.

 

They may be wrong - but can you blame them for thinking this way? Every season, there is something particularly notable. It is not just as a result of media outlets (apparently run solely by Liverpudlians) - Manchester United attract controversy and dubious refereeing decisions like a cat to milk.

 

I'm 24 years old - and proud to have been, at 5 years old, holding a black bin bag, in a derelict stadium full of people pulling out weeds, clearing out rubbish, and making it home again for a football club.

 

Proud to have played at Sparrow's Lane, as a footballer and then a referee, and to have had my season ticket (bought with my own money) for fifteen years now. To have saved up, and to have gone to almost every single home match for fifteen years, wherever I was in the world.

 

You carry on with your view of football. It's just not shared by any other football supporter outside of the top four or five, I dare say.

 

But then, Manchester United is big news - who else matters?

Edited April 11, 2012 by S.A.C Martin

[mezzoman253]

Whilst I'm at it, was I impressed by Young's dive, nope not one bit, don't like it never will, but they're all at it, the mantra being 'feel contact go down', to be honest I've no idea how you'll get rid of it.

 

In theory a 50/50 split of penalties and yellows for the attacker should happen over a season. The reality is, given a marginal decision, the penalty is more likely to be given, why?

 

If you awarded a penalty to the defending side if the attacker simulated, that might get the attention of managers, and go some way to solving the problem. Or would you then get defenders luring attackers into dives?

 

Rob

Edited April 11, 2012 by mezzoman253

[jonny777]

Dear me, I assume that these posts are a thinly veiled attack on Utd, forgive me if I'm wrong but that's the way it reads, have a look at this,

 

http://www.debatable...ions.com/tables

 

Failing that, perhaps it's time for some 9/11 style conspiracy theories and tinfoil hats time.............

 

As to media bias, well think you'll find that Liverpool have that stiched up, the only maistream ex United pundits are Neville (who even some of my City supporting mates admit talks sense most of the time) recently, Keane, and occasionally Dwight Yorke. Liverpool, Hansen, Lawrenson, McManaman, Collymore, Jamie Redknapp, Jim Beglin, Phil Thompson, Alvin Martin (Liverpool fan) Mick Quinn (Liverpool fan), Ray Houghton etc etc.

 

How do Utd manage to get all these 'bent' desicions then? Head of the FA David Bernstein, well known Utd fan him isn't he. previous incumbents in that and similar positions Brian Barwick (huge Liverpool fan) David Dein etc etc, or is it just that there's a load of stuffed brown envelopes doing the rounds.

 

If you want to be taken seriously with this one, lets have some proof, otherwise it's just the usual sour grapes scenario. All the way through the eighties it seemed that George Courtney used to give Liverpool a penalty in the last 5 mins in cae they needed the 2 points, do I really think he was bent, nah, not really. It's just the way it goes.

 

So if you reckon football's bent, can you tell me who these powerful pro United forces are, I'd really be intrigued to see you back up these ideas with some facts?

 

Whilst I'm at it, was I impressed by Young's dive, nope not one bit, don't like it never will, but they're all at it, the mantra being 'feel contact go down', to be honest I've no idea how you'll get rid of it.

 

For someone defending Man U, you seem to use the word Liverpool rather too many times for my liking.

 

I have no idea why that is, but when I mentioned 'media' I was thinking of the entire media, rather than some narrow definition that includes only a few pundits in a box overlooking the pitch.

 

My theory is that big clubs get more favourable decisions at home because of the crowd. Think about it. If the referee is not particularly looking in the precise direction and suddenly 30000 supporters shout "hand ball!!", the sheer volume of that must make them think they have missed something.

 

The home crowd will not shout that when their player handles the ball, so only the away side gets that treatment. It is even more dramatic when someone goes down in the penalty area. The home crowd remain silent when it is the opposition player who appears to have been fouled, but any falling over by the home team players seem to be accompanied by howls of complaints. Multiply this by the extra crowd at Old Trafford, and referees are naturally under more pressure to give decisions.

 

It may not be the conspiracy you suggest, but just a function of success.

[Red Devil]

I don't think I need to say anymore on this, than point directly to that sentence. But I shall, because it's worth clarifying my feelings.

 

The abrasive and overwhelming arrogance; the misunderstanding of other football supporters; the sincerity with which Manchester United supporters do not believe that anyone else matters, but themselves; the inability to look from the outside in, and see that what I was talking about - directly - is the perception that Manchester United have things all their own way. You may well be right, that they are not buying the league through scrupilous means - but looking from the outside in, there are some things, every season, which seem to happen like clockwork, and people are now starting to ask why.

 

I'm 24 years old - and proud to have been, at 5 years old, holding a black bin bag, in a derelict stadium full of people pulling out weeds, clearing out rubbish, and making it home again for a football club. P

 

roud to have played at Sparrow's Lane, as a footballer and then a referee, and to have had my season ticket (bought with my own money) for fifteen years now. To have saved up, and to have gone to almost every single home match for fifteen years, wherever I was in the world.

 

You carry on with your view of football. It's just not shared by any other football supporter outside of the top four or five, I dare say.

 

But then, Manchester United is big news - who else matters?

 

 

Asked the wrong bloke there as to who else matters, I also follow FCUM, which is the club set up by dissafected supporters after the Glazer takeover (I still go and watch Utd, but the Glazers have never had a penny of me directly) So the fact is I know enough about grass roots football, we're going one further than pulling weeds out, I've put my hand in my pocket to help build a new community based stadium in Moston M/cr, so lets not go all sentimental on the 'big bad boys' and 'poor little minnows' type stuff.

 

So you've had this view that the league is slightly dodgy since you were 5/6/7/8? Going off the fact that it's a belief you've had for nearly 20 years. I used to believe in Father Christmas at that age, grew out of it though.

 

Like I have said, anyone who was around in the 70s and 80s would have said much the same about Liverpool, we lived in a different age then with less coverage and information, I'm sure that if it was someone else who came to pre eminence the case would bew much the same.

 

The jibe about Charlton was meant to illustrate the fact that everyone seems to have a view about United, yourself included and you feel it fair game to have an attack every now and then, but your club, no matter how you dress it up doesn't feature on my radar, probably never will, but if I go on the offensive about them, I'm sure you would be predisposed to defend it, I don't make comments on Charlton, because they're not my club, I don't watch them or league one football in general.

 

So we have things all our own way, well that's your opinion, that's slightly different than saying the Premier League/FA/Refs etc are corrupt.which is what you were intimating, so which is it, bent or just the usual case of the big clubs getting the decisions, always has happened always will? One minute you're saying it's systematically corrupt, then you're backtracking and dressing it up a different way,

 

Final question, do you honestly belive it's corrupt, if so, why and who benefits apart from obviously MUFC? I would have thought it would be in the Premier leagues interest for it not to be won so often by United, so as to stimulate more interest, wouldn't it also be more interesting if it went down to the wire, or are the refs going to alter their tack now and get City back into the race to bring it to an exciting finale?

[Red Devil]

For someone defending Man U, you seem to use the word Liverpool rather too many times for my liking.

 

I have no idea why that is, but when I mentioned 'media' I was thinking of the entire media, rather than some narrow definition that includes only a few pundits in a box overlooking the pitch.

 

My theory is that big clubs get more favourable decisions at home because of the crowd. Think about it. If the referee is not particularly looking in the precise direction and suddenly 30000 supporters shout "hand ball!!", the sheer volume of that must make them think they have missed something.

 

The home crowd will not shout that when their player handles the ball, so only the away side gets that treatment. It is even more dramatic when someone goes down in the penalty area. The home crowd remain silent when it is the opposition player who appears to have been fouled, but any falling over by the home team players seem to be accompanied by howls of complaints. Multiply this by the extra crowd at Old Trafford, and referees are naturally under more pressure to give decisions.

 

It may not be the conspiracy you suggest, but just a function of success.

 

Which is exactly what I've been saying, the big clubs get the decisions, always have always will. I'm not the one saying that there is a conspiracy!

 

How many times can I mention Liverpool then? The reason they are mentioned, is because in the past they were in the same position of pre eminence and the same comments were made about them at the time, albeit less so as we didn't live in such a media frenzy then.

 

As to media, go on then, tell me all the pro United media, I'd really like to see that list?

[jonny777]

I cant give any figures, but I dont see why the media should be any different to any other profession; and there always seems to be a majority of United supporters in the groups of people that I meet in everyday life, so why not them as well?

 

They may be glory hunters, but that comes with success as well I suppose.

[Red Devil]

I cant give any figures, but I dont see why the media should be any different to any other profession; and there always seems to be a majority of United supporters in the groups of people that I meet in everyday life, so why not them as well?

 

They may be glory hunters, but that comes with success as well I suppose.

 

If you're going to state something as a fact, how about backing it up with something, so the majority of people you meet are United fans so the majority of people working in the media are United fans!!

 

The majority of people working in the media will not be United fans, if that was to extrapolate out, the majority of the country would be United fans! Not me making these claims, if you're going to say it please back it up with somthing credible!

Edited April 11, 2012 by Red Devil

[S.A.C Martin]

I despair. Go back and read my post again. It's the perception shared by a great number of people. Why do you think they feel that way?

[Red Devil]

But it always seems far too coincidental that the team who always benefits ultimately plays in red, with black socks.

This happens every year, and I don't know why we are surprised that it continues to happen.!

I despair. Go back and read my post again. It's the perception shared by a great number of people. Why do you think they feel that way?

 

I've read your post numerous times, what is it to be then, more than coincidental (ie arranged/organised by your implication).

 

Or the perception of 'a great number of people'?

 

Simple question, before you despair some more, do you believe that the League/FA/Refs collude to give United an advantage?

 

Or is it as I've said numerous times, the big clubs tend to get the decisions?

 

There's a sizeable number ofd people who believe the moon landings were faked, Diana was killed by MI6, 9/11 was organised by the CIA, Elvis is alive and well.............

[Claude_Dreyfus]

Another factor to throw into the debate over simulation is the mechanics of running and falling. When running hard your body is extremely unbalanced...this means that even the smallest touch can send you flying. Also when falling there is a 'right' way to fall to minimise the risk of injury. A foul is a foul, and whilst Young made the most of it...to me unsporting behaviour...it may not be a clear cut dive.

 

Morton Gamst Pederson a season or so ago... Blatant dive. Robert Pires against Pompey, also a blatant dive. No contact in either situations.

 

[Arthur]

Interesting article by Gary Neville here on the subject of 'diving' which, ironically, appeared on Sunday morning before the Ashley Young incident. Contrasts his own football upbringing and his surprise at the ease at which continental players went over when, as a young teenager, he first played in Europe. His conversation with Ronaldo on the subject puts it in a different perspective, you might not agree but it's a different view.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2126567/Gary-Neville-Andy-Carrolls-dive-laugh--zero-tolerance-wont-ground.html

[oggy1953]

With the risk that the heated debate on here getting the forum locked, may i offer my thoughts. Any club that is successful over a period of time will attract hatred. Man City will surely suffer it in the future when they have won the Premiership for the umpteenth time, which they must surely do given their resources. Chelsea had it for a while under Mourinhio when Abramovich bankrolled success. That has died down now as Abramovich is seen as ' A fool with his money'who's main joy is sacking managers. Liverpool copped it in the 80s, Leeds in the 70s, that may have been partly due to their style of play which was - If it moves kick it, in fact even if it doesn't move kick it. Arsenal got it in the 30s i believe when they won the league 3 or 4 times. Lucky Arsenal they were called as apparantley they won many games 1 nil with a late goal ( some things don't change then ). And its not only football. When Steve Davis entered the snooker world as a youngster everyone loved him. A few years later after he had won just about every tournament each year he was hated, Boring Davis he was known as. Then theres Phil Taylor of darts. The greatest player EVER without a doubt. But, boy, if he loses a game Hes Finished goes the cry ( they may wish ) IF only my team Spurs could be hated for a while, apart feom the obvious London rivals. That would mean we were successful ( fat chance, pigs may fly etc etc moan moan ) I would love it, just love it to coin a famous football phrase.