S.A.C Martin Posted April 11, 2012 Author Share Posted April 11, 2012 Is it the success, or the manner in which it happens? I am arguing the latter, very much so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesthecat Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Can't find it now but there was a BBC report on favoritism a few weeks ago and I think chelsea were top for penaltys awarded! Even Fergie said himself decisions even themselves out over the season, wouldn't have imagined him saying that a few years ago. It is hard to believe though when things seem to be going against you- think that goes for life in general as well! mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Is it the success, or the manner in which it happens? I am arguing the latter, very much so. Question still remains unanswered, do you believe the league is corrupt, simple yes or no answer, I'm not the one who came on pontificating about it, I think it's a reasonable question after you're claims that there are too many things for it to be coincidental? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted April 11, 2012 Author Share Posted April 11, 2012 Question still remains unanswered, do you believe the league is corrupt, simple yes or no answer, I'm not the one who came on pontificating about it, I think it's a reasonable question after you're claims that there are too many things for it to be coincidental? No, I am not saying the league is corrupt. Yes I am saying people will put two and two together based on what they see, and their perception of said club. It's not so much that something IS going on, but that people will definitely come to that conclusion if it happens season after season - which in my experience, it does. My view is that the referees are afraid of Sir Alex Ferguson. He's actually ended the career of several referees over the years, although you'd have to be a member of the referees association to find out the full details, or have been paying attention to those picked for certain fixtures. One thing is for certain, I do think it is not a coincidence that these sort of incidents happen, but you inferred that it was a corruption thing - I personally feel it's an intimidation and fear for one's job, in terms of referees. Imagine if the referee had not given that penalty at Old Trafford, and have given a free kick for the first offence - offside. We wouldn't be having this discussion now, even with the previous Fulham incident. You'd put the Fulham incident down to a one off perhaps in this season, but one following another very quickly looks - how can I put this - "suspicious". And people will put two and two together, even if it's not ultimately true. Other fans will be disgruntled, bitter and angry if they see high profile players diving and getting penalties, and the same team fouling and not being punished equally. They will think that way because they have been conditioned to over a number of years. For example, this isn't the first time a young, talented, overly paid United player has dived - and what happened when a United player didn't turn up for his drugs test? Eight month ban? There were two players that year in the lower leagues who were given lifetime bans for failing their drugs test. What about Ronaldo? Did he serve bans orreceive yellow cards for diving? How about Roy Keane ending the career of another player? If that hadn't been on the football pitch, it would have been GBH - and Keane's description in his book was vile. There's hundreds more examples which all contribute to the "hate" surrounding Manchester United, it's just a case of how many you care to mention. Then you factor in the general dismissive nature of United fans towards the rest of the football world, and you wonder why people think as they do. Personally speaking, I dislike the idea that anyone "hates the club" because I happen to know people who work for the club behind the scenes, and they're amazing people. The image is tarnished by high profile players and dubious decisions constantly. Yes, it's always been in the public eye, but what other football club does this sort of thing happen to, year on year, anywhere else in the country? Too long, didn't read it version - don't think it's a conspiracy as such, but I do think Manchester United have a particular affect on referees in this country, for all the wrong reasons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Claude_Dreyfus Posted April 11, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 11, 2012 Well, tonight's games made for interesting reading. Wolves must be doomed now - and candidates for numpties of the year for zapping Big Mick without any fall-back option, whilst Wigan have done their cause the power of good by beating Man Utd. It is interesting, and in the light of recent discussions, ironic that Wigan's winner has scored in controversial circumstances... And Man Utd had a valid penalty claim turned down. Perhaps indicative that whilst it seems the decisions always go their way, it is not always the case. Man City have also turned the goal difference round, which will increase the interest for the rest of the season. Good for the neutrals... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 (edited) With the risk that the heated debate on here getting the forum locked.... It's only between two people. Yellow card for each? Edited April 11, 2012 by Horsetan 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 It's only between two people. Yellow card? Why, I asked a perfectly reasonable question? To be honest why should Mr Martin get away with his constant anti Utd sniping, if he wishes to continue that route, I will take him to task on it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Why, I asked a perfectly reasonable question? To be honest why should Mr Martin get away with his constant anti Utd sniping, if he wishes to continue that route, I will take him to task on it. *wags admonishing finger* The pair of you are probably as bad as each other, and are surely welcome to each other's company, then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted April 11, 2012 Author Share Posted April 11, 2012 Why, I asked a perfectly reasonable question? To be honest why should Mr Martin get away with his constant anti Utd sniping, if he wishes to continue that route, I will take him to task on it. Take me to task by all means, but please give me some credit: it's not all "anti-United"; but you yourself are not capable, it seems, of admitting that the perception of your club is not - shall we say - the best in the mindsets of many hundreds of thousands of football supporters? I am, I must admit, surprised by this evening's results. An interesting end to the Premier League season may be in order. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave47549 Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 (edited) . Edited September 29, 2021 by Dave47549 Removed pointless guff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted April 11, 2012 Author Share Posted April 11, 2012 (edited) *wags admonishing finger* The pair of you are probably as bad as each other, and are surely welcome to each other's company, then. Thanks! Edited April 11, 2012 by S.A.C Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 No, I am not saying the league is corrupt. Yes I am saying people will put two and two together based on what they see, and their perception of said club. It's not so much that something IS going on, but that people will definitely come to that conclusion if it happens season after season - which in my experience, it does. My view is that the referees are afraid of Sir Alex Ferguson. He's actually ended the career of several referees over the years, although you'd have to be a member of the referees association to find out the full details, or have been paying attention to those picked for certain fixtures. One thing is for certain, I do think it is not a coincidence that these sort of incidents happen, but you inferred that it was a corruption thing - I personally feel it's an intimidation and fear for one's job, in terms of referees. Imagine if the referee had not given that penalty at Old Trafford, and have given a free kick for the first offence - offside. We wouldn't be having this discussion now, even with the previous Fulham incident. You'd put the Fulham incident down to a one off perhaps in this season, but one following another very quickly looks - how can I put this - "suspicious". And people will put two and two together, even if it's not ultimately true. Other fans will be disgruntled, bitter and angry if they see high profile players diving and getting penalties, and the same team fouling and not being punished equally. They will think that way because they have been conditioned to over a number of years. For example, this isn't the first time a young, talented, overly paid United player has dived - and what happened when a United player didn't turn up for his drugs test? Eight month ban? There were two players that year in the lower leagues who were given lifetime bans for failing their drugs test. What about Ronaldo? Did he serve bans orreceive yellow cards for diving? How about Roy Keane ending the career of another player? If that hadn't been on the football pitch, it would have been GBH - and Keane's description in his book was vile. There's hundreds more examples which all contribute to the "hate" surrounding Manchester United, it's just a case of how many you care to mention. Then you factor in the general dismissive nature of United fans towards the rest of the football world, and you wonder why people think as they do. Personally speaking, I dislike the idea that anyone "hates the club" because I happen to know people who work for the club behind the scenes, and they're amazing people. The image is tarnished by high profile players and dubious decisions constantly. Yes, it's always been in the public eye, but what other football club does this sort of thing happen to, year on year, anywhere else in the country? Too long, didn't read it version - don't think it's a conspiracy as such, but I do think Manchester United have a particular affect on referees in this country, for all the wrong reasons. Wide ranging claims there. Firstly you said it was more than a coincidence, in my book that means something is going on, you not me. So now we backtrack to it's not corrupt but United are the anti christ. You really do have a problem, don't you, I suggested this in the past when we had 'crossed swords' but that was me imagining it. I can show you a million videos of players diving, but it's that one particular Ashley Young dive that grabs your ire. Whatever argument you wish to put up against United I can quite easily counter with other instances at other clubs, but they don't seem to raise your hackles, like I said, you really do have a bee in your bonnet. If these referee claims are true, why hasn't someone in the media run with it? Seriously there are plenty who have a problem with both Ferguson and United to do so, or perhaps you'd like to lets us all know your inside knowledge? Or is it just based on rumour and hearsay, I'd be interested if you'd care to share? I'm sorry but, it's laughable, United have an effect on Referees, well perhaps they should grow a set then, are you seriously telling me that the Referees Association have a problem with United that they can't deal with, if so then perhaps it's time for them to go public, again put up or shut up. To you really want me to counter every one of your aguments with other cases, because I can and will, for example, regarding the Ferdinand missed drugs test, well some months previously there was a similar missed drugs test by a Manchester City reserve team player, he didn't get a ban his sanction wwas nothing near the same. Not saying that Ferdinand didn't deserve his ban, just that your one eyed myopia needs addressing. These Referees that have had their careers ended, name them, if that's the case lets have the facts, if it's true then it's not a problem, but so far all I hear is you saying so, I'm sorry but I can't believe that it wouldn't have blown up in the media if that was the case, the story is just too big. Basically it seems that you have a major problem with MUFC, that's your business, but when you start making wide ranging claims like you do, I really wish you'd provide some proof rather than hearsay and rumour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted April 12, 2012 Author Share Posted April 12, 2012 Moving on, as it's clear we'll have to agree to disagree...! Just realized I took out Aguero from my fantasy team last week. In God's name, why did I do that?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Well, if there was a conspiracy in football, the best (although most naive) way of trying to silence the theories would be for the top of the table team to lose to the bottom team...... If this is spun as 'proof' that all teams are treated equally by referees, rather than one team played badly and the other were up for it due to their survival instinct; then it may not be a conspiracy but it sure is the ultimate in arrogance to think of that excuse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mod6 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Moving on, as it's clear we'll have to agree to disagree...! Good call - I think you and Red Devil between you have said more than enough on the subject. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 By the way - sorting out diving - a retrospective punishment in the form of a three match ban, with no right of appeal. Watch them dive when that's brought in. You want to stop cheating in sport? Hit them hard where it hurts most. Removing the so-called "star" players who have about as much honour as a sewer rat. Entirely agree, and whilst we're at it I don't see why they can't take action if the ref has "supposedly" seen the incident but in reality didn't (Balotelli)... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 People with a sense of humour might appreciate this site, http://footballisfixed.blogspot.co.uk/ but if you cannot see a more light hearted side, please do not complain to me 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesthecat Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 It is far too simplistic to look at penaltys/ fouls for and against an suggest a team gets favours from the ref. Do you not have to look at how the game is played. For example when Man U play you know they will have the majority of possession and will probably be in the opponents box alot. If united are in possession they arn't going to be commiting the fouls, if they are in the opposition box alot of the time the law of averages suggests they will be fouled and awarded a penalty. The teams at the bottom of the league say wolves for example I would suggest are more likely to play on the counter attack may commit more fouls trying to win the ball back and be in the oppositions box less of the time so be less likely to be awarded a penalty. I am sure there are flaws in my logic but it seems to make sense to me, also referees are only human and do make mistakes (beach ball at sunderland come to mind) but do you get it right 100% of the time? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 People with a sense of humour might appreciate this site, http://footballisfixed.blogspot.co.uk/ but if you cannot see a more light hearted side, please do not complain to me 1. Manchester United - Referee Index 73 (1)2. Fulham 68 (9) 3. Tottenham 66 (4) 4. Bolton 61 (18) 5. Swansea 60 (14) 6. Everton 55 (7) 7. Man City 56 (2) 8. Stoke 54 (12) 9. Aston Villa 53 (15) 10. Chelsea 52 (6) 11. Blackburn 51 (19) 12. Sunderland 48 (11) 13. QPR 47 (16) 14. West Brom 46 (13) 15. Liverpool 46 (8) 16. Arsenal 45 (3) 17. Newcastle 44 (5) 18. Norwich 40 (10) 19. Wigan 33 (17) 20. Wolves 22 (20) * Until the match between Wigan/Man Utd last evening, the two clubs treated most harshly were in the bottom two positions. * The most favoured team, the Manchester Manipulators, are top on both counts. * Arsenal, Liverpool, Man City, Norwich and Newcastle would be in a stronger position with more egalitarian refereeing. * Blackburn, Swansea, Fulham, Bolton and Stoke are very lucky boys. No conspiracy theories. It is not conspiratorial to declare that when Foy, Walton or Mason have been refereeing Manchester Utd Premier League games, the most powerful team in the land have only been defeated once in 47 games. This isn't an angle 'tis public data. Check it. As is the performance of Mr Walton in games involving the Manchester teams after Shinawatra took over - out of 22 Premier League games refereed by Walton, City never won and United never lost. We are just arbitrageurs of the neohyperrealities of postmodern football. Still... The Manchester Manipulators receive the most help from referees and are top of the table... ... Wolverhampton Wanderers are punished excessively by referees and are bottom! What a weird fluke! Love it. Did give me a laugh that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesthecat Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 Fleetwood Promoted yay!!!!!! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Modeller Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 Fleetwood Promoted yay!!!!!! and Stags definitely in the Conference Premier play-offs too, if my maths is correct! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted April 14, 2012 Author Share Posted April 14, 2012 As are we - CHARLTON ATHLETIC - WE ARE CHAMPIONSHIP, WE ARE CHAMPIONSHIP! A win next week and CHRISSY POWELLS RED N WHITE ARMY may be champions of League 1! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CUTLER2579 Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 As are we - CHARLTON ATHLETIC - WE ARE CHAMPIONSHIP, WE ARE CHAMPIONSHIP! A win next week and CHRISSY POWELLS RED N WHITE ARMY may be champions of League 1! Well for 12 months anyway Mr Martin. :no: 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted April 14, 2012 Author Share Posted April 14, 2012 Did it post three times? Apologies everyone! And Derek - I sincerely hope not! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cary hill Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 Did it post three times? Apologies everyone! And Derek - I sincerely hope not! I just took it as a variation on three cheers. Well done Charlton and Chris Powell. It will be interesting to see what reception the Leicester "rejects" get here next season. Kermorgant might be "rested" as the memory of his terrible play-off penalty attempt against Cardiff is still a raw memory up here and we seem to have gone backwards ever since. It will be interesting to see if Charlton can benefit from the "bounce" effect, like Norwich and Southampton(well almost), and aim for the Premiership rather than just "consolidating" in the Championship. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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