Jump to content
 

The non-railway and non-modelling social zone. Please ensure forum rules are adhered to in this area too!

Football Focus


S.A.C Martin
 Share

Recommended Posts

I'm not singing anymore...dreadful first half at the Valley today, so I am told. I was on the North Norfolk Railway today taking in the beautiful Holden B12 and the sights of the sea beyond.

 

2-4 to Notts County. Come on Charlton, one last big push for the end of the season to seal promotion, please... :(

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

Went to Station Park today and saw Forfar Athletic hammer local rivals Brechin City 4-1, thereby easing the Loons' relegation worries to some small extent. I fear that Brechin manager Jim Weir's days at the club are numbered.

 

The unbelieveable part is that they (Rangers) can lose 10 points and still be second.

Not too unbelievable - in the English Premiership, Manchester United, currently second, could lose 10 points and would still be second.

Edited by Torper
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

SSShhhhhhh.......whisper it ever so quietly but it looks like Southampton are back on song.....and West ham keep doing us favours!

 

Bit concerned about Reading though.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

What is it about Liverpool, the Stadium of Light and bizarre goals? No beach balls this time but Campbell's shot rebounds off the post, hits the back of Reina's head & rebounds off the post again and is eventually put away by Bendtner.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about the result, just the odd way it came about :danced:

 

Ralph

 

Lambton58

Link to post
Share on other sites

Game on............................ :aggressive:

 

Seems we have you worried! Must be a novelty for a united fan!!

 

There's another 10 games yet... It could all change again! ;)

Edited by Hobby
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

I read the other day that Pompey and Glasgow Rangers are planning a friendly match to help boost the coffers!

 

Perhaps that is an idea for a new competition....the 'Bankrupts Cup'.

 

Entrants so far are (restricted to those teams who have had point deductions for going into administration!):

 

Portsmouth

Glasgow Rangers

Port Vale

Darlington

Plymouth Argyle

 

The list of entrants will no doubt grow ove the next couple of seasons...

Link to post
Share on other sites

I read the other day that Pompey and Glasgow Rangers are planning a friendly match to help boost the coffers!

 

Perhaps that is an idea for a new competition....the 'Bankrupts Cup'.

 

Entrants so far are (restricted to those teams who have had point deductions for going into administration!):

.....

 

The list of entrants will no doubt grow over the next couple of seasons...

 

Can they afford to enter?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems we have you worried! Must be a novelty for a united fan!!

 

There's another 10 games yet... It could all change again! ;)

 

Half a billion quid would have anyone worried, the fact that it's city rather than Chelsea/Arsenal/Newcastle/Liverpool pushing us for the title adds a little bit to it, what does make it more interesting is the number of city fans who seemed to think it was a foregone conclusion.

 

Difference is, been there, done that, I remember standing on the Kop in April '92 watching us lose the title, didn't think it could get much worse, in fact I honestly thought I'd never see Utd win it, so 20 years later, worried, no? I do think you need to lose a title to win one though, so yeah there may be a few twists, but I still fancy our run in over yours.

 

I don't think you'll see too much scriking going on from the red 3/4 though........... :no:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Your players/manager are getting very vocal all of a sudden over the past few weeks so I'd say that there is some concern there, as for winning/losing I'd agree but point out that most of our players are used to winning as well, just not the English Prem... :mosking:

 

As for money, when you've worked out what Utd, Chelsea, and the others have spend over the years to win their titles then maybe mention City's spending... But even over the past few years if you actually look at moneys in and out for players there isn't that much difference between them, one of the papers did the figures at the end of last year... Its just another myth...

Edited by Hobby
Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, a loss last year of £195 million (a record for a British club), the highest British club wage bill (which is £22 million more than their turnover) and a stadium sponsorship scam which might, or might not, get them round the UEFA's Financial Fair Play regulations, are not myths.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Your players/manager are getting very vocal all of a sudden over the past few weeks so I'd say that there is some concern there, as for winning/losing I'd agree but point out that most of our players are used to winning as well, just not the English Prem... :mosking:

 

As for money, when you've worked out what Utd, Chelsea, and the others have spend over the years to win their titles then maybe mention City's spending... But even over the past few years if you actually look at moneys in and out for players there isn't that much difference between them, one of the papers did the figures at the end of last year... Its just another myth...

 

No it's not a myth, the difference between City and United is that we are not and never have been a rich mans plaything, the simple fact is your sucess (!) is soley thanks to the largesse of your Arab benefactors, without that you would just be a middle of the table club. I have no problem with that but lets not cloud the issue with absolute rubbish, Uniteds net spend is mimimal compared to City and any money spent has been generated by the club itself and not an oil rich state in the middle east. If you really want I'll provide you the figures, believe me it'll show you're wrong.

 

If City do go on to win it it will be deserved, as the winner is undoubtedly the 'best' team over the season, but to suggest that our players/management/fans/tea lady are getting vocal all of a sudden is a complete joke, all that's happening now is a slight ramping of pressure on City, by all means you mob can try the mind games but I really don't think you've much chance of winning that one.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, m8, but its not a myth regarding spending, when the paper published it I was discussing it with one of your fellow supporters and one from Spurs, we were all surprised to the figures but they don't lie, just all our spending has been over the past three seasons rather than over the past ten. Looking at the top clubs once they get up there the spending, whilst still very high compared to the rest, tends to level off (though still at a high level!) I wish I'd kept a copy of it now! I agree with you about where the money comes from, though where the Glaziers fit in to your plaything bit I'm not sure! Lets face it the whole of football is a rich mans playground and has been for donkey's years, its just now things could be said to be getting out of hand... Rather like F1... ;-)

 

We'll have to agree to differ with the sudden increase of comments from the Utd staff, though! Mind games from us? That's a bit rich... No, we'll leave that to the expert over your way, and just hope that our lot don't take the bait!!

 

We should be 4 points behind you by the time we play Chelsea, though, so it will be an interesting game... Must remember to wind up the Wolves fans at work to get their lot do do an upset (fat chance!!)...

Edited by Hobby
Link to post
Share on other sites

No it's not a myth, the difference between City and United is that we are not and never have been a rich mans plaything, the simple fact is your sucess (!) is soley thanks to the largesse of your Arab benefactors, without that you would just be a middle of the table club. I have no problem with that but lets not cloud the issue with absolute rubbish, Uniteds net spend is mimimal compared to City and any money spent has been generated by the club itself and not an oil rich state in the middle east. If you really want I'll provide you the figures, believe me it'll show you're wrong.

 

Didn't they - without money - go from League 1 to Premier League?

 

Undoubtedly a big achievement when they had very little to work with prior to being bought out.

 

If City do go on to win it it will be deserved, as the winner is undoubtedly the 'best' team over the season, but to suggest that our players/management/fans/tea lady are getting vocal all of a sudden is a complete joke, all that's happening now is a slight ramping of pressure on City, by all means you mob can try the mind games but I really don't think you've much chance of winning that one.

 

It has been no different this year to any year, whether it's Wenger/Mourinho/Ferguson/Moyes/Ancelloti/AVB/Mancini. Managers play the talking mind games all the time.

Link to post
Share on other sites

. Must remember to wind up the Wolves fans at work to get their lot do do an upset (fat chance!!)...

 

You gotta be kidding, with no money to get a decent manager, a meddling board of directors, a defence as useless as a chocolate teapot, and a one way ticket to oblivion for a once proud club which yearns for the good old days of about the same time when Bert Trautmann played for Man City.

Edited by bike2steam
Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, m8, but its not a myth regarding spending, when the paper published it I was discussing it with one of your fellow supporters and one from Spurs, we were all surprised to the figures but they don't lie, just all our spending has been over the past three seasons rather than over the past ten. Looking at the top clubs once they get up there the spending, whilst still very high compared to the rest, tends to level off (though still at a high level!) I wish I'd kept a copy of it now! I agree with you about where the money comes from, though where the Glaziers fit in to your plaything bit I'm not sure! Lets face it the whole of football is a rich mans playground and has been for donkey's years, its just now things could be said to be getting out of hand... Rather like F1... ;-)

 

We'll have to agree to differ with the sudden increase of comments from the Utd staff, though! Mind games from us? That's a bit rich... No, we'll leave that to the expert over your way, and just hope that our lot don't take the bait!!

 

We should be 4 points behind you by the time we play Chelsea, though, so it will be an interesting game... Must remember to wind up the Wolves fans at work to get their lot do do an upset (fat chance!!)...

Didn't they - without money - go from League 1 to Premier League?

 

Undoubtedly a big achievement when they had very little to work with prior to being bought out.

 

 

 

It has been no different this year to any year, whether it's Wenger/Mourinho/Ferguson/Moyes/Ancelloti/AVB/Mancini. Managers play the talking mind games all the time.

 

Lets clear these few things up shall we.

 

Transfer spends

 

Shall we set off with approx the last few years

 

Citys net transfer spend per year 2006-2011 £85,674,000

Uniteds £10,320,000

 

Yep that's close........ok, so the fact that Citys recent spending skews the figures, so we'll go back to when the Thai embezzeler was in charge

 

Citys net transfer spend per year 2003-2011 £53,049,375

Uniteds £10,912,500

 

Well it's getting closer but that's still some difference in my book, a mere £43 miliion now.....Tell you what let's do it over the last 20 plus years since the premier league started in 1992

 

Citys net transfer spend per year 1992-2011 £24,156,350

Uniteds £ 8,865,500

 

Get closer, but still a big difference in my book, that's not far off 3 times in my book..........

 

Figures taken from here http://www.transferl...92-to-2011.html other sites showing similar are also available should you like me to link them up.....,...

 

 

Ok lets take City gong from League one to the Premiership with no money, now I'm going off memory here but City have been relegated a couple of times in the premiership era and once going down to League 1, I would have thought during those relegations that Premiership parachute payments would have been in force, softening the financial blow, and as I'm often told City are a massive club so surely the numbers through the turnstiles would afford some form of financial clout to help them up, off the top of my head haven't Fulham, Norwich, Swansea, Blackpool, QPR, Stoke(?) amongst others had a stint in league one and then gone up, look at Norwich now, so hardly a huge unknown achievement, it's a bloody good effort but hardly a one off.

 

As to City having very little to work with, they are a big city club, an easy comparison would be with Everton, a traditional big support in a football city with a history and tradition of their own, it's a bit laughable to say they had nothing to work with and got promotion on 2/6, because they didn't nor should they have been in that position.

Edited by Red Devil
Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure about parachute payments back when we went down to league 1 (Div3?!), though you are right about the support, gates of 20+ thousand in that league was a welcome novelty for the other teams that year and the financial clout got them back up!

 

Looking back over City's purchases over the past 10 years how many of them are actually still around from the pre Mancini era... Very few. I think the difference between Utd and City regarding spending shows how good Ferguson has been in the transfer market, he buys, and, in the main, they stay, ours tend to be in one year and out the next, hopefully now that may change, looking at the Jan 2012 window it seems it may. We wasted an awful lot of money, a lot of which we never got back...

 

Ever thought what will happen when Ferguson goes, RD? I tend to think he's the reason for your success and will be a hard act to follow...

Edited by Hobby
Link to post
Share on other sites

Red Devil, I am reading those stats with amusment. You are stating the average per year gross spend from 1992-2011.

 

Of course if you conveniently put it back twenty years to 1992, City will have spent more on average per year, because their overall spending has rocketed in the last three to four years compared to United. If you removed the last three to four years spending the story would be completely reversed!

 

Up until 2007 Manchester United's spending would have been far higher than Manchester City's, year on year. Twisting the figures in the way you do above does not represent the whole truth.

 

I will say this, however: it shows to a great extent, if you put the 1992-2011 figures against number of trophies won, how very, very canny and clever Ferguson is in the transfer market compared to every other football club, without a shadow of a doubt.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Red Devil, I am reading those stats with amusment. You are stating the average per year gross spend from 1992-2011.

 

Of course if you conveniently put it back twenty years to 1992, City will have spent more on average per year, because their overall spending has rocketed in the last three to four years compared to United. If you removed the last three to four years spending the story would be completely reversed!

 

Up until 2007 Manchester United's spending would have been far higher than Manchester City's, year on year. Twisting the figures in the way you do above does not represent the whole truth.

 

I will say this, however: it shows to a great extent, if you put the 1992-2011 figures against number of trophies won, how very, very canny and clever Ferguson is in the transfer market compared to every other football club, without a shadow of a doubt.

 

Not absolutey the case, City like many other clubs have spent big in the past, Steve Daley etc, the point I'm trying to get across is the big bad United haven't spent huge sums and poor little city very little, many clubs spent averagely dependant on the market up till I'd say the money bags Chelsea era began, take a look at how much Liverpool have spent in the period 1992-2011 and what they won in comparison.

 

Yes Uniteds transfer budget and spend was greater than Citys, but that was because we had more fans through the turnstiles, greater sucess, better marketing etc etc.

 

The fact was stated the United and Citys transfer dealings were close, doesn't matter how you add the figures up, they're not, yes I grant you the average may be somewhat skewed but can you provide me figures to show the City and United spent similar ammounts? I have seen figures for the pre premiership era and City spent big then, 80s perhaps before your time, check out the prices paid for Steve Daley, Mckenzie, Robinson etc, 1979 £1,437,500 (a British record at the time) compare that with Bryan Robson 1981 £1,500,000 (a new British record) .

 

The fact is City have spent a huge ammount, money that is not generated by the club itself but by it's benefactor, I have no problem with that, but don't tell me that the spend is similar, it is not, I don't care when it was spent, the fact remains that it was spent, or did Mr H put a caveat on his post that what we've spent in the last four years doesn't count as it's not really there? I'll wager you that City's and United's spend pre 92 is not that disparate, yes United will probably be greater but not hugely so, that is assuming you want to take it back to the very start?

Edited by Red Devil
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...