Football Focus

[bourneagain]

The one person whose name has yet has yet to be mentioned and was the main driver behind this ESL, is Florentino Perez, the current President of Real Madrid and having the same role in the ESL. He is quoted as saying this ESL will save football and more importantly save Real Madrid. That is why he was furious when the big 6 English Clubs pulled out and effectively ended any chance of it going ahead.

Real Madrid like their counterparts Barcelona, although having the largest incomes, they have massive debt problems mainly due to their huge wage bill, which has been growing year on year. They have an ageing squad, most are 30+ years and needs to be replaced in the near future. Even today Perez was moaning the fact that without the ESL they were unlikely now to be able to bring Mbappe and Haaland to Madrid at a cost of over £500M.

On that basis alone it is very doubtful the UEFA will be any taking banning action against the 12 clubs, as without the income from CL football, the likes of Madrid and Bara could go under and UEFA will not allow that to happen. Also, the present semi-finals and finals in both European competitions involving these clubs will go ahead due to the existing contractual TV rights with SKY.

Also if UEFA were to ban these 12 from taking part in future CL and EL matches, would the likes of SKY still want to shell out the same huge sums?

While on the subject of future sanctions against these 12 clubs, one would hope that any such sanctions would be equally applied to all the 12 in the same manner. It would be extremely unfair if say the 6 English were penalised by our FA/PL with a point’s reduction or even moved down to a lower league when the 6 other counterparts got away with only a slap on the wrist by their own authorities, as they were deemed to be too important to their own leagues to suffer such sanctions.

[sb67]

I'm not sure about club sanctions as, who are you actually hurting? It wasn't the playing staff, managers, coaching staff etc and fans who subscribed to the ESL yet they will be the ones most affected by any points deduction or ban. Those involved will, I'm sure be able to claw any losses back somehow. Maybe a direct fine for the owners but yet again I'm sure they would then get that back though other means. 

As a fan I want my club to be the best but that creates an upward spiral of transfer fees, wages, agents fees etc, not sure what the answer is.

[LimboBrit]

Time to return to a sustainable business model for the whole football world. They should start with footballer's salaries and transfer fees. As long as the football sugar daddies keep injecting huge sums of money into their clubs, market forces will never come into play.

[Gareth Collier]

1 hour ago, bourneagain said:

 

Also, the present semi-finals and finals in both European competitions involving these clubs will go ahead due to the existing contractual TV rights with SKY.

Also if UEFA were to ban these 12 from taking part in future CL and EL matches, would the likes of SKY still want to shell out the same huge sums?

 

When it comes to European football Sky aren't actually involved, I believe it is BT that has the rights, Sky can't and don't even show highlights of CL or Europa League matches.

[Ron Ron Ron]

2 hours ago, bourneagain said:

.....Also, the present semi-finals and finals in both European competitions involving these clubs will go ahead due to the existing contractual TV rights with SKY.

Also if UEFA were to ban these 12 from taking part in future CL and EL matches, would the likes of SKY still want to shell out the same huge sums? ........

 

53 minutes ago, Gareth Collier said:

When it comes to European football Sky aren't actually involved, I believe it is BT that has the rights, Sky can't and don't even show highlights of CL or Europa League matches.

 

Gareth is correct.

SKY TV don't have the rights to EUFA's European competitions and haven't done for a few years.

In the the UK, the TV rights are with BT Sport.

 

 

.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Florentino Perez, the current President of Real Madrid, said yesterday that the ESL isn't dead, but on hold and will still go ahead.

 

He's also threatening the clubs who've pulled out, with "fines" for being in breach of legal contracts to participate in this scam.

 

EUFA have gone quiet for the moment, no doubt figuring out the best course of action and whether impose their own sanctions.

 

Meanwhile, fan protests are growing and there's a lot going on behind the scenes involving fans, football authorities, politicians who want to see reform, one billionaire owner rumoured to be selling up etc, etc.

This episode is far from over.

.

 

 

.

[luckymucklebackit]

5 hours ago, Hobby said:

50K plus fans each week and a worldwide following! I'd suggest they'd offer a lot more than most mid and lower table EPL teams!!

 

50K plus fans with a well deserved bad reputation for causing trouble, remember Rangers last trip to Manchester?  I am sure Chief Constables around England are praying that this proposal falls through.

 

Jim

[Michael Hodgson]

14 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Florentino Perez, the current President of Real Madrid, said yesterday that the ESL isn't dead, but on hold and will still go ahead..

Not a problem, even if the team is banned from international matches.  They can form a new team called Artificial Madrid.

[kevinlms]

3 hours ago, sb67 said:

I'm not sure about club sanctions as, who are you actually hurting? It wasn't the playing staff, managers, coaching staff etc and fans who subscribed to the ESL yet they will be the ones most affected by any points deduction or ban. Those involved will, I'm sure be able to claw any losses back somehow. Maybe a direct fine for the owners but yet again I'm sure they would then get that back though other means. 

As a fan I want my club to be the best but that creates an upward spiral of transfer fees, wages, agents fees etc, not sure what the answer is.

There seems little point in sanctions, because the ESL has fallen over and apart from lots of anguish, not much has actually happened. Sanctions have to be available as a significant threat, if and when clubs say resign from respective leagues.

 

Absolutely owners should have a significant fine imposed - equal to one years membership of ESL? Since they were flush with cash, they won't miss it!

[kevinlms]

6 hours ago, BoD said:

Which is also the ‘elephant in the room’ when it comes to the 50% + 1 ownership by fans that some people are demanding.  Would you expect the owners of big supermarkets to donate half their shares to the people in the fresh fruit aisles?  Could the government justify using tax payers money to buy half of every club?  The fans certainly couldn’t afford it.  I think that boat sailed a long time ago.

There is another way.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_Pitch_Owners

[Hobby]

3 hours ago, Gareth Collier said:

When it comes to European football Sky aren't actually involved, I believe it is BT that has the rights, Sky can't and don't even show highlights of CL or Europa League matches.

 

2 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Gareth is correct.

SKY TV don't have the rights to EUFA's European competitions and haven't done for a few years.

In the the UK, the TV rights are with BT Sport..

 

They don't but I get their highlights on my phone the next day on Sky!

 

 

2 hours ago, luckymucklebackit said:

50K plus fans with a well deserved bad reputation for causing trouble, remember Rangers last trip to Manchester?  I am sure Chief Constables around England are praying that this proposal falls through.

 

I'm sure if it was regular (as it would be if they joined the EPL they'd sort something out... The question was asked what would they bring, the answer is a lot more than the lower clubs in the current EPL, some good, some bad, though some English clubs are as bad... I'm still waiting for something to be done about Liverpool fan's "welcome" for the opposition club's team coaches, I think they've got away with that for far too long.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Once we start down the road, like ESL, of an American style franchise system, you may as well make a completely fresh start.

 

Rather than two Glasgow sides in the UK league, there should be one from Glasgow and one from Edinburgh.

 

And the same for all the other big British cities. So, for instance, you would create a Bristol franchise and a Cardiff franchise.

 

A precedent exists in Rugby League. XIII Catalan (Perpignan) & St Esteve (Perpignan suburb) merged their pro-teams to make it possible.

[LimboBrit]

8 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

A precedent exists in Rugby League. XIII Catalan (Perpignan) & St Esteve (Perpignan suburb) merged their pro-teams to make it possible.

So the suggestion is that for instance Liverpool and Everton should merge. Like that is ever going to happen!

[Joseph_Pestell]

3 minutes ago, LimboBrit said:

So the suggestion is that for instance Liverpool and Everton should merge. Like that is ever going to happen!

 

We could not even agree to share a stadium which was the sensible thing to do financially.

 

But no, that is not quite was I was suggesting. One would set up a new club for each city which might involve some elements of the existing clubs. XIII Catalan and St Esteve still exist as separate clubs, but not at full pro level.

[kevinlms]

19 minutes ago, LimboBrit said:

So the suggestion is that for instance Liverpool and Everton should merge. Like that is ever going to happen!

Spurs and Arsenal?

[PhilJ W]

2 hours ago, LimboBrit said:

So the suggestion is that for instance Liverpool and Everton should merge. Like that is ever going to happen!

Celtic and Rangers?

[melmerby]

I see that Florentino Perez is still insisting that the ESL will go ahead and all 12 clubs are still in it as they have "signed binding contracts" and cannot leave.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56873448

 

Considering that the US investment bank JP Morgan has withdrawn it's financial backing for the ESL does he really believe he can carry on?

[Hobby]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/european-super-league-uefa-ceferin-23977150

[PhilJ W]

1 hour ago, Hobby said:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/european-super-league-uefa-ceferin-23977150

So it looks like Liverpool just might get a place in the Champions League after all.

[SHMD]

Football has always over reached itself, (nothing new there then), but gambling to win with the traditions; loyalty; and finances of the fans; media; and investors – can let owners win big AND for free*.

 

 

The media cash cow ran dry, for a time, last year and the only solution dreamt up to fill the gaping big hole in the finances, was to increase revenues. All clubs are constantly looking at increasing revenues but the ESL was going to achieve this by: -

 

- More games.

- Games only against big revenue generating clubs.

- Making sure they alone keep all revenues.

 

Of course, everyone else knows what needs to be done – reduce the horrendous (and always painfully obvious) wage bill.

I think everyone is agreed on this BUT only if every one else implements it first! That's the snag.

 

 

All the 12 teams signed up for ESL for one reason only – to save their own skins AND they didn’t care that it was at the cost of all the other clubs**.

The shear arrogance of them to presume they alone should come through this unscathed. Everyone is hurting and they wanted to heap more pain on those they deemed below them.

Yes, these team should MUST BE to be punished.

 

The English ESL members wanted to remain, in the “nice little earner” EPL BUT: -

 

- Re-arrange (control/dominate) the fixture schedule.

- Prevent any none-ESL EPL club from having the occasional sip of cream from the very top table.

 

 

Now that Perez has lost his funding (JP Morgan) and wants to fine the departed clubs, should the EPL teams ask for their share of the ESL’s income up front?

It is telling that the clubs still “clinging to the dream” are the ones most in trouble.

If they don’t pay the fines then what sanctions can the ESL apply to them?

 

 

I think I am in favour of the six EPL teams being docked 25 to 50 points each, (depending on culpability), next season – so as not to mess up this seasons placings****.

Also any player wanting “sanctuary”, from restrictions/punishments applied to any future breakaway teams, is allowed a free transfer back into the established football fold***.

 

 

Kev.

(I'm a bit sore about this...)

 

 

* (The trouble is, there can only be one winning team that year per competition/division but that doesn’t matter to the owners as they will have “fixed-it” so that they personally have no liabilities BUT will profit handsomely if their club/investment increases dramatically.)

 

** (That actually bolsters their already dominant position.)

 

*** (Of course, this is a potential double edged sword!)

 

**** (I must admit I don’t know why)

 

[kevinlms]

5 hours ago, melmerby said:

I see that Florentino Perez is still insisting that the ESL will go ahead and all 12 clubs are still in it as they have "signed binding contracts" and cannot leave.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56873448

 

Considering that the US investment bank JP Morgan has withdrawn it's financial backing for the ESL does he really believe he can carry on?

This should be good. Which group of clubs have the best finances & best lawyers to win this court battle? Are they out to spend more on lawyers, than the Ever Given and the Suez Canal Authority?

[Gareth Collier]

Well, that's an hour and a half of my life I'll never get back having just watched a truly awful Carabao Cup final. Lucky it was being contested by 2 'super' teams as I'd hate to think how poor it would have been if 2 of the less super teams had reached the final..... 

[Torper]

6 hours ago, SHMD said:

I think I am in favour of the six EPL teams being docked 25 to 50 points each, (depending on culpability), next season – so as not to mess up this seasons placings****.

Also any player wanting “sanctuary”, from restrictions/punishments applied to any future breakaway teams, is allowed a free transfer back into the established football fold

 

 

Punsh them too harshly and they might just decide that the ESL wasn't that bad an idea after all.....

 

This time the ESL might be dead, but I think it's only delaying matters.  Whether we like it or not, football is no longer a sport, it's a global multi-national cash cow.  OK, the Big Six fans in this country may not like it, and perhaps at present this is where the money is.  But not, I fear, for long.  Interest in the big European football clubs isn't confined to Europe, or England; the market in China, Asia and the Middle East is already enormous and increasing.  This time the 12 ESL clubs were perhaps naive in thinking that they could join the ESL and still participate in their domestic competitions, or on the other hand they were perhaps testing the water.  One day, I fear, domestic competition, even in England, will be small fry compared to what the clubs will be able to get on an international stage, and then they'll say goodbye without a word of regret.  And the fans may complain, but if they don't buy their absurdly priced season tickets, someone else will snap them up.

 

Mind you, as a Forfar Athletic supporter none of this concerns me over much.

 

DT

[BoD]

1 hour ago, Torper said:

 

This time the ESL might be dead, but I think it's only delaying matters.

On every occasion so far that the big clubs’ demands have been ‘appeased’ they have always come back demanding more, so you are right, it’s only a matter of time. Ok, in this case,  it’s rebuttal rather than appeasement but the principle still applies.
 

1 hour ago, Torper said:

And the fans may complain, but if they don't buy their absurdly priced season tickets, someone else will snap them up.

... and for every fan who decides to object by giving up their digital/satellite subscription there will be dozens more across the world willing to pay. 

Edited April 25, 2021 by BoD

[peanuts]

6 minutes ago, BoD said:

On every occasion so far that the big clubs’ demands have been ‘appeased’ they have always come back demanding more, so you are right, it’s only a matter of time.
 

... and for every fan who decides to object by giving up their digital/satellite subscription there will be dozens more across the world willing to pay. 

and therein lies the nub of the whole thing look at what time the announcement came out last sunday 11pm uk time just right for the American & far east markets which is what the whole shabang was primarly aimed at tv/streaming rights from a huge market and the whole "Legacy" market can put up or shut up and this time they put up  .

Edited April 25, 2021 by peanuts