Football Focus

[Gareth Collier]

1 minute ago, Hobby said:

 

To be fair to them that's not their fault, as soon as the game became professional that was always going to be the outcome.

I half agree in that Jimmy Hill has a lot to answer for but a vast majority of the big transfer fees  that are seen involve the 12 teams deciding they were 'super'. Smaller clubs know they will pay more for a player which inflates the price and they will offer a larger salary to stop the player going to another 'super' club. They will pay more so have to earn more and to earn more they need to win so need better players so pay more to get them......

[Hobby]

Yes, but that was the logical outcome of "professional" football, you cannot blame the rich clubs for doing that, especially as even non league clubs milk it for everything it's worth too! Not to mention the players themselves and their "agents" (spit!)!

 

The only way it could be regulated is via a salary and transfer fee cap (to include sponsorship in both to plug that loophole). But all would then happen is that the players would go elsewhere...

[melmerby]

A house of cards falls easily...........

 

IMHO this sort of thing been on likely ever since football became a massive revenue generating machine rather than a sport the working man went to on a Saturday.

 

The owners have complained about falling gate receipts yet want even more shown on subscription TV services and getting even more dosh.

Now top tier football has now become a money making media event rather than a grass roots sport is it little wonder the average man in the street with his two kids doesn't want to go on a Saturday to watch some overpaid prima donnas flouncing around?

[Hobby]

But the average man in the street still goes to watch them, judging by the gate numbers from a year or two ago.

 

May be it will all topple over, but I can't see that happening for a long time yet...

[62613]

15 hours ago, SHMD said:

What the existing football bodies should do if after 1 week the “Dirty Dozen” do not withdraw their proposals.

 

1/ Expel the 6 clubs from the Premiership with immediate effect.

Any of the “Dirty Dozen” wishing to rejoin the English Leagues would have to join at League Two and work their way back up – baring in mind that if they all re-join at the same time, there would only be the usual promotions so some will be left behind for another year.

Far too far up the pyramid: They should restart at level 4 of non-league; for the Northern clubs, that's Northern Premier League Division 1 West (could you imagine Seel Park packed to the rafters!), and for the Southern ones, the appropriate regional divisions in the Southern/Isthmian Leagues. There is only one guaranteed promotion spot from each division, so it would be "interesting"!

[Ron Ron Ron]

9 hours ago, john new said:

The cynic in me says because a deal has now been done to give one side or the other what they really wanted in the first place; bluff called and one side blinked first. Only in the slighter longer term will we know if it was the football regulators or the rebel clubs who have backed down.

 

1 hour ago, Hobby said:

 

I recon that's spot on, I was thinking the same thing all day yesterday but didn't post it, also a bit of "testing the water" to see if it would be viable, something Governments do all the time with their so called "leaks", well they got their answer...

 

I think you are completely wrong on this one guys.

A lot of people thought this was brinkmanship and a bargaining ploy, but if you've followed this closely and seen and heard the reaction of the senior figures at FIFA and EUFA etc, this most definitely wasn't "trying it on", or just calling the football authorities bluff. 

 

Those leading this SL move were deadly serious and intent on carrying it through and they thought they could get away with it.

They were gambling on EUFA panicking and trying to negotiate. To have talks.

Thankfully EUFA, with the backing of FIFA have not played that game and have stood firm.

There will have been no deal and the threats of punitive action were real and not a bluff or hot air.

They wouldn't have needed the backing of 2 European prime ministers (UK & Italy) and a president (France), plus probable involvement of the EU, if they were just grandstanding. 

 

Gianni Infantino's statement on Monday made it very clear FIFA were deadly serious. This wasn't the sort of talk that left avenues open.

Similarly, Aleksander Čeferin, CEO of EUFA was seething with anger and made it very personal, as a number of the "gang of 12" senior figures involved, had lied through their teeth to him over the previous couple of days, before announcing they were going to split away on Sunday evening.

 

EUFA have no need to do a deal or give any ground. 

They've outlined their plans for an expanded CL and that should go some way to satisfying the "big clubs" desire greed for more income from the competition.

 

 

.

[jonny777]

The Premiership money has been redistributed differently over the past season or so. This site shows that Norwich received over £94 million for finishing bottom last year.  

 

Presumably, Sheffield United will get a similar amount at the end of this season, to add to the £132 million they had from finishing 9th in 2019/20. 

 

Over £220 million in two seasons is not bad for a now relegated club, and there are Championship parachute payments. 

 

https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/club-by-club-a-breakdown-of-the-2019-20-premier-league-prize-money/

[Hobby]

We don't know what's gone on behind the scenes, though.

[Ron Ron Ron]

14 minutes ago, Hobby said:

We don't know what's gone on behind the scenes, though.

 

True, but there's nothing in this to say that any ground has been given to the SL protagonists.

Quite the reverse.

More likely the behind the scenes activity has been the confirmation that those clubs would be heavily penalised and damaged.

The threat of throwing out 3 of the  clubs from the CL semi-finals, or barring them from next season's competition for example. 

[Hobby]

We are both guessing though. 

[SHMD]

32 minutes ago, 62613 said:

Far too far up the pyramid: They should restart at level 4 of non-league; for the Northern clubs, that's Northern Premier League Division 1 West (could you imagine Seel Park packed to the rafters!),...

 

In the late 70s / early 80s Seel Park was full to the rafters for a lot of the cup games. (FA and FA Trophy)

Although away league games usually could only muster one coach load. It was "interesting" turning up to all those small clubs (with strange sounding names) with lots of angry very animated fans outside!  

 

 

Kev.

[kevinlms]

4 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

 

I think you are completely wrong on this one guys.

A lot of people thought this was brinkmanship and a bargaining ploy, but if you've followed this closely and seen and heard the reaction of the senior figures at FIFA and EUFA etc, this most definitely wasn't "trying it on", or just calling the football authorities bluff. 

 

Those leading this SL move were deadly serious and intent on carrying it through and they thought they could get away with it.

They were gambling on EUFA panicking and trying to negotiate. To have talks.

Thankfully EUFA, with the backing of FIFA have not played that game and have stood firm.

There will have been no deal and the threats of punitive action were real and not a bluff or hot air.

They wouldn't have needed the backing of 2 European prime ministers (UK & Italy) and a president (France), plus probable involvement of the EU, if they were just grandstanding. 

 

Gianni Infantino's statement on Monday made it very clear FIFA were deadly serious. This wasn't the sort of talk that left avenues open.

Similarly, Aleksander Čeferin, CEO of EUFA was seething with anger and made it very personal, as a number of the "gang of 12" senior figures involved, had lied through their teeth to him over the previous couple of days, before announcing they were going to split away on Sunday evening.

 

EUFA have no need to do a deal or give any ground. 

They've outlined their plans for an expanded CL and that should go some way to satisfying the "big clubs" desire greed for more income from the competition.

 

 

.

I agree, there is no doubt that the ESL thought they were on a winner, in that the majority of fans would be happy for their side to play in top level games, without any risk of relegation, no matter how badly they played.

But the fans (except those in Asian countries, who can only watch on TV) made it quite clear that they were not impressed at all.

 

Amazing how so many EPL clubs are now saying they only joined, because they didn't want to 'miss out'! Not our idea - yeah, sure!

 

At least the ESL type plan, is going to be so much harder to 'sell' next time. It certainly won't be a 'tell you what you need to know' basis again.

[Michael Hodgson]

If only one team should remain in this new super league, it would win every match.  By default.

Surely winning every match is a football supporter's dream?

 

The mistake was to have so many teams in it.

And they wouldn't need to spend loadsamoney on skilled players - any old blokes off the street on minimum wage would do.

[Calnefoxile]

Call me a cynic if you like, but was this all just a smoke screen so that UEFA could squirt the Champions League reforms through??

 

Even though the Gang of 12 said that the reforms didn't go far enough, to allow them to always play in Europe regardless of where they finish in their respective leagues, and therefore the Super League idea was born.

 

I'm actually still a bit confused by the reforms because I was lead to understand that if Leicester, for example, managed to finish 4th place in the PL, as this is a place in the CL Prelim stages, we would be usurped by either Liverpool, Arsenal, or Spurs even though they finished outside of the CL Places because of the UEFA Euro Co-Efficient.

 

However reading the changes properly, it seems that these clubs would only be allowed 1 of the 2 'extra' places and so we could end up with 5 teams in the CL instead of 4, but only if they've qualified for any other European Place, i.e. Europa League.

 

I think 

 

Cheers

 

Neal.

[Enterprisingwestern]

2 hours ago, Calnefoxile said:

Call me a cynic if you like, but was this all just a smoke screen so that UEFA could squirt the Champions League reforms through??

 

Even though the Gang of 12 said that the reforms didn't go far enough, to allow them to always play in Europe regardless of where they finish in their respective leagues, and therefore the Super League idea was born.

 

I'm actually still a bit confused by the reforms because I was lead to understand that if Leicester, for example, managed to finish 4th place in the PL, as this is a place in the CL Prelim stages, we would be usurped by either Liverpool, Arsenal, or Spurs even though they finished outside of the CL Places because of the UEFA Euro Co-Efficient.

 

However reading the changes properly, it seems that these clubs would only be allowed 1 of the 2 'extra' places and so we could end up with 5 teams in the CL instead of 4, but only if they've qualified for any other European Place, i.e. Europa League.

 

I think 

 

Cheers

 

Neal.

 

Clear as mud.

Can you move on to the offside law now please?!!

 

Mike.

[2750Papyrus]

Given the choice of watching weekly football against the top teams of Europe or the lower reaches of the Prem, I think some form of European league is inevitable.  However, the politics of who will run it, whether it should be performance based or subject to political/geographical selection, and how to allow promotion and relegation within these constraints, it will take a long time to resolve - Brexit has probably delayed it by some years.  So maybe not in my lifetime, but eventually....

 

And as African, Asian and North American teams develop, it could itself become a feeder  for a genuine World Series league. 

[Oldddudders]

I am not a footie person, although 54 years ago I did stand on the Old Trafford terrace for the final game of the season. 

 

But I posted this on the F1 thread a bit earlier. For the many that don't know, in 2019, Ferrari suddenly enhanced their performance, got found out for cheating and have gone more slowly ever since. 

 

I note Agnelli, the Juventus bloke who seems to have been the chief architect of the now-collapsed scheme, is of course from the owning Fiat family, who own Ferrari, and he has been fined in the past, as were the club, for ticketing irregularities, in which mafioso connections were suspected but never proved......

 

British clubs do not need to get involved with such types. 

[TheSignalEngineer]

1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

he has been fined in the past, as were the club, for ticketing irregularities, in which mafioso connections were suspected but never proved......

I don't know about ticketing but the club were stripped of two league titles and relegated after being implicated in a referee nobbling conspiracy in 2008. Apparently a number of clubs were able to influence the appointment of match officials to get favourable results.

[kevinlms]

7 hours ago, Calnefoxile said:

Call me a cynic if you like, but was this all just a smoke screen so that UEFA could squirt the Champions League reforms through??

 

Even though the Gang of 12 said that the reforms didn't go far enough, to allow them to always play in Europe regardless of where they finish in their respective leagues, and therefore the Super League idea was born.

 

I'm actually still a bit confused by the reforms because I was lead to understand that if Leicester, for example, managed to finish 4th place in the PL, as this is a place in the CL Prelim stages, we would be usurped by either Liverpool, Arsenal, or Spurs even though they finished outside of the CL Places because of the UEFA Euro Co-Efficient.

 

However reading the changes properly, it seems that these clubs would only be allowed 1 of the 2 'extra' places and so we could end up with 5 teams in the CL instead of 4, but only if they've qualified for any other European Place, i.e. Europa League.

 

I think 

 

Cheers

 

Neal.

The appalling part was the no promotion/relegation for those 15 founder member clubs (only the first 12 were named - 3 more to come) clubs deemed as 'permanent' members.

How arrogant can they get? Everyone one should be there on their merit, not by merely paying their subs.

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Does anybody think the statements of remorse by the clubs owners are more akin to "I've been caught with my fingers in the till" declarations?

It's amazing how it's taken them until this week to realise that such things as passionate supporters, the clubs history and heritage and the structure of the pyramid system exist.

Ban 'em all says I.

 

Mike.

[Ron Ron Ron]

27 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Does anybody think the statements of remorse by the clubs owners are more akin to "I've been caught with my fingers in the till" declarations?

Watching a few Man Utd and Liverpool YouTube fan channels last night, it appears the mood is still of anger towards the Glazers and John Henry and FSG at Liverpool.

They are not buying the apologies at all. In fact it has entrenched and worsened the hatred towards these owners.

My understanding is that this wasn’t so much the case at Liverpool, with FSG, but that has now changed.

The scathing reaction to John Henry’s “ staged” contrition and apology is almost as bad as the attitude amongst Utd fans towards the Glazers.

 

Meanwhile, Agnelli gave an interview yesterday, saying the SL was dead for now, but he still thought it was the best “solution” and way forward.

No apology from him. He still wants the SL or something like it.

 

 

.

[Mark Saunders]

The Americans in charge of Manchester United have always had me believe  they were it was always about the money , since day one!

 

The following sums up the situation:-

 

They want to eat their cake and have it and continue to milk the goose that lays the golden eggs.

[Hobby]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/celtic-rangers-british-super-league-23959398

[woodenhead]

The American owners of Manchester United, bought a golden egg by mortgaging the egg to buy it, and then began chipping off the golden eggshell.

 

I do find it rather disturbing that these days when someone wishes to buy acompany and are asked how it will be financed and they reply by saying using the company as collateral.

[Michael Hodgson]

...can we have our ball back, please.