Football Focus

[Red Devil]

As a Chelsea fan to a Man U fan, I can confidently predict that... I don't have a clue what will happen on Tuesday. Both our teams won on their last outings, but can either of us claim that our lot are actually playing well ?

 

Funny old game, but even if the quality's not been there this season, the Premiership has at least been unpredictable.

 

Nope, this is the most boring uninspiring United team since about '88/9, midfield is poor, yes I know it's relative, but when you've been used to the likes of Sharp, Robson, Ince, Kanchelskis (92-3), Giggs, Keane, Scholes, Beckham (99ish) the current crop just underwhelms me in it's creativity, only Nani is a 'United type' player, just wish he'd cut the histrionics. Defense and attack aren't too bad though..

 

Moan, moan, moan, could go back to the days of Ralph Milne, Mark Higgins and Graeme Hogg, 'ang on the team doesn't look too bad now!

[luton town]

being a committee member off a non-league team,i do not really care much for the bigger teams but today i was happy to see birmingham beat the gunners,it just shows that the under dogs can do well,my team got to the 5th round of the fa vase for the first time in the clubs history,only to be beaten by a team that has won the cup twice,our league performance is not the greatest but we have done well and who knows in 10 years we could be in the premiership oh i wish..we have got over 8 or 9 promotions to go if we do want to be there

[S.A.C Martin]

I know that retrospectively, once a referee has given his decision, and his report in later, you can't change either.

 

But Wayne Rooney's elbow on James McCarthy - and the fact he has escaped punishment entirely - is unbelievable on so many levels, I have to ask what would happen if it was the other way round?

 

This is not a witch hunt. Wayne Rooney raised his elbow into the face of James McCarthy, unprovoked. It is a straight red card for violent conduct. How has he escaped serious retribution? Yet I only have to look at the results in the papers today to see a dozen other red cards, half of which have been described as "soft" - and yet this...?

 

Absolutely disgusting, and frankly, Clattenburg shames all of us referees, full, part-time, or otherwise, up and down the country, for not giving a red card for that incident. He claims he saw it - if he did, Rooney should have gone. There is no alternative.

 

Ferguson saying "there was nothing in it" appalls me. He - and Rooney - have struck a new low. His handling of the situation, going on the offensive against the media and public - when the facts of the matter speak for themselves, is deplorable.

 

Can only sympathize with Martinez and agree with his assertions fully.

 

Martinez - Rooney, Red

[Oakydoke]

Wigan players were doling out plenty of "afters" in the first half of that game. Mark Clattenbeg let several very bad tackles go without even a free kick, let alone any cards for the Wigan players involved. McCarthy had also commited a few dirty challenges himself prior to the incident involving Rooney, although that's no excuse for any form of retribution or retaliation.

The Wigan game plan was clearly to "rough up" United and try and prevent them settling into their rythmm. You can't complain if the same comes back and bites you on the B*m.

 

Bring back Norman Hunter and Chopper Harris ! It's a man's game after all (oops! I'm glad I don't work for Sky TV...... ).

[S.A.C Martin]

Wigan players were doling out plenty of "afters" in the first half of that game. Mark Clattenbeg let several very bad tackles go without even a free kick, let alone any cards for the Wigan players involved.

 

Oh definitely, there should have been a ton more cards involved. Clattenburg's overall conduct and performance as a referee was shameful, I've not seen worse this season, and frankly the pally-pally presentation with Rooney is not on. He's a referee - by all means be calm and light hearted, but that conduct throws into question his impartiality.

 

McCarthy had also commited a few dirty challenges himself prior to the incident involving Rooney, although that's no excuse for any form of retribution or retaliation.

 

Absolutely, but there's no excuse good enough for Rooney's elbow.

 

The Wigan game plan was clearly to "rough up" United and try and prevent them settling into their rythmm. You can't complain if the same comes back and bites you on the B*m.

 

If it wasn't on the football pitch, it would be termed assault. There's a big difference between tackling hard, and going in to injure someone. Rooney went in with the sole intention of elbowing McCarthy in the face. Looking at the replays only confirms this further.

[Horsetan]

Yep, ' played, Birmingham. Arsenal to kick on or fold, don't know myself, they do seem to have a bit of a soft centre, I think if Wegner wasn't so stubborn and had gone out and bought a quality keeper and a centre half like Gary Cahill then things could and would be different....

 

I thought that last-minute "flap" before the Martins goal was a true comedy of errors

[Red Devil]

Oh definitely, there should have been a ton more cards involved. Clattenburg's overall conduct and performance as a referee was shameful, I've not seen worse this season, and frankly the pally-pally presentation with Rooney is not on. He's a referee - by all means be calm and light hearted, but that conduct throws into question his impartiality.

 

 

 

Absolutely, but there's no excuse good enough for Rooney's elbow.

 

 

 

If it wasn't on the football pitch, it would be termed assault. There's a big difference between tackling hard, and going in to injure someone. Rooney went in with the sole intention of elbowing McCarthy in the face. Looking at the replays only confirms this further.

 

 

I'll let you into bit of a secret, Mark Clattenburg does not like a certain spud faced scouser who plays in red, source the man himself, rates him as 'the worst player he's had to referee'. Now, Rooney was out of order, but to me he was getting his retaliation in first, look at the incident, McCarthy shapes to block Rooney,so he think 'before I get clattered I'll do him'

 

Before anyone accuses me of red tinted myopia, a certain Mr W Rooney of Cheshire has somewhat burnt his bridges with me, ( and a lot of hardcore Utd fans) and I couldn't care less if he gets banned/transfered/or pretty much anything else for various reasons.

 

Regarding Fergies comment, yet again the master at work, He's got you talking about what he's said and less so about the incident, classic deflection, what's he going to do slaughter his own player? That's why he going for his umpteenth major honour and why we're tapping away about football on a model railway forum.....................

[S.A.C Martin]

I'll let you into bit of a secret, Mark Clattenburg does not like a certain spud faced scouser who plays in red, source the man himself, rates him as 'the worst player he's had to referee'.

 

Funny that, he seemed to be getting on swimmingly with Mr Rooney there...!

 

Now, Rooney was out of order, but to me he was getting his retaliation in first, look at the incident, McCarthy shapes to block Rooney,so he think 'before I get clattered I'll do him'

 

Can't say I agree with that - McCarthy isn't even looking at Rooney and is watching the ball across the pitch. How from Rooney's position could he possibly predict Rooney would come that close to him?

 

Before anyone accuses me of red tinted myopia, a certain Mr W Rooney of Cheshire has somewhat burnt his bridges with me, ( and a lot of hardcore Utd fans) and I couldn't care less if he gets banned/transfered/or pretty much anything else for various reasons.

 

Then you won't mind if I feel he should have had a three match for violent conduct, as has been given out to a fair few players this year?

 

Regarding Fergies comment, yet again the master at work, He's got you talking about what he's said and less so about the incident, classic deflection, what's he going to do slaughter his own player? That's why he going for his umpteenth major honour and why we're tapping away about football on a model railway forum.....................

 

His success doesn't make it right, and what a poor example to set to young footballers up and down the country.

 

I think I'll stay in league 1 with Charlton - actual football seems to be played in this division, instead of glorified sporting politics.

[oggy1953]

Fergies comments are no worse than Wengers ' i did not see it' when one of his players commits a bad tackle. I do think its about time all managers had a meeting and snubbed out these dreadful incidents. Of course we'd have nothing to talk about then.

[Red Devil]

 

His success doesn't make it right, and what a poor example to set to young footballers up and down the country.

 

I think I'll stay in league 1 with Charlton - actual football seems to be played in this division, instead of glorified sporting politics.

 

Not his job to be a role model, his job is to manage Manchester United Football Club, perhaps when you have kids ( I'm assuming that you don't ) that you wouldn't want either a professional football player or manager as a role model, I certainly don't, that's my job.

 

As to staying in league one, well unless you actually play for or manage Charlton, I don't think you'll have that much influence on it.

[S.A.C Martin]

Not his job to be a role model, his job is to manage Manchester United Football Club, perhaps when you have kids ( I'm assuming that you don't ) that you wouldn't want either a professional football player or manager as a role model, I certainly don't, that's my job.

 

None of my own as yet (thank god - not ready for it!), but I do have a godson I look after regularly who loves his football.

 

Some football players and managers ARE good role models, mind (I look back and think of the Chris Powells, Gareth Southgates and similar) - the problem is that the most high profile ones always seem to behave badly, and yet we excuse it/quantify it with "it's his job".

 

Sorry, I find that whole scenario unpleasant. Happy to agree with you that Ferguson is not a good role model - but invariably, he is still a role model as he is always in the public eye.

 

Geraint (godson) is sadly an Arsenal fan, was not happy today that I can tell you!

 

As to staying in league one, well unless you actually play for or manage Charlton, I don't think you'll have that much influence on it.

 

? ? ?

 

Not sure I actually said I'd have any influence on it, rather that I'd prefer to watch and follow football that doesn't give a ringing endorsement for common assault on a football pitch.

[Red Devil]

None of my own as yet (thank god - not ready for it!), but I do have a godson I look after regularly who loves his football.

 

Some football players and managers ARE good role models, mind (I look back and think of the Chris Powells, Gareth Southgates and similar) - the problem is that the most high profile ones always seem to behave badly, and yet we excuse it/quantify it with "it's his job".

 

Sorry, I find that whole scenario unpleasant. Happy to agree with you that Ferguson is not a good role model - but invariably, he is still a role model as he is always in the public eye.

 

Geraint (godson) is sadly an Arsenal fan, was not happy today that I can tell you!

 

 

 

? ? ?

 

Not sure I actually said I'd have any influence on it, rather that I'd prefer to watch and follow football that doesn't give a ringing endorsement for common assault on a football pitch.

 

No, completely disagree, whilst some profesional sportsmen are good role models that is not what they are paid to do, they are paid to win and the vast majority will bend the rules to suit themselves, infact I'd wager that 99.9% have 'cheated' to some degree, that's because to get to the top you've got to have the desire and this will manifest itself in behaviour that seems to cause you apoplexy.

 

Fine, if you want Gareth Southgate as a role model, I personally don't, In fact the vast majority of footballers I've met, I'd give a pretty wide berth to. If they behave badly, that's their choice, in my 20s with their wealth I'd have been ten times worse than the vast majority, unfortunately youth and wealth are not great bedmates.

 

So if you're in the public eye you have to behave well, no again, not for me, rockstars etc, I'll take Phil Lynott, Keith Moon, Mick Jagger, Lemmy, Pete Townsend, John Lydon, Sean Ryder over any pre packaged pre pubesscent pop boy band fodder. Each to their own.

 

'I think I'll stay in league 1 with Charlton - actual football seems to be played in this division, instead of glorified sporting politics' is actually what you said, as stated I don't think you'd be able to stop them getting promoted or relegated. So in league one, no one cheats everyone is a gentleman and all is well with the world, deary me, if that's what you believe I really do think myopia has set in, it's as bent, violent and corrupt as any other league, just that they're not as good as the teams in higher leagues, that's the fact of the matter. As to common assault on the pitch, why don't you make a complaint to the police, seriously it's a contact game, yeah he was out of order, but it happens day in day out at all levels.

[S.A.C Martin]

No, completely disagree, whilst some profesional sportsmen are good role models that is not what they are paid to do, they are paid to win and the vast majority will bend the rules to suit themselves, infact I'd wager that 99.9% have 'cheated' to some degree, that's because to get to the top you've got to have the desire and this will manifest itself in behaviour that seems to cause you apoplexy.

 

Plenty of footballers have made it to the top and have been shown to be good role models. David Beckham made one mistake in an England shirt, in 1998 and then went on to become arguably Britain's best footballer - not just on the pitch, but off it too.

 

Frankly, if you're in the public eye, and you have the adoration of thousands of young fans, you have a duty of care to treat your job, your club, and your fans with the respect they deserve. Rooney hasn't.

 

Fine, if you want Gareth Southgate as a role model, I personally don't, In fact the vast majority of footballers I've met, I'd give a pretty wide berth to. If they behave badly, that's their choice, in my 20s with their wealth I'd have been ten times worse than the vast majority, unfortunately youth and wealth are not great bedmates.

 

Not all footballers are bad role models. The community work taken on by the most hard working of them, is noted and rightly celebrated. Football reaches a larger audience and has a greater effect on the planet than it has ever done, and in some cases footballers recognize their (very priviliged) position and do something for the greater good.

 

So if you're in the public eye you have to behave well, no again, not for me, rockstars etc, I'll take Phil Lynott, Keith Moon, Mick Jagger, Lemmy, Pete Townsend, John Lydon, Sean Ryder over any pre packaged pre pubesscent pop boy band fodder. Each to their own.

 

So would I - but I couldn't condone the behaviour of half of them.

 

So in league one, no one cheats everyone is a gentleman and all is well with the world, deary me, if that's what you believe I really do think myopia has set in, it's as bent, violent and corrupt as any other league, just that they're not as good as the teams in higher leagues, that's the fact of the matter.

 

Is the attitude really necessary? Never said they were gentlemen, far from it. But going out of my way to catch the League 1 games, I do tend to see much less of the managerial politics going on in the lower leagues than in the top division.

 

Yes, I do think to some extent more cheating goes on in the higher division, as referees are of known quantities and decisions which should be made suddenly aren't. Different kettle of fish altogether. No denying a lacking in skill, but at that level the basic football has to be there more often than not, and players concentrate on actually playing the game more.

 

Methinks you doth protest too much!

 

As to common assault on the pitch, why don't you make a complaint to the police, seriously it's a contact game, yeah he was out of order, but it happens day in day out at all levels.

 

That's for the player to decide, whether to take action or not. However if that had been in the street...!

 

I guarantee if this scenario had been reversed, Ferguson et al would be blasting the official, the leagues rules, and the player himself for his behaviour.

 

End of the day, Rooney was not punished for an action which would have resulted with a red card for most other players in the league - and has done on several occasions. Ferguson chooses to deny it completely - I find that reprehensible (as I did Wenger's reaction to the above mentioned incident, I might add).

[Red Devil]

Can't be bothered arguing, you want to live in your world fine, but where's the outrage about this

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTAMtVFud8g&feature=player_embedded

 

Oh, yeah, it's not a high profile player with his arm, like I say goes on all the time.

 

One thing David Beckham, seriously?, So it's ok to cheat on your wife and kids?

[Michael Delamar]

[S.A.C Martin]

I think its hilarious that Manchester United have gone on the slide since the Rooney elbow incident - retribution for Sir Alex Ferguson's behaviour? I like to think so.

 

Well played Liverpool, that has made it a very interesting title race this year.

 

---

 

Back to League 1 - we finally got a point and stopped the rot...! Need to start scoring more goals and get some luck. It was pretty dire down at the Valley when we went down 0-1 early on (was he offside? Can't tell from camera angle), but Miguel Llera's return was gratefully received by all!

[Steve K]

One thing David Beckham, seriously?, So it's ok to cheat on your wife and kids?

Apart from that alleged incident, I can only see positives in Beckham's behaviour in the last few years. OK, so maybe that's because he's not playing in England any more, and he does remain the only man to have been sent off twice while on England duty, but still...

 

On a more up-to-date note, it was a great weekend for my lot (Chelsea), and they haven't even played yet. As it happens, though, I've got money on a 5-1 win tonight. Wish me luck (or not, as you prefer) - I may need it!

[BoD]

......a great weekend for my lot (Chelsea), and they haven't even played yet.. As it happens, though, I've got money on a 5-1 win tonight.

 

I can't see Chelsea getting that consolation goal myself.

[Ron Ron Ron]

I think its hilarious that Manchester United have gone on the slide since the Rooney elbow incident - retribution for Sir Alex Ferguson's behaviour? I like to think so.

Clearly your previous postings have been from a very biased position. Not very sporting from a ref?

 

If one believes in poetic justice, or fate levelling out a bad deed/event etc, then Utd have had it returned triple times over in the last two games.

 

 

Well played Liverpool, that has made it a very interesting title race this year.

Certainly the better side on the day.

Certainly the only side "up for it".

Certainly the only side displaying passion and drive (at times).

But, "well played" for Carragher's assault on Nani (should have been straight red) or for Rodrigues' studs on Rahael da'Silva?

Raphael was guilty in return too, but it's doubtful he would have dived in for the ball had Maxi Rodrigues not raked his studs down the lads thigh, throwing him off the ball. A dangerous lunge, but no contact made, in contrast to the two deliberate assaults (one a potential career ender).

 

United deserved to lose, Liverpool deserved to win (although two of their three goals were gifted flooks), but Liverpool should have been down to 10 or possibly 9 men before half time.

 

Chelsea's Luiz and Ivanovic had gone out with the same intent in United's previous game.

 

All Sir Alex Ferguson said about the Rooney incident, was that the media would probably make a meal out of it...and they did.

I haven't seen the tabloids or TV pundits screaming for Jamie Carragher to be held to account or banned, nor calls for Man City's Micah Richards to be punished for his terrible tackle on a Wigan player on Saturday.

Alex Ferguson called it about right IMHO

 

.

 

 

 

[kevinlms]

Apart from that alleged incident, I can only see positives in Beckham's behaviour in the last few years. OK, so maybe that's because he's not playing in England any more, and he does remain the only man to have been sent off twice while on England duty, but still...

 

On a more up-to-date note, it was a great weekend for my lot (Chelsea), and they haven't even played yet. As it happens, though, I've got money on a 5-1 win tonight. Wish me luck (or not, as you prefer) - I may need it!

 

Well, I'm glad it wasn't a score of 5-1, because that would mean our Chelsea would have lost. As I've just finished telling an Australian off nicely, because he wrote the score as 3-1 in an email to me. Since the home team normally goes first, that would be disasterous news!

 

It is common for some media outlets in Australia to write the results as Chelsea 3 D (efeated) Blackpool 1, so you have to be very careful reading the results in the paper.

I don't understand why they insist on placing the winning team first.

 

Kevin Martin

[S.A.C Martin]

Clearly your previous postings have been from a very biased position. Not very sporting from a ref?

 

Touche, Ron! But after the battering I got from a United fan in this very thread recently for wanting to see better conduct and behaviour from said United Players/Manager, do you blame me?

 

But, "well played" for Carragher's assault on Nani (should have been straight red) or for Rodrigues' studs on Rahael da'Silva?

 

No, absolutely not. I think we are all agreed on that! Disgraceful gamesmanship which could have resulted in far worse injuries than otherwise occurred.

 

I think we're all agreed we want referees to give consistent decisions - and in my opinion, Liverpool could have/should have, been down to nine men.

 

Raphael was guilty in return too, but it's doubtful he would have dived in for the ball had Maxi Rodrigues not raked his studs down the lads thigh, throwing him off the ball. A dangerous lunge, but no contact made, in contrast to the two deliberate assaults (one a potential career ender).

 

United deserved to lose, Liverpool deserved to win (although two of their three goals were gifted flooks), but Liverpool should have been down to 10 or possibly 9 men before half time.

 

Completely agree.

 

Chelsea's Luiz and Ivanovic had gone out with the same intent in United's previous game.

 

Ivanovic yes, Luiz - not entirely sure intent was there, but a definite foul all the same.

 

All Sir Alex Ferguson said about the Rooney incident, was that the media would probably make a meal out of it...and they did.

 

Actually, my beef was his comment "there was nothing in it" - which, clearly on the basis of the TV replay, there was with regards the elbow in the face!

 

At the end of the day, my beef with SAF was that he defended the indefensible.

 

I haven't seen the tabloids or TV pundits screaming for Jamie Carragher to be held to account or banned, nor calls for Man City's Micah Richards to be punished for his terrible tackle on a Wigan player on Saturday.

 

And you are quite right in bringing that up. Both should be punished accordingly. I'm not sure why they haven't, given the amount of diatribe we've had about red cards in the last month and a half.

 

It's inconsistent, and on that Ron, I do agree, I am as frustrated as you no doubt are, and I sympathize with you.

[Red Devil]

Touche, Ron! But after the battering I got from a United fan in this very thread recently for wanting to see better conduct and behaviour from said United Players/Manager, do you blame me?

 

 

 

No, absolutely not. I think we are all agreed on that! Disgraceful gamesmanship which could have resulted in far worse injuries than otherwise occurred.

 

I think we're all agreed we want referees to give consistent decisions - and in my opinion, Liverpool could have/should have, been down to nine men.

 

 

 

Completely agree.

 

 

 

Ivanovic yes, Luiz - not entirely sure intent was there, but a definite foul all the same.

 

 

 

Actually, my beef was his comment "there was nothing in it" - which, clearly on the basis of the TV replay, there was with regards the elbow in the face!

 

At the end of the day, my beef with SAF was that he defended the indefensible.

 

 

 

And you are quite right in bringing that up. Both should be punished accordingly. I'm not sure why they haven't, given the amount of diatribe we've had about red cards in the last month and a half.

 

It's inconsistent, and on that Ron, I do agree, I am as frustrated as you no doubt are, and I sympathize with you.

 

I really wasn't going to bite, and didn't reply last night to your latest anti United diatribe, however, battering? No I really don't think so, as is so often the case it seems that it's quite acceptable for you to slag everything and everyone of that's connected with MUFC, perfectly acceptable, but should I chose to take an opposite viewpoint then I'm giving you a 'battering'. Your gleeful rejoice at United getting beaten, fine, I can take it even more so from died in the wool Liverpool fans, it's what football is all about, but hey lets have a bit of balance, you're the one shouting the odds about nasty old Fergie and that naughty young thug Rooney, as I said it goes on and you deal with it, but as Ron so eloquently put as a referee, where's the impartiality and balance, I didn't see you slagging Carragher, Rodriguez et all, or is it only those thugs from trafford that you have a downer on ?

 

I don't think it's me that comes on this thread shouting the odds about bad decisions, I've seen plenty over the years, again at the risk of repeating myself, what goes around comes around. Or as an aquaintance of mine said of football 'a simple game ruined by those who weren't good enough to play it', a fraction of truth in that, I'll not name drop but it was a player who's played at the very highest levels.

[S.A.C Martin]

I really wasn't going to bite, and didn't reply last night to your latest anti United diatribe, however, battering? No I really don't think so, as is so often the case it seems that it's quite acceptable for you to slag everything and everyone of that's connected with MUFC, perfectly acceptable, but should I chose to take an opposite viewpoint then I'm giving you a 'battering'. Your gleeful rejoice at United getting beaten, fine, I can take it even more so from died in the wool Liverpool fans, it's what football is all about, but hey lets have a bit of balance, you're the one shouting the odds about nasty old Fergie and that naughty young thug Rooney, as I said it goes on and you deal with it, but as Ron so eloquently put as a referee, where's the impartiality and balance, I didn't see you slagging Carragher, Rodriguez et all, or is it only those thugs from trafford that you have a downer on ?

 

Did you actually read my above post?

 

No, absolutely not. I think we are all agreed on that! Disgraceful gamesmanship which could have resulted in far worse injuries than otherwise occurred.

 

I think we're all agreed we want referees to give consistent decisions - and in my opinion, Liverpool could have/should have, been down to nine men.

 

Same page we're all on, no?

 

what goes around comes around.

 

Absolutely.

[Red Devil]

Yes, I read the post, but it took somebody to pull you up about the one previous. If you're going to pontificate at least show some semblance of impartiality, not like the constant rants about Utd, I mean where's your thoughts on the Celtic v Rangers match and it's after effects, nowhere I can see, somewhat more far reaching than an attempted elbow, but no, I can't see it, all I see is a constant chipping away at MUFC and it's beginning to wear thin, if you have a problem with me replying to what you say, perhaps try not to be so overtly antaganostic, as per your post yesterday morning, I'm pretty certain I could go through this thread and find numerous more instances of this type of posting.

[Steve K]

I mean where's your thoughts on the Celtic v Rangers match and it's after effects

I konw you're not asking me specifically, but I'll give you my own take on that:

 

The behaviour seen at and around the match was, as usual, nasty, ugly, and moreover utterly pathetic. The likes of Alan Brazil (and he did it again on Talksport only this morning) can bang on all they like about "passion", but when said passion turns into ugly hatred and violence, then eventually, someone has to stick their heads above the parapet to cry "enough's enough". It's great that the Police and the SFA have finally woken up to this, even going so far as to call the Old Firm match a "national embarrassment". It is embarrasing, an not just to Scotland, but by extension to the whole UK. At the end of the day, what the heck is such extreme sectarian hatred all about? Disagreement over a King or Pope who died hundreds of years ago? For Goodness' sake, children - grow up and act like adults!

 

And before anyone suggests I'm anti-Scottish, I'm not. I'm anti-thuggery, wherever it occurs. This week it's Celtic/Rangers, next week, who knows?

 

 

And yes, to the pedants, you are correct - I actually put money on 1-5 last night, not 5-1. That said, I was quite happy at a 1-3 win for my team!