Early Risers.

[Jock67B]

Morning all,

Grumpy Jock with extremely painful back this morning - put it down to coming out in sympathy with the many RMweb members who suffer from the condition. Now I know what it feels like folks, and I greatly admire the stoicism shown by such sufferers!

Musing on last nights Simon Armitage programme following the Cenotaph ceremony - one person he highlighted was a nurse near the front and the basis of his poem was drawn from the many letters she sent home to her mum. The nightmare state of some of the casualties, and the extreme bravery of some, would haunt her for the rest of her life - one young man, knowing he was about to die, asked her if she would kindly give him two kisses, one from her and one from his mum, before he breathed his last. Brings it home that this sick and futile carnage didn't only affect the combatants!

Pete(trisonic), I think that is a great way to look at life, how else would we cope with the obscenities that are now so well documented. We mustn't forget that, completely different context, but 9/11 was graphically shown live around the world as it unfolded whereas people only knew what was happening in WW1 from official releases which were heavily biased. It was thanks to one of my favourite poets, Wilfred Owen, and some of his peers like Siegfried Sassoon, that the truth began to dawn about the desperate carnage. Before that, apologists like Jessie Pope made it seem like a great patriotic adventure (she wrote for the Daily Mail!). For those that don't know it Google the Owen poem 'Anthem for Doomed Youth' or another (thought to be directly aimed at Pope and her like) 'Dulce et Decorum Est' which says it all! I urge you to read them when you get time if you aren't familiar with his work - he could have gone on to become one of our greatest poets had he not been tragically killed by enemy action on 4th November 1918, just seven days before the armistice was signed!

Perhaps one of the saddest things was to see women and children proudly marching past the Cenotaph with their lost partner's/father's medals proudly displayed, proving that we failed to learn from what was supposed to be the 'War to End All Wars!'

To move to lighter subjects, I think Sherry deserves a big 'well done' from us all for getting through such a trial!

Off now to prepare chez Jock as a B&B for the next few days and start preparing dinner. Hope my comments weren't too depressing on this day but I'm determined that they should not be forgotten.

Kind regards,

Jock.

[Coombe Barton]

I first came across Owen's poetry when the first recording of Britten's War Requiem first came out. Good settings.

[iL Dottore]

My Great Aunt lost a much beloved brother in WWI and 50 years later still had his photo on her mantelpiece, so deeply did the loss affect her.

 

I wonder why WWI resonates so deeply in Britain. Loss of life (civilian and military) was far greater in WWII (the Eastern front especially) and as for industrialised warfare, what could be more depersonalised than missile or drone attacks? Perhaps it's because WWI was the first industrialised war that involved civilians and conscripted armed forces? I don't know.

 

What I do know is that after WWI the politicians managed to waste the sacrifice of all those men and women, sowing the seeds for something far nastier.

 

So on Rememberance Sunday we must not only remember the fallen, but also remember the culpability of the jingoists and the politicians, then and now.

[45156]

Afternoon All

 

I did WW1 poetry for my Higher English, and had a very good English teacher, who could read the poems in a way that left many of the class (not only the girls) in tears, and was able to read right through the allegories of the work of Owen and Sasoon (to name but two) and get right to the heart of their work - awesome as it's still with me some 45 years on, and I still understand the poems now, and am still moved by them - many thanks Bill Thomas - hope that your other pupils were as appreciative of what you did.

 

Didn't get to the Cenotaph, but I have done my time in the past, and paraded every November to the local Cenotaph with the BB Company, first as a boy, then as an NCO, and finally as an officer, and standard bearer.  Have done my time taking the Legion colours into church to be reblessed then paraded to the war memorial - usually just as the piper struck up Flowers Of The Forest, which was used in some Scottish services instead of The Last Post, you could guarantee that the rain would start. 

 

As for me, not a lot has happened of late, but I have again managed to catch up - and again no Cape Town contribution - still as Tim is also on the case, I'm just hoping that no news is good news.

 

On a final, I watched what I thought was one of the finest pieces of acting that I ever saw on British TV - we recorded the ITV drama "Cilla" as we were away when it was on, and forgot it was there, until yesterday, when we found it, and watched all three episodes together, and the portrayal of the young Cilla Black by Sheridan Smith was gobsmacking - like Cilla's music or not, this as a superb portrayal.

 

I'll pop in later for another catch up - meantime commiserations where needed, and congratulations where deserved.

 

Regards to All

Stewart

Edited November 9, 2014 by 45156

[NGT6 1315]

What I do know is that after WWI the politicians managed to waste the sacrifice of all those men and women, sowing the seeds for something far nastier.

 

So on Rememberance Sunday we must not only remember the fallen, but also remember the culpability of the jingoists and the politicians, then and now.

 

Flavio, I agree with you there, if I may just add some politicalish thoughts. It's worth noting that in Germany at least, when comparing the attention the two world wars usually receive in the media, WW2 is still clearly in the lead. Of course, I suppose this is for reasons which require no further mention.

 

I was having the impression that only this year, the media devoted far greater attention than usual to WW1, and especially how it provided the foul socio-economic and political basis for what would eventually cause Big Mistake No. 2. One is left wondering how things would have turned out if in 1914, on many sides, cooler heads had prevailed.

[Smiffy2]

In WW1 Britain (the Home Islands) lost about 780,000 military dead (1.6 million wounded) and about 17,000 civilian, of which 14,000 were Merchant Navy.

In WW2 the losses were 383,000 military and 67,000 civilian (including Merchant Navy). So about half the casualties of the Great War.

 

In WW1 the war of attrition meant that the casualties were spread over the whole conflict - as John Terraine put it the army was in contact with the enemy for four years. That wasn't the case in WW2, although Terraine calculated that the losses per day in WW2 when in contact with the enemy were as proportionate to WW1.

 

 

There was also the nature of recruitment and regimental organisation in WW1, with the effects of losses in the Pals Battalions falling in quite sharply focussed geographical areas.

 

There are only 32 'Thankful Villages' (53 parishes) in the UK - villages to which all the men who fought returned. In France there is only one.

 

That, for me, explains why WW1 still stands so starkly in the communal memory.

[The Stationmaster]

The Great War was really the first mass war in which Britain took part and as a result more than any previous war it touched far more of the population than anything which had gone before, and in some respects, odd though it might sound, anything which has happened since.  For the first time ever it took many of the male population away from the life they knew and introduced them to something completely different which was a mixture of boredom, thrills, intense danger, and great hardship.   But at the same time, like all the previous wars in which Britain had been involved, it was still very much theirs and little of what it was really liked reached the ears and eyes of their loved ones back home or anyone else in the bulk of the population because the newspaper presentation simply couldn't catch the scale and immediacy of it let alone all that was involved.

 

Similarly for the first time ever the war spread to those who were not directly involved - not just in terms of losses to U boats at sea and the shelling of coastal towns or bombing by airships etc - but in terms of everyday involvement with the creation of a huge female workforce in factories doing 'men's work'.

 

Then came in the aftermath of the realisation of huge losses plus the sight of those who came back maimed in body & mind who were there as a constant reminder.  Don't forget that in Britain the period after war was for some years one of annual mourning and remembrance on a large scalewhich also no doubt made its impression on the whole population.

 

What we all too often see now, but were endlessly treated to in the 1960s, was the memories of various war poets - many of whom were totally unknown until the late 1920s and whose 'message' was not recognised by many of those who had been there.  The 1960s commercialism and somewhat distorted history of Alan Clark feeding the idea of 'Lions Led By Donkeys'; oddly enough the 'donkeys' being in some cases the very generals whose men had trusted them fully as they came to learn their craft.   Fortunately later authors put right those misimpressions but what we still lack is a true comprehension of the sense of national grief and mourning which followed the Great War and left long lasting feelings, some of  which have passed down to us.

 

Also of course the sheer scale of the casualty lists means that still, today, many British people can identify relatives who served and died or were wounded in that great conflict.  Or some of us knew those who were there and came back and, later as old men, were able to talk to us in our childhood or youth about some of their experiences.

[PhilJ W]

As I said earlier I had to go out this morning. I opened my front door to find a van parked blocking my drive, it was a driver making a delivery further down the street but the most annoying thing was the house he was delivering to had plenty of space for him to park his van.

Edited November 9, 2014 by PhilJ W

[45156]

As I said earlier I had to go out this morning. I opened my front door to find a van parked blocking my drive, it was a driver making a delivery further down the street but the most annoying thing was the house he was delivering to had plenty of space for him to park his van.

Where's the "typical" key when you need it?

 

Just been trying to book a night in the Travelodge in Ludlow where the room rate is never above about 50 quid.  Night that we want has rooms from 81 quid - checked the local what's on and found that there is a big Christmas Fayre on that weekend, so Travelodge have jacked up the room rates by 60% for the weekend of the event - hope they don't fill their rooms, and I've decided on a different weekend. 

Edited November 9, 2014 by 45156

[skipepsi]

Where's the "typical" key when you need it?

Hidden behind the van...

[New Haven Neil]

A'noon.  Went out on the bike as it was nice and sunny, got all the way to the 'far south' and...peed it down.  had lunch while the rain stopped, and when I set off again....you guessed it.

 

So after drying out a bit, I finished Debs BMW so that's one job out of the way, re-arranged to the toys in the garage to start the next one, then had a little play with the layout wondering how much I would have to change to make it cross the Atlantic, eastwards. Not too much, buildings of course, and backscene such as it is, some trackwork but one major problem is a crossing of two single tracks at 'grade' ie on the level, not that common an occurrence in the UK.  Of course that is in the relatively finished scenic section #sigh#

[Tony_S]

Afternoon.

Aditi said while I took Robbie for a walk she would go shopping. We haven't been for a few days and she needed milk and biscuits for work. She hadn't gone when I returned from the walk so I said I would go as she seems to be putting in another 25 hour day of admin for work at the moment. So off I go, fill a trolley and then realise at 3.35 I have left my wallet at home. Quick call home to Aditi of the please bring money to Pitsea now type of call. She hadn't arrived at 3.55 and I was concerned the security chaps wouldn't let her in after 4 when I wondered if the mobile banking app on my phone would be of any use. I managed to register for careless cash and got it to send me a code for the cash machine, get some money, get back in just before 4 to find Aditi waiting for me. Panic over.

Tony

Edited November 9, 2014 by Tony_S

[bluebottle]

Re your last minute shopping problems, Tony - that's the kind of fankle I'm always getting into. I worry sometimes about senile dementia, but anyone who knows me goes out of his or her way to assure me that I've always been that way inclined. So that's all right then.

[trisonic]

I’ve got that: “Whole Life Dementia”. According to my Wife, anyway.

 

Best, Pete.

[travelintrev]

Afternoon all,  

 

When I first saw that post of Dom's this morning I read "Monografie" as Moorgate! 

 

Lunch with Son & D-i-L  -  (classed as an early Xmas lunch!)  Then they announced that  they will be having a baby in June  ( mind you they've been living together for 7 years and getting married in July!)..  But he is going to have to pull his finger out and get some of the DIY jobs he's started finished! 

 

Enjoy your eveing

 

Trev.

[trisonic]

Where's the "typical" key when you need it?

 

Just been trying to book a night in the Travelodge in Ludlow where the room rate is never above about 50 quid.  Night that we want has rooms from 81 quid - checked the local what's on and found that there is a big Christmas Fayre on that weekend, so Travelodge have jacked up the room rates by 60% for the weekend of the event - hope they don't fill their rooms, and I've decided on a different weekend. 

Afraid that is typical around the World, Stewart.

Ludlow is where my Father’s family came from (together with Cirencester). I’ve been to Sisister but never Ludlow. I really ought to see the place.

 

Best, Pete.

[skipepsi]

Afternoon all,  

 

When I first saw that post of Dom's this morning I read "Monografie" as Moorgate! 

 

Lunch with Son & D-i-L  -  (classed as an early Xmas lunch!)  Then they announced that  they will be having a baby in June  ( mind you they've been living together for 7 years and getting married in July!)..  But he is going to have to pull his finger out and get some of the DIY jobs he's started finished! 

 

Enjoy your eveing

 

Trev.

Sounds like he has done some DIY already.....

[Oldddudders]

Sounds like he has done some DIY already.....

Au contraire - DIY avoids that result, I believe!

 

Trisonic Pete - Ludlow is lovely. Deb used to attend an annual Shakespeare production in the open air there. The river is beautiful and the town stands above. Our/my grey mare Varian was foaled nearby in 1981, will need brushing tonight as she's muddy again....

[Coombe Barton]

 

Ludlow is where my Father’s family came from (together with Cirencester). I’ve been to Sisister but never Ludlow. I really ought to see the place.

 

Park by the mill on the river, then walk up into the town. And whatever you do DON'T follow the satnav to get through town - we got led down a 6' 6" wide street in the middle of the town fair!

 

And if you get assaulted by a buildings specialist in the castle talking about 'stress relief arches' then you've met my wife!

 

[ADDED} And whilst in the area, try Clun as well.

 

5002 and 7029

Edited November 9, 2014 by Coombe Barton

[Oldddudders]

And whilst in the area, try Clun as well.

 

5002 and 7029

Although the pub calls itself "The Sun at Clun" my Welsh neighbours insisted it should be pronounced "clean", so in modern parlance it is presumably "The Scene at Clean"!

[Judge Dread]

As I said earlier I had to go out this morning. I opened my front door to find a van parked blocking my drive, it was a driver making a delivery further down the street but the most annoying thing was the house he was delivering to had plenty of space for him to park his van.

When I tried to point out the same to a driver preparing to leave his car across my garage entrance, I was told "It's not your private piece of road." My reply was "Quite right and it's not your's either!".

[Tony_S]

When I tried to point out the same to a driver preparing to leave his car across my garage entrance, I was told "It's not your private piece of road." My reply was "Quite right and it's not your's either!".

My sister in law was told that she didn't own the road and the driver was rather surprised when she said she did.

[PhilJ W]

I live on a corner, there is a small plot of land about 3 metres wide between my property and the corner itself, and there is barely enough room to park a small car between the corner and my drive. Some people insist on parking there rather than park on the oposite side of the road where there is room to park. The plot of land which belongs to the local council is very overgrown and makes the corner 'blind'. On one occasion I was asking a woman driver not to park there as although she was not obstructing my drive the position of her car would make a bit of manouvering neccessary to reverse my car onto the drive, her reply was to give me the finger. As she did so another car came flying round the corner and collided with her car.

[Simon G]

Not been onto ERs for a few days - just seem to be too busy!  Had a good day today.  SWMBO wanted to use up the last of our Tesco Clubcard Days Out coupons, so we drove to Bowness on Windermere and went to the 'World of Beatrix Potter', which was good.  Obviously aimed more at the younger market, but is it well done and we enjoyed it.  Then followed it up with a trip to the Lakes Aquarium at Lakeside.  It turned out to be a Thomas the Tank weekend on the Lakeside & Haverthwaite (where I used to be a volunteer in the late 1970s), with Guard's Van rides at Lakeside behind Princess, an 0-6-0 tank, and a Class 110 DMU covering the main duties.  And guess which idiot forgot to take his camera?  Still we had a great day overall.

[Donw]

Ludlow is indeed a nice place we were there earlier this year in the motorhome. Go over the bridge heading south and turn immediately right up a steep hill on the left is Mortimer Forest on the right Bringewood Chase. About the second or third carpark is High Vinnals some lovely walks and on the high spot a beautiful view for miles around. It is not that far from Bridgnorth for the Severn Valley Railway either.

Don