Early Risers.

[Tony_S]

42 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Perhaps I'll confine myself to observing that the past was better because you were younger. 

And at the time we didn’t know it was the past.

[jjb1970]

I wonder how many who think government policy is to not control immigration have ever had to deal with UK immigration. Having had to deal with it over many years both professionally (transferring naval architects and marine engineers from China and the Republic of Korea) and privately with an overseas family the UK has anything but an open door to immigration.  Of course until recently there was an open door to EU nationals but that was reciprocated with an open door to UK nationals to go to EU countries.

[DaveF]

I always think there are good and bad things about any decade but in practice we have to accept where we are, whether we like it or not.  All I can really say that I am 75 and reasonably healthy and mobile.  Had I been born 50 years earlier than I was I would probably have been dead when I was 3.

 

Today so far is dry and should remain so until teatime.  However it is dull and I know it will rain as I have the usual damp weather aches, paracetamol may be used very soon.

 

Soon someone should come to do the cleaning as Amanda is on holiday.  I have done my share of it.  

 

What happens later depends on the aches, the few bits of silver need cleaning as does a copper bed warming pan (purely ornamental!).  I doubt I'll do much as I found my meeting yesterday very tiring - a lot of it is because I am not good at sitting down quietly for too long, I prefer to be moving about every 20 minutes or so to stretch and loosen up.

 

David

Edited August 19 by DaveF

[Gwiwer]

41 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

the past was better because you were younger. 

Perhaps more that we were less aware of things which actually affected our daily lives.  

 

The first "political conversation" I remember having was over the school lunch table and the summary of that was (me) "President Kennedy got shot" - (another) "So what - he's American".  The deeper implications never reached me.  

 

6 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

Affordable housing - like Rachmann slums??

I did my bit there somewhat later in life.  Post-student years in London saw myself and a good many others unable to afford housing of any sensible kind.  We joined forces and campaigned for the local council to release "unfit" housing to us on a short-life licence.  These were the tail-end of slum-clearance and other long-boarded properties the council had little apparent intention of doing anything with despite the acute housing crisis.   We were successful.  Limitations were that we only ever got a licence to occupy typically for six months at a time and we were not permitted to house anyone who fell under the "statutory rehousing" requirements, principally families and disabled.  

 

At its peak we had over 300 "units" in management and an active and partially self-funded major repair project run by qualified builders among our number.  We even attracted the support and active participation of one Victor (now Lord) Adebowale - a champion then and now of the needs of disadvantaged communities especially in terms of housing.  Ultimately all properties we still managed passed to a local housing association with the occupants granted secure tenancies.  Albeit rents went up from typically £7.50 a week when we only had to fund our own co-operative structure to HA levels with full repairs undertaken at their cost not ours.

 

I rate that as a success.

 

59 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

The Windrush

When father passed and we sorted through his things we found, stashed away in the loft, one of his National Service kit-bags.  Clearly stencilled with his name, number and the name "WINDRUSH" unambiguously upon it.  By the time this came to our notice it was too late for him to offer any comment so we shall never know the truth or the story behind it.  The Windrush made many voyages not all of which were connected with the shipment of people from Commonwealth nations into the UK.  What we know of his National Service record is largely across North Africa as an RAF medical orderly which doesn't sit readily with serving aboard the Windrush.  Hmmm.  

 

 

 

[southern42]

' morning all from red dragon land.

Drizzly. 'Nuf said.

 

On 15/08/2024 at 20:03, southern42 said:

Not to worry...Loads of new TOTF🎶 videos watched this afternoon as I have subscribed to a new year's worth of flute tuition. Having moved onto a new section, I think I will have my work cut out for me over the coming months. Don't get excited, though, it is still only early learning stuff and all exercises of one kind or another!  The challenge is on..... 🤣

 

 

Rather! The speed has gone up, for one...and you may remember <<I DON'T DO FAST>>! Now, we are starting to do ridiculously fast and no doubt faster still, at some point. <<Let's just say I'm trying to sing it first! 🤣 Fun n games, eh?>>

 

Yesterday, I ventured into the garden as, through the window, I could see the hibiscus flowering its best ever. The shrub is still quite small but it seems to be doing well. It is a good source of grub for some, too, by the looks of it. 🐝 and others, mostly of the destructive variety... ;)

 

The pine cone pundits were promising a lovely summery weekend...well, maybe a few minutes here and there if you discount the strong breeze! Mainly overcast with the sun poking its nose out occasionally, or straining itself through the hazy cloud. So, putting on my fleece jacket, I ventured out for my morning mugadecafs and lunch and that was it! Nice, though.

 

Time to get some jobbies done. Catch up, later.

Take care. Be good. Make the most of it.

Polly

 

[PhilJ W]

4 hours ago, rockershovel said:

I like cucumber sandwiches. With Earl Grey tea on a sunny afternoon. 

Don't knock the 1950s. The period roughly 1956-1968 was a sort of aftermath of the incomplete revolution of 1945-9; full employment, affordable and social housing, immigration controls were government policy. Rationing was over and we were past the 1949 Devaluation. Education opportunities were greater than ever. Motoring was becoming widely accessible and the killer diseases of the recent past - TB, diphtheria, polio - being conquered. 

It was a far better world than the one we live in now.

There was down sides, most homes were heated by open coal fires and smoking was common which led to bronchial illnesses being prevalent. I remember the London smogs that even stretched out as far as Hornchurch were I lived. And then there was the Cold War and the constant threat of nuclear annihilation.

[Gwiwer]

14 minutes ago, Tony_S said:

at the time we didn’t know it was the past.

over boiled cabbage

That was all too present for many years.  Both in the school canteen and at home.  Mother was no cook.  She had learned from her own mother who was also no cook.  Nothing was "done" until it was either cremated (bacon, toast, fried eggs etc) or mushy (cabbage, carrots, potatoes etc) and everything was rather tasteless.  Unless you count the taste of the warm water which ended up on the plates for the veg to swim in because if you attempted to drain or strain them they were so mushy they would go down the sink with the cooking water.

 

I'm glad those years have passed into the past.  At least I taught myself to cook vegetables "al dente"  

[PhilJ W]

20 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

When father passed and we sorted through his things we found, stashed away in the loft, one of his National Service kit-bags.  Clearly stencilled with his name, number and the name "WINDRUSH" unambiguously upon it.  By the time this came to our notice it was too late for him to offer any comment so we shall never know the truth or the story behind it.  The Windrush made many voyages not all of which were connected with the shipment of people from Commonwealth nations into the UK.  What we know of his National Service record is largely across North Africa as an RAF medical orderly which doesn't sit readily with serving aboard the Windrush.  Hmmm.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMT_Empire_Windrush

This might explain the name Windrush on the kit bag.

As a troopship, Empire Windrush made 13 round trips between Britain and the Far East.[22] Her route was between Southampton and Hong Kong, via Gibraltar; Suez; Aden; Colombo; and Singapore. Her route was extended to Kure in Japan during the Korean War.[citation needed] She also made ten round trips to the Mediterranean; four to India; and one to the West Indies.[22]

Edited August 19 by PhilJ W

[jjb1970]

The Empire Windrush engines weren't very powerful, especially for a passenger ship. Thanks to PhilJW for the link as I had never taken any interest in the ship itself.

[Tony_S]

Not quite the Windrush but my (now )wife and her Mum and sister arrived at the same Tilbury terminal in 1959.  Her Dad had arrived, also by ship, a couple of years earlier and had been working in Sunderland while studying for some post qualification medical exams at Edinburgh. He had just moved to a job in Knaresborough that had family accommodation . They came for a visit and stayed. They became British citizens when the government changed immigration status for Commonwealth citizens and also for British overseas passport holders like East African Asians. 
One good thing about modern UK immigration is that the computer scan is quick. When it was a person, every single time we entered the country my wife always got extra questions just because her place of birth was marked as “India”, questions I was never asked., like something about where we lived or how long was our journey expected to take. We usually got waved on as Aditi’s usual answer was it depends whether or not we stop at McDonalds . 

[jjb1970]

The worst experience I had at UK immigration was being asked if I had evidence our kids were my offspring. When they were younger they looked very Chinese (now they're teenagers they look more mixed and less Chinese for some reason) and Mrs JJB was in the foreigners lane. I was quite taken aback, I pointed to their passports and their name and was told that didn't mean anything. A supervisor waved us through after I made some pointed comment.

[Tony_S]

32 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

The first "political conversation" I remember having

When I was born the political leaders of the UK, USA and USSR were Churchill, Truman and Stalin. At some stage later I know I was somehow aware the PM was Harold MacMillan. When I was about 5 I can remember adults discussing something I misheard as Budgie Day affecting the cost of things. 

[PhilJ W]

 

Morning all from Estuary-Land. A pretty good night last night only I rolled over once and woke up Arthur Itis. But he soon went back to sleep and so did I. A few things to do today, I'm looking into hiring a coach to take a group to the Ally Pally for the exhibition in March next year. The coach will cost £720 and to make it viable I will have to fill at least 36 seats (£20 per seat) if I can fill the 53 seat coach that will be £14 per head. That will be for the coach only, one of the local MRC's ran a similar trip to Warley and booked tickets for all. Then a few dropped out and they were left with unused tickets and made a loss.

[Tony_S]

16 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

The worst experience I had at UK immigration was being asked if I had evidence our kids were my offspring. When they were younger they looked very Chinese (now they're teenagers they look more mixed and less Chinese for some reason) and Mrs JJB was in the foreigners lane. I was quite taken aback, I pointed to their passports and their name and was told that didn't mean anything. A supervisor waved us through after I made some pointed comment.

TWA. Travelling While Asian. Some of Matthew’s friends at university called it Green Passport Syndrome too. 

[Gwiwer]

12 minutes ago, Tony_S said:

something I misheard as Budgie Day affecting the cost of things. 

I remember my maternal grandfather taking me into the always-curtained parlour, a room seldom entered without good reason, to watch something called "Television".  Because on that, and in the days when it was only BBC (not even BBC1) and transmission hours were more or less an hour at lunchtime and a few in the evening, the afternoon would be occupied with a special broadcast of "The Budget".  Studio commentary, of course, as the concept of televising Parliament itself was many years away.  

 

Grandad explained that this was important because prices would change in an era when prices seldom changed very much at all.  

 

In other news just in ..... Dr. SWMBO has accepted an invitation to attend St. James's Palace in recognition of her work.  She has been told to attend by her most senior director and will be presented to Their Majesties for her remarkable, sensitive but lesser-known, work with Samoan peoples and plants a couple of years ago.  I don't get to go.  

[Tony_S]

One of our friends was born in Malta. Her father was in the Royal Navy and her parents  lived  in married quarters. For years she had a British passport. But when she went to renew it (about 2000 I  think) she was told she wasn’t eligible and should apply for a Maltese passport. It was all sorted out and was due to some error in registering her birth. Though I now have read that people pay a lot of money for a Maltese passport! 

[Tony_S]

9 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

and in the days when it was only BBC

When ITV came to our bit of Somerset it was TWW and I recall at the weekends was very Welsh. Some man called Ivor Emmanuel was on frequently. 

[iL Dottore]

1 hour ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

Affordable housing - like Rachmann slums??

properly functioning NHS - that did not then have cures for cancers or even means to provide remission in many cases or where arthritis meant pain and not a replacement knee or hip or where a heart attack almost always meant death and not a bypass or stent.   I could go on.

 

Your rose coloured specs sure are a deep shade.

Not at all.
 

The NHS may not have had all the benefits of modern medicine and pharmaceuticals back then, but neither did anyone else, what the NHS did back then was to provide accessible medical care to the best standards of the time

 

As for the Rachmann slums, you also had - on the other hand - concerted council house building programmes. 
 

You accuse me of wearing rose-tinted spectacles, but you are equally guilty of cherry picking “bad examples”  Life back then, as the historian David Kynaston has pointed out, was as complicated and nuanced as life today (but without the technology).

 

There does seem to be the tendency amongst some to steadfastly refuse to believe, let alone concede, that some things were better back then.

[New Haven Neil]

Someone mentioned the Middle-East disturbances at the end of the 50's - as a result of the actions of the Ba'ath Party I was born in the UK, otherwise I would have been born in Iraq, as dad worked there in oil exploration at the time.  Would have been awkward later, somewhat of an understatement.

 

Miserably wet here now and quite draughty, chances of more race practice this afternoon now zero.

 

Looks like an afternoon in the garage pottering on with that bike-to-be that currently resides in several large boxes.

[iL Dottore]

One of the problems I have seen in the previous posts, which is almost inevitable, is the viewing of the past through the prism of today. By today’s standards, there were plenty of things which are now considered as horrible, ghastly, unpleasant, or just downright wrong. Equally, although in much, much smaller measure, there were things that were objectively better.

 

But reviewing those decades through today’s eyes does lead people to jump to the wrong conclusions. We have to look at those decades through the eyes of the people as they were living through it. 

 

Thus for most Britons, after living through the traumas, devastation and sacrifices of the Second World War, the late 40s and the 50s were, if not “good times” (a hackneyed phrase if there ever was one) certainly much, much better than what went before. And in the early 60s, you had the explosion of youth, culture and the “white heat of the technological revolution” which imbued that part of the decade with a vibrancy not seen since.

 

Edited August 19 by iL Dottore
Grammar

[Andy Hayter]

22 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

 

You accuse me of wearing rose-tinted spectacles, but you are equally guilty of cherry picking “bad examples”  Life back then, as the historian David Kynaston has pointed out, was as complicated and nuanced as life today (but without the technology).

 

 

Although I in no way suffered living in a slum, perhaps I was a lot closer to that end of the spectrum than you - unemployed father, who then spent 3 years retraining as a teacher.  My university thought I had made a mistake and not read the question correctly when I put my father's occupation down as student.   So money was tight in the 60s and while there were certainly good times to be had, it was for me by no means some imagined pseudo-Eutopia that some posters seem to imply.

[Tony_S]

9 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

And in the early 60s, you had the explosion of youth, culture and the “white heat of the technological revolution” which imbued that part of the decade with a vibrancy not seen since.

I went to a secondary school in the 1960s. It was a grammar school created  to provide us with an education appropriate for “the white heat of technology”, lots of science and technology subjects. However culturally it was not at all liberal, very Victorian values and not at all cognisant of changes in society. 

[Tony_S]

At the early and later stages of my life I had/have  a train set so that is nice. 

[Phil Parker]

28 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

There does seem to be the tendency amongst some to steadfastly refuse to believe, let alone concede, that some things were better back then.

 

Sorry, but how is being told "You have cancer, you are going to die", better than, "You have cancer, here's your treatment plan."? The NHS could run much more easily with the money on offer if they could refuse to treat anything they couldn't in the 1960s, but I'm not sure most people would consider this an improvement.

 

Also, the average life expectancy is now 81, when in your "good old days" it was 71. Not much of an upgrade there either.

 

To move off health, my 19 year old Peugeot was pretty much rust-free when I sold it ten years ago. My 19-year-old VW Beetle, bought years before, needed serious welding to go through its first MOT with me. Cars in the 60s looked old, with rust and bumpers falling off, very quickly. Now, you hardly see a rusty one.

 

 

[TheQ]

One of my sister's had difficulty getting a passport as she was born in Cyprus, the fact it was BRITISH Military Hospital Dhekeila didn't seem to make a difference.

The other sister was born in Northern Ireland, so is entitled to an Irish as well as British passport, a fact her son has taken advantage of and has got an Irish passport as well as British passport.

 

I can remember just one event in Cyprus, but we left in 61  to go to NI, we left there in 63 and I can remember a lot of NI.

All my earliest cars were made in the 60s, and by the time I bought them in the 70s, they were rust buckets.

 

Afternoon Awl,

Been putting up anti rat netting using a stapler, found the new pack of staples did not fit, SWMBO dug out her old stapler seemingly identical, the new staples did fit... The difference is about 1/2 a mm...

 

The muddling shed is now 3/4 ringed by anti rat mesh, all that kneeling down, getting up etc is knackering.

 

I've now got 1Kg of grey stuff in the post box, and some electrickery connectors waiting on a unit of unmentionables .

 

Time to head in the direction on a unit of unmentionables.