Early Risers.

[Erichill16]

I read recently that the DH Mosquito was trialed with a turrett. The preserved prototype shows evidence of where it fitted. 

[pH]

7 minutes ago, Ozexpatriate said:

You may find this paper, "On the planning of British aircraft production for the Second World War and reference to James Connolly" interesting.

I thought wtaf does James Connolly have to do with WW2 British aircraft??? Oh - I see - different James Connolly!

[monkeysarefun]

53 minutes ago, polybear said:

Ah yes....but what about by UK standards?

 

Depends if you get paid in  UK standards or Australian standards!

[Ozexpatriate]

49 minutes ago, Erichill16 said:

the DH Mosquito was trialed with a turret

A turret was in the spec.

 

The paper linked above quotes the following, regarding early Mosquitoes:

Quote

Following their favourable report, an order was placed for only 50 airframes, as the Air Staff were not persuaded of its value, in accordance with its view that bombers must carry full defensive armament*

* that is, a turret.

 

Also (from Wikipedia)

Quote

The DH.98 was too radical for the ministry, which wanted a heavily armed, multirole aircraft, combining medium bomber, reconnaissance, and general-purpose roles, that was also capable of carrying torpedoes. ... To appease the ministry, de Havilland built mock-ups with a gun turret just aft of the cockpit, but apart from this compromise, de Havilland made no changes.

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Ozexpatriate

[iL Dottore]

This may be more to The Bear’s taste:

 

[Ozexpatriate]

3 minutes ago, pH said:

I thought wtaf does James Connolly have to do with WW2 British aircraft?

It is a very weird title. But I'm not familiar with the suggested nomenclature of paper titles in the Journal of Aeronautical History.

[monkeysarefun]

2 hours ago, Coombe Barton said:

... Now I would not like to think that the Daily Mail group is disingenuous, but ...

The Daily Mail online arrived here a few years ago, worst OS import since the Cane Toad.

 

I refuse to click on anything to do with it since it seems to be run by a bunch of sickf@*ks going by the number of animal snuff movies and pics it loves to post. ("Chinese Dog MArket  where puppies are killed and cooked in front of you - warning graphic images"  "heartbreaking : mother gazelle watches helplessly as  her newborn baby is  ripped apart by lions - warning graphic images"   etc etc.)  Whos that catering to ?( I mean the pictures , not the BBQ'd puppies...) 

Edited March 27, 2023 by monkeysarefun

[Tony_S]

2 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

The only way they can be opened is on the order of a judge and only then if there is a very good reason. 

So not secret for 7 years…

 

[Ozexpatriate]

4 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

In July 1940 the RAF had more Hurricanes (344) than Spitfires (226) ...

Consider that 2,201 Fairey Battles were built between 1937 and 1940.

 

That's where you can really ask your question:

4 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

What was Whitehall thinking of....)

The reality was that the Air Ministry could not keep up with the rate of change in mid-1930s aircraft design evolution, coupled with the boutique/bespoke mindset of peacetime British aircraft manufacturing conflated with the timeframe of Government orders for new aircraft.

 

Its quite amazing that the RAF had any aircraft capable of standing up to the Luftwaffe in 1940 at all. 

 

The Gladiator (biplane) was the frontline RAF fighter in 1937. The Defiant was introduced in December* 1939.

 

* After hostilities commenced.

 

You've said you enjoy counterfactuals. Imagine that the Munich Agreement does not buy extra time to equip the RAF and the Battle of Britain begins in the spring of 1939. The parlous state of the RAF at that time suggests a different outcome is possible.

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Ozexpatriate
Added counterfactual

[monkeysarefun]

13 minutes ago, Ozexpatriate said:

The paper linked above quotes the following, regarding early Mosquitoes:

Quote

 

 

Todays entrant in "Celebrities who can fly Mosquitoes!" is Aussie actor Charles 'Bud" Tingwell, probably best known there as the farmer in series one of Catweazle, who flew Mosquitoes and Spitfires doing photo reconnaissance in the Italian campaign.

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by monkeysarefun

[Tony_S]

1 hour ago, polybear said:

 

No way is This Bear of a nervous disposition clickin' on that little white triangle....

In the UK we have “Build A Bear Workshop”. The Japanese have “Boil A Bear”

[Erichill16]

59 minutes ago, Ozexpatriate said:

A turret was in the spec.

 

The paper linked above quotes the following, regarding early Mosquitoes:

* that is, a turret.

 

Also (from Wikipedia)

 

Ah yes, remember  now that the turret was for the bomber version rather than the night fighter/interdictor.

The Northrop P61 Black Widow was a night fighter which did have a turret, though not a manned one!

[Dave Hunt]

1 hour ago, PupCam said:

I would also have to add the DH 88 Comet (Racer), DH Mosquito and the Hawker Hunter (easy now @Dave Hunt) to the list of truly beautiful aeroplanes.

 

Those are my favourite aircraft with the DH88 top of the list. I'm one of the lucky ones who as a teenager thought, "Wow, I'd love to fly a Hunter," and did.

 

Dave

[Ozexpatriate]

2 minutes ago, Erichill16 said:

The Northrop P61 Black Widow was a night fighter which did have a turret, though not a manned one!

In its evolved role as a night fighter, the Boulton-Paul Defiant of course had a turret too, before being replaced by the Mosquito.

[figworthy]

12 hours ago, TheQ said:

Oats, something the English feed horses. But the Scots eat for breakfast.

 

 

Horse, a metal bar, or rope string normally across the back of the boat, to which the main sheet is attached, via a block.

 

 

Err ...

 

Adrian

[polybear]

1 hour ago, monkeysarefun said:

The Daily Mail online arrived here a few years ago, worst OS import since the Cane Toad.

 

I refuse to click on anything to do with it since it seems to be run by a bunch of sickf@*ks going by the number of animal snuff movies and pics it loves to post. ("Chinese Dog MArket  where puppies are killed and cooked in front of you - warning graphic images"  "heartbreaking : mother gazelle watches helplessly as  her newborn baby is  ripped apart by lions - warning graphic images"   etc etc.)  Whos that catering to ?( I mean the pictures , not the BBQ'd puppies...) 

 

Now if the DM were to post videos  along the lines of "Serious Drug Dealer gets tied to the track just in time for the Mail Train" then it'd be much more entertaining....😁

 

 

[Hroth]

1 hour ago, Dave Hunt said:

 

Those are my favourite aircraft with the DH88 top of the list. I'm one of the lucky ones who as a teenager thought, "Wow, I'd love to fly a Hunter," and did.

 

Dave

 

I'd also add the DH. 91 Albatross Transatlantic airliner/mailplane of 1937, 4 engines and a similar construction technique to the Mosquito. A lovely looking aeroplane.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Albatross

 

[Erichill16]

18 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

Now if the DM were to post videos  along the lines of "Serious Drug Dealer gets tied to the track just in time for the Mail Train" then it'd be much more entertaining....😁

 

 

Oi, Bear, I thought you were my mate!

[jjb1970]

The Mosquito pointed to the future, relying on high performance to operate with a degree of safety from enemy fighters and precision delivery rather than weight of bombs.

 

In 1940 select German bomber units made similar use of the Ju88 and much maligned Bf110 (dreadful day fighter but excellent fast light bomber and night fighter) and demonstrated that a handful of bombs delivered with precision were more damaging to the RAF and defined targets than weight of bombs of which few hit anything of military value.

[Dave Hunt]

Don't forget the Beaufighter, which was an excellent night fighter and good in the anti-shipping role.

 

Dave 

[PhilJ W]

4 hours ago, monkeysarefun said:

That's a worry..

 

 

See below.

5 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

The ballot is secret even after counting. Once the winner is declared the ballot papers are collected together (and counted) sealed in a special bag, stored for seven years and then destroyed. The only way they can be opened is on the order of a judge and only then if there is a very good reason. 

Those seven years are spent in very secure storage, the sort that even the bank of England would be proud.

[PhilJ W]

Evening all from Estuary-Land. The Hurricane was certainly easier to repair than the Spitfire during the B-o-B because of its construction. A lot of its fuselage construction features were carried over from the mid thirties Hawker biplanes (Hart, Audax etc.) and were therefore familiar to the RAF fitters. This meant that battle damaged aircraft could be put back in the air quickly. 

[PhilJ W]

Goodnight all.

[BSW01]

Good evening everyone 

 

A day of doing not a lot, I did complete 2 shopping trips today, but we didn’t go Waitrose after dinner, as Sheila said she was too tired. So instead I went to Costco, as we needed a few things from there that we buy in bulk and work out soooo much cheaper than buying them individually locally and we do have the space to store them. Meanwhile, in between the 2 shopping trips I managed to get another brace of ‘Hornby’ programs watched. 

 

This evening after tea, I set up a fruit tea loaf, which will be left soaking overnight and baked tomorrow afternoon. 

[BSW01]

Goodnight all