Early Risers.

[Ozexpatriate]

12 hours ago, monkeysarefun said:

Under the first past the post system the incumbent blue team guy  would remain in power despite over two thirds  of the voters NOT voting for him

And almost 75% of voters did not vote for the winner - which is exactly the issue with preferential votes.

 

Good thing? Bad thing? Depends. Semi-randomized? Yes. It turns the ballot box into a bingo barrel - in my opinion.

 

A big contributor is having many substantive parties - inevitably requiring unstable coalitions to form a government.  Of course two-party systems are not immune to semi-independents being a de-facto power broker when majorities are slim.

 

Edited March 26, 2023 by Ozexpatriate

[iL Dottore]

16 minutes ago, polybear said:

But doesn't iD smoke Cigars? 😁

Yes, but with cigars you don’t inhale (or shouldn’t).

 

The other thing is that tobacco, being a natural product, will vary from crop to crop. This is not a problem for cigars which are made from untreated tobacco, but it is very much a problem for cigarette manufacturers who want to ensure that their customers always enjoy the same “great taste“ (sic) each time they light up. And the way the cigarette manufacturers achieve this is by chemically processing the cigarette tobacco; add to the mix the cigarette paper and the filter and you have a nice little factory producing  carcinogens, which you inhale.

 

I don’t smoke cigarettes….

[Coombe Barton]

... Grand slam to Cambridge this weekend. Hope that the Oxford stroke is OK. ...

https://johncolby.wordpress.com/2023/03/26/drifting-up-or-more-than-drifting/

[Ozexpatriate]

10 hours ago, Barry O said:

wonders of modern diabetes jabs

And why diabetics can't get them whereas Hollywood wannabes somehow manage to siphon off the inventory.

[Ozexpatriate]

26 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

like the now defunct Swissair, also had a European first class service

Is there correlation there?

[Ozexpatriate]

20 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

with cigars you don’t inhale (or shouldn’t) ...

Many years ago I worked with a smoker who had a multiple bypass operation. He had switched to pipe smoking, without inhaling - for the reasons you outline.

[Tony_S]

45 minutes ago, polybear said:

they don't seem to mind spending presumably quite a lot upgrading to App Machines.

The “app machine” is just a notice/sign telling you which app to load and pay with. 

[Tony_S]

29 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

Yes, but with cigars you don’t inhale (or shouldn’t).

Does that mean that cigars are just devices to irritate other people? I always thought that was the case. My Grandfather always lit up a pipe or cigar when we (well Dad drove, we coughed) had to drive him anywhere. 

Edited March 26, 2023 by Tony_S

[Ozexpatriate]

2 minutes ago, Tony_S said:

My Grandfather always lit up a pipe or cigar when we (well Dad drove, we coughed) had to drive him anywhere. 

My paternal grandparents were heavy smokers and died relatively young by today's standards. My Dad never smoked and has outlived their lifespan considerably. An uncle was a heavy cigar smoker. He died suddenly and unexpectedly many years ago.

[The Johnster]

3 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

I am back in Singapore, it was splendid to go back to London for a week but I have to say I'm glad to be back here. I have to say that if airlines were to be judged by their livery then I would vote for Vietnam Airlines as one of the best. 

 

I struggled not to laugh last night when they served dinner on the flight from London as a couple in the row behind me were talking across the aisle (business class on their 787 fleet is 1+2+1 pods in herringbone configuration) whinging that everything on the menu had rice or noodles. Putting aside the fact that it was a factually incorrect statement (there was the usual chicken with potatoes) I felt like suggesting they may be going to the wrong part of the world if they don't like rice or noodles.....

 

One nice aspect of Vietnam Airlines is they offer a genuine business class product on their short haul services. Ho Chi Minh City to Singapore is two hours but the business section is huge 2+2 seats with heaps of legroom and full meal and drinks service served in ceramic dishes with table linen etc. It reminded me of flying in Europe 30 years ago when European airlines still prided themselves on offering high standards of service on short haul flights. For such a short flight the extra cost probably isn't worth it but it is very nice when part of a long haul business class ticket. My experience of business class on intra-european flights is the seats are economy class with the centre seat unoccupied, a nicer headrest cover and not much in-flight service.

 

Agree about the livery, that's rather classy jjb.  My all time favourite, though, was the 60's BOAC wide band blue stripe livery with the blue tail and gold speedbird, which got a coat of arms to further class it up when Cunard stuck their oar in.  Good on a 707, magnificent on a VC10.  Kneel in awe, benighted savages, big silver bird him wing no flap him fly, this is the BRITISH dammit Carruthers Overseas (because there's only Britain and Overseas, storms in channel, continent isolated) Airways Corporation, so there yaboo sucks ner ner nerner ner!  An Irish chum of mine once talked about resenting the effortless superiority effected by the English, and this is as powerful example of what he meant as any! 

[New Haven Neil]

Evening all.

 

Still koffin like iD's ceegar was here. Bleah.

 

Just about all the washing apres holiday done, and unpacking all the things we had forgotten we had bough whilst away.  I think a day of rest tomorrow is called for in preparation for dealing with Mrs NHN's potential rant when she comes in from work.  It may not yet all be decided in detail, we'll see.

 

She'd love to work for the railway side not vehicle side of Fleet Services, she was sort of shared where she was, but Railways don't have the money to 'bag' her, they want to but hands are currently tied with the dire financial position.

 

Had a couple of hours in the garage this afternoon while it was nice n sunny, if a bit cold. trying to remember where I'm up to with work on the railway. Shh.

[monkeysarefun]

5 hours ago, Ozexpatriate said:

And almost 75% of voters did not vote for the winner - which is exactly the issue with preferential votes.

 

Good thing? Bad thing? Depends. Semi-randomized? Yes. It turns the ballot box into a bingo barrel - in my opinion.

 

A big contributor is having many substantive parties - inevitably requiring unstable coalitions to form a government. 

 

 

Because it means your vote doesnt get just one chance! . You go into the ballot box and think "Hmmmm I like the green guy most so I'll put him first. But if he doesnt get  in then the grey guy is almost as good except for a couple of issues so he'll go number 2.  Now I'll pick one of the major parties, so I prefer the red guy so he's number 3"  From a certain point you then go backwards "Who do I really HATE to get in? The racist purple idiots, they get a number 6. The loony lot get a 5 and the other major party gets a 4!" 

 

So when counting begins your first choice doesn't get up but your vote is still in play and useful, it goes to your second choice. If  they fall short then your vote is picked up, dusted off and goes to your 3rd choice. And so on until someone gets over 50 percent.  So to say that 75% didnt vote for the winner isn't entirely correct, its just that the winner wasn't their first choice, but maybe  their 2nd, 3rd 4th..

 

 I mean if you go to buy an ice-cream and think "I want  chocolate" but when you go there the guy tells you theres no chocolate. He doesnt then say "So no ice-cream  for you!" He asks what your next choice is. Voting here is like that. YOu wanted the green guy but if you cant have him the purple or the red guy is next best thing.

 

Its an immensely powerful way to give the major parties a message. Many people who are annoyed at their prefered major party will put an independent first then their preferred major second. Result is that the major gets in due to your first preference flowing to them but they get a reduced primary vote which scares the &$#*&@ out of them. Or if there is a strong independent then the preferences from one of the majors will flow TO them like what happened in my seat.  Most people who weren't on the blue guys side DID want the independent to win due to her policies and also because  the other major party put up an 18 year old guy with no experience!  So we voted independent number  one, then directed our preferences accordingly, ensuring the blue guy was near the bottom. Had we NOT had preferential voting then the blue guy would have got in with a true minority of votes.

 

THeres no greater example of its power than at the last federal election. Disenchantment with the Liberal party  over their climate policies was so high that an alliance of "Teal" candidates (Green-leaning Blues) ran in many blue-ribbon Melbourne and Sydney seats. Thanks to Labor and Greens preferences many got in, winning seats that had been held by conservatives on huge margins from time immemorial up until then,    but the disaffected liberal voters, added to the labor voters preferences was enough to tip them out.  And as a bonus this has resulted in a major climate-change policy rethink by the defeated one-time climate denial  loser party.

 

Think of the safest seats in the UK or the US equivalent, and then think of the chances of them EVER being held by anyone else while ever first  past the post is in place. 

 

That happenned here and CAN happen, we now have a Federal parliament that is not just a 2-party swindle but is  engaged and takes things seriously rather than a bunch just going through the motions  and taking the p!ss cos they know they will never get voted out and thats the reason why preferential voting will NEVER be implemented in most "Democracies" because those in charge (in whatever party) are scared it'll wreck their cushy lives. . No wonder many people  elsewhere are disconnected from politics.

 

I think preferential voting is the reason why we are not against compulsorary voting here , its because even if we live in a safe-seat held by the guys we hate, if we get out and vote it can actually make a difference. I reckon if we had a first past the post system then attitudes would be very different. I imagine that if you had  to trudge to the polling booth to vote for someone you know had no chance of winning you would probably just not bother, hence maybe the low voter turnout in countries like the UK  and the US.Iif nothing else we can at least have fun numbering the ones we hate first, thats surprisingly satisfying! That and the sausage sandwich. 

 

By the way, you DONT need to number every box. YOu can just put a 1 beside your preferred option and then your preferences are directed using the candidates nominated  preference flow. Or you can number more than 1 but less than all of them and your vote is exhuasted after your last number is exhausted, if you definitely dont want your vote to go to people you hate. OR you CAN number every box if you want to micro-manage your vote, though it takes dedication, for instance there were 298 boxes to tick in the NSW upper house ticket!

 

 

Now just imagine if a hypothetical racist right wing criminal wanna be dictator who has managed to con a significant minority of the grassroots that he is on their side and doing it for them rather than to further his criminal grifting endeavours somehow makes  it to the  2024 Republican  primaries and faces 4 or 5 contenders, what will happen? He will win because the non-wanna-be-dictator  vote will be split between the others - because first past the post is non-representative, ie most voters did NOT want him but their vote was wasted.    On the other hand, under a  preferential system  the weight of the non-wanna-be-dictator  votes would overcome the 45% or whatever it is that want him. Sure, the winner might have only say 15% of primary (First choice) but he was still other voters 2nd, 3rd or 4th choice, ie they still wanted them MORE than the wanna-be-dictator.

 

 PS    Preferential voting  can be overcome using ruthless gerrymandering - see 1970's Queensland!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 26, 2023 by monkeysarefun

[PhilJ W]

Evening all from Estuary-Land. Lancashire hot pot was this evenings dinner and very nice it was too. It was a lot drier this afternoon than recently so Arthur Itis has stayed away. I watched the wildlife program earlier, rather a lot of mother nature red in tooth and claw. On the subject of smoking, I have never smoked and never wanted too. Thanks to that my lungs etc. are in pretty good nick, I wish the rest of me was.

[polybear]

Bear here.....

A good progress day today - all of the Big Scary Wall** now has lining paper attached; the only upstairs bits to do are the wall that faces you as you go upstairs (the stairs turn to the left right at the top) and a bit around a doorframe.  So tomorrow (assuming The Paw isn't having it's revenge) it'll be those bits followed by starting on the walls in the hallway.

 

(**The longest drop is 4.5m which was "interesting" to do; the worst was the one to the left of it though - maybe 4.3m but the paper was 1000mm wide and a b1tch to do at that length - I bought this width in order to minimise the number of joints and the risk of them still showing when painted; however, now that I'll be going over the lining paper with Anaglypta Textured Wallpaper it's all a bit academic really.  The Anaglypta is only 530mm wide - more drops but a lot easier to handle.  Hopefully).

[DaveF]

Thinking about smoking I never did for two reasons.

 

First Mum and Dad were heavy smokers until I was about 5 years old when Dad had very bad bronchitis and breathing problems which got worse and worse and (as I was told some years later) his GP told him to give up or go downhill fast.  When I was old enough to even think about smoking they told me the full details of what happened.  They both simply stopped.

 

Second after I did my A levels I took a gap year and worked in a laboratory looking at the effects of tobacco smoke constituents on animal and human tissues.  Seeing cancer cells develop put me off smoking for life.

 

David

Edited March 26, 2023 by DaveF

[Ozexpatriate]

1 hour ago, monkeysarefun said:

Preferential voting  can be overcome using ruthless gerrymandering - see 1970's Queensland!

1970s Queensland has nothing on what is being done today.

 

It's very data-driven. Software is used to 'crack or pack' districts to determine the outcome in many places.

• "cracking" (diluting the voting power of the opposing party's supporters across many districts) or
• "packing" (concentrating the opposing party's voting power in one district to reduce their voting power in other districts)

The word was invented in the US. Named for a signatory of the Declaration of Independence, Governor of Massachusetts and Vice President of the US - Elbridge Gerry.

[PupCam]

42 minutes ago, polybear said:

...... (the stairs turn to the left right at the top

 

Come on!  Make you mind up is it left or right at the top?   😜

 

[monkeysarefun]

13 hours ago, PupCam said:

 

 

The ludicrous prospect of potentially having to use 30+ different apps to park as you move around the country is just plain stupid and IMVHO if* "Parking by App" is the route that's going to be inflicted on us all then there should at least be legislation introduced to ensure a standard method of payments and transactions are employed between operators and that any App MUST be able to be used to pay for any parking facility.   

 

I think you could possibly classify that as a rant.

 

I said it before and I'll say it again so I can post another picture -  all this can be fixed by  simply having young ladies in gold bikinis wandering around paying the parking fees for you.

 

Get it sorted!

 

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by monkeysarefun

[monkeysarefun]

10 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

 

 

One little thing about these private parking companies that they want to keep secret. Any fines they impose are not legally enforceable without a court order, only public bodies such as Local Authorities can enforce fines. 

Same thing here for all the privatised toll roads infesting the major cities.

Edited March 26, 2023 by monkeysarefun

[PhilJ W]

Goodnight all.

[BSW01]

Good evening everyone 

 

The weather this morning was glorious, so I spent the morning in the garden, mainly pulling up weeds, they seem to be germinating as quick as I can pull them up. The afternoon was spent in the workshop, doing some more work on the Sherman’s turret gearbox. I had to do a small modification to it, as the worm kept jumping out of mesh. This was remedied by adding a bearing to the free end. I even managed to test it, by holding it in place underneath the tank superstructure and applying power to the motor. I’d already worked out the gearbox ratio at about 2000:1 and using a voltage of 6v I’m hoping it will be somewhere near to what I was looking for. When I powered up the motor, the turret rotated very smoothly and not too fast, so very pleased with that. I then started work on the method of fixing the gearbox to the underside of the tank’s superstructure, which comprises of a slide in lip on one side and a screwed clamp on the other, with an adjustable screw at the rear, the turret then musts drops into place. Once it’s all finished, I’ll take some photos, which will probably make more sense. 

[BSW01]

Goodnight all 

[PeterBB]

@monkeysarefun

 

I take your point when it is mandatory to vote but have noted the mess in a number of situations when the overall effect is stalemate  or 'nothing positive' takes place because a will not work with B if they want this and C won't work with A becaue of this and that - the 'take things seriiusly and discuss' does not seem to happen.

 

 

[Tony_S]

2 hours ago, polybear said:

Anaglypta Textured Wallpaper

My parents had that everywhere.  Even on ceilings. I never knew how to wallpaper as Dad always wanted to be alone while he papered rooms or especially stairwells!

Edited March 26, 2023 by Tony_S

[monkeysarefun]

1 hour ago, PeterBB said:

@monkeysarefun

 

I take your point when it is mandatory to vote but have noted the mess in a number of situations when the overall effect is stalemate  or 'nothing positive' takes place because a will not work with B if they want this and C won't work with A becaue of this and that - the 'take things seriiusly and discuss' does not seem to happen.

 

 

But the same thing can happen among members of the same party!   (eg - has the UK govt got Brexit sorted yet.....?)