Early Risers.

[Pacific231G]

2 hours ago, The Lurker said:

There's always someone who will be offended. Whether that offence is taken notice of depends on the time and the person offended. If the person or the group is "tough " enough to take it, these days, they can lump it. If the group is one that has been or is persecuted, then one has to tip toe around any possible offence - whether that group takes offence or not. And once the law changed to favour a person who take offence (even if it is not meant), you'll find more people to take offence.

 

So in the 1970s Life of Brian was deemed offensive; these days, if you take offence at it, tough luck.*

 

 

I can see why "colored" (I'm using the American spelling deliberately)  was seen as offensive as it implied that the "normal" or "default" pigmentation of human beings is northern European pale- itself a minor  genetic adaptation to the lack of vitamin D producing UV sunlight in northern lattitudes. It was probably also regarded as offensive because of its frequent use in signs like "colored washroom" (If you've seen the film "Hidden Figures" about female African-American "computers" at NASA you'll be familiar with this.) 

Personally, I think it's only common courtesy to refer to people's ethnic, gender, national or other identity (if you actually need to) in the way they prefer.

 

 

 

[Ian Abel]

Good grief!

 

Update on the "laptop password" situation, after another couple of hours without hearing...

 

IT guy - "so, let's try your email password..."

Provide password.

IT guy - " nope, still not working, let me get back to you..."

 

Me  

[simontaylor484]

The db rating on your bin @polybear is the maximum amount of noise your bin will produce either being dragged out or the lid slamming down

[PhilJ W]

Evening all from Estuary-Land. Arthur Itis has started making his noises again so Nurofen will be deployed. Now to put the kettle on and after a muggatee or two time to tackle Farcebook.

[AndrewC]

Ian, I can share your pain. Been there done that. At least the new employer has an idea of how IT should work. They sent me an email. I clicked the link and voila, everything worked. I've been set up and activated on all the corporate systems via one happy process flow. (that's what we do. Make digital transformation work for people). 

 

As for race. I can't keep up. The acceptable pronoun for just about everyone changes daily. SWBMO's boss said it best (Indian descent) when some f*cknugget told her to go back where she came from. "f*ck off, Coventry is a sh*thole."

 

 

[JohnDMJ]

Good Evening Awl, although I suspect it will not remain so given the flack that seems to be flying around!

 

However, it seems even more controversy looms in the outer world:

 

On 16/07/2021 at 14:10, Tony_S said:

It is an interesting point. Aditi didn’t really like being referred to as “coloured”

 

And I condole with her! A red car, like a black car, is still a car; regardless of colour, shade of colour (and many other parameters including, for example, ethnicity) there is NO difference to that fact that that the subject is a still mere Human Being !

 

On 16/07/2021 at 16:14, The Lurker said:

So in the 1970s Life of Brian was deemed offensive; these days, if you take offence at it, tough luck.*

* and it is very clever and very funny film.

 

Absolutely agree! (And totally non blasphemous!)

 

When I was at University, this film was banned from local viewing by, IIRC, The Town's Womens Guild of Merrow. It attracted a huge audience when screened on campus!

 

Allegedly, there is "Freedom of Speech" in the UK but some sought / seek to repress this (Mary Whitehouse, Lord Longford, et alia, spring to mind.)

 

I often wonder, given the fascination for old film remakes (The Thomas Crown Affair, The Italian Job, Mary Poppins et alia), if there is an attempt in this direction?

 

I would be seriously interested to see how the "Carry On" series of films would be made in current times! (I DO NOT include the so-called "Carry On" Columbus in this! [Carp of the worst kind])

Edited July 19, 2021 by JohnDMJ

[Coombe Barton]

... but the wildflower garden flourishes ...

 

https://johncolby.wordpress.com/2021/07/16/chris-whitty-says-scary/

[Ozexpatriate]

14 hours ago, New Haven Neil said:

... it would appear this may be driven from USA parent companies....by demonstration.

Makes me wonder why exactly. In my 35 years or so with US companies I have never seen a "forbidden word" list. It suggests that the company got into some legal difficulty with subpoenaed internal documents - likely all hushed up, where an executive was caught improperly treating an employee in some manner that violated the EEOC* protected categories. 

 

* Equal employment opportunity commission - categories are race, colour, religion, gender,** national origin, age, disability and genetic information. 

 

** the specific category is a different word.

 

I would be very surprised to see a US company pursue what people assume is "PC" for "PC" sake. Occam's Razor suggests the influence of the lawyers.

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by Ozexpatriate

[Ozexpatriate]

10 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

The death toll in Germany is not far short of 100 but with 1,300 people unaccounted for its bound to rise.

We had a similar issue with deaths during our late June heat wave which has now been designated a mass casualty event.

 

It took some time to discover people dead in their homes who lived alone.

 

During the heatwave, about 580 people were considered excess deaths in British Columbia - there were around 719 reported sudden deaths which was triple the 'norm' for the period. In Oregon 83 cases (from memory) were researched to be hyperthermia, but I've seen news reports stating numbers as high as 116, and 91 in Washington.

 

Around 800 people died, directly due to the weather, during the period of a long weekend. This is not normal.

[brianusa]

13 hours ago, polybear said:

 

That's not a car, it's a bulldozer....

That's the all American Pick Up!  Virtually gone from these shores; there used to be so many!  They seem to be alive and well in Australia fortunately, sadly unlikely to be seen back in the US.

   Brian.

[The White Rabbit]

8 hours ago, Erichill16 said:

I’ve always wondered if you could check a scammer by ‘accidentally’ giving a wrong piece of information. A scammer would ‘swallow’ all your details and make no query but a genuine caller would not allow you to proceed.

 Haven’t really thought it through fully yet any ideas out there?

 

It depends on what the policies of the [genuine] organisation are. Many have telephony rules which say that operators/call centre staff don't query or say anything to answers which don't match the details they have on file. They might ask you another question and if your answer matches that one, pass you without comment. If you give another answer which doesn't match, then chances are you'll be told something along the lines of 'we can't proceed with your call, write to us or check your details and call back, either way, we can't proceed with your call'. They won't say you got the answer to (say) question 3 wrong. 

 

That gives you the chance to play it safe and give fake answers and if you are told you've failed security on an inbound call, you can phone the organisation back again on a number you have for them, pass security and explain. (After first ringing your mobile/landline to make sure the call has genuinely finished and Crook no. 1 doesn't just put the call on mute, play some recording of a dial tone and then pass the call to Crook no. 2 sitting next to him after you've dialled the relevant number...).  

[brianusa]

1 hour ago, Pacific231G said:

Personally, I think it's only common courtesy to refer to people's ethnic, gender, national or other identity (if you actually need to) in the way they prefer.

 

Trouble is, how do you know which one they prefer?

 

[Ozexpatriate]

8 hours ago, polybear said:

Bear was pondering earlier (as Bears often do) - is referring to someone as being "black" now considered non-pc?  Or is the acceptable term now "coloured".  If so, does that also mean that referring to someone as being "white" also non-pc?  If so, what's the accepted term now? 

I will offer the US interpretation - I can't speak for British usage.

 

"Colored" is definitely not preferred. It still exists in the names of organizations - like the "NAACP" but someone who identifies as African American would not like to be called "Colored".

 

"Black" is acceptable as a substitute for African American but "People of color" is often used, inclusively of Hispanic - meaning in this case, non-European LatinX (Latino and Latina etc), Asian and more. "Black and brown people" is often used as well.

 

Coming into currency is BIPOC - "Black, indigenous, and people of color" as an inclusive catch-all for 'non-white'. "Non-white" would not be preferred.

 

The term "white" is not considered offensive and would be used in a police description. "Caucasian" is not used.

[brianusa]

2 hours ago, simontaylor484 said:

A lot of the problem is the so called snowflake generation that take offence to anything!

 

No comment!

[Barry O]

It matters not what colour, shape, size,ethnicity people are.. they are all the same insides and it's how they interact with others which is important.

 

Local Cricketers around here were very upset to be told they may be termed Pakistani/Indian/Caribbean West yorkshiremen. They are all West Yorkshireman.  

 

As the players said "no one asked me what I am??"

 

Baz

 

 

[Ozexpatriate]

12 minutes ago, brianusa said:

That's the all American Pick Up!  Virtually gone from these shores; there used to be so many!  They seem to be alive and well in Australia fortunately, sadly unlikely to be seen back in the US.

Brian I beg to differ. The Aussie 'ute' (properly the coupé utility) is indeed very like the Ford Ranchero and Chevy El Camino, but it is not the traditional US pick-up truck.

 

Sadly with the demise of automobile manufacturing in Australia by the likes of Ford and GM (Holden) the Aussie 'ute' too is dead.

 

The traditional US full-size pick-up truck continues to be a top-selling category for Ford, GM and Dodge.  The F-150 is the top selling vehicle in the US and has been since 1982. The market did move away from the compact pick-up some years ago.

[Andrew P]

1 hour ago, grandadbob said:

 

 

Somewhat amazed that Bear has to ask this.  IIRC the other day Bear was jumping up and down in the bin to compact it.  It’s quite obvious to me that if he falls in head first and gets stuck that is the minimum sound level his shouts of help need to reach for Buddy next door to hear and extricate him!  Simples! 

Oh, its so good to have you back Bob.

[Ozexpatriate]

7 hours ago, leopardml2341 said:

... I asked why was it not acceptable for a blackboard to referred to as such when the accepted term for a white board was ok

I do not believe the term "blackboard" is considered offensive in the US, though it was colloquially called a "chalkboard" for generations.

 

Consider me amazed that it would be considered offensive in the UK.

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by Ozexpatriate

[brianusa]

3 minutes ago, Ozexpatriate said:

Brian I beg to differ. The Aussie 'ute' (properly the coupé utility) is indeed very like the Ford Ranchero and Chevy El Camino, but it is not the traditional US pick-up truck.

Sadly with the demise of automobile manufacturing in Australia by the likes of Ford and GM (Holden) the Aussie 'ute' too is dead.

 

The traditional US full-size pick-up truck continues to be a top-selling category for Ford, GM and Dodge.  The F-150 is the top selling vehicle in the US and has been since 1982. The market did move away from the compact pick-up some years ago.

Mike, I beg your pardon! .  Sorry, it looks too much like those you mentioned, but a shame they all disappeared especially being replaced by gargantuan full size pick ups which are generally to big to fit in the average garage and parking space.

   Brian.

[tigerburnie]

Sadly slavery still exists, found in Leicester and it was Asians running the businesses, seems it's common in the far east too, as for racism, it exists in all societies, it is not just white against black, there have been cases of Eastern Europeans running gangmaster businesses in Scotland where people are bought and sold. I'm white and I have over the years been abused by white and black people, look at the Indian Caste system, I witnessed some nasty racism of Indians against other Indians when working in Leicester in the 1980's, opened my eyes, I hadn't realised it existed. I don't know the answer, but I do believe that tribalism seems to be on the increase.

[Ozexpatriate]

3 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

I'm waiting for a campaign to rename the offence of blackmail. It's origins have nothing to do with race but came from a group of thieves from Scotland who didn't clean their chain mail and who demanded money from communities south of the birder, in return for not stealing their cattle.

Not quite. It does originate in the Anglo-Scottish borderlands but the root word of "mail" here is from Old English for "tribute" or "rent" not chainmail. I see debate online as to the source of black - either as denoting negativity, or possibly from Scots Gaelic blathaich meaning "protect". 

 

There is also "whitemail" (rent payment in silver) and "greenmail". 

[polybear]

1 hour ago, grandadbob said:

Somewhat amazed that Bear has to ask this.  IIRC the other day Bear was jumping up and down in the bin to compact it.  It’s quite obvious to me that if he falls in head first and gets stuck that is the minimum sound level his shouts of help need to reach for Buddy next door to hear and extricate him!  Simples! 

 

Buddy is off to France for 3 weeks on Sunday - me thinks that I'll have to shout louder.....

 

1 hour ago, simontaylor484 said:

The db rating on your bin @polybear is the maximum amount of noise your bin will produce either being dragged out or the lid slamming down

 

Will it also cover the sound of the bottom falling out as it's lifted?

 

In other news:

Bear spent the afternoon "deciding" on a Hob Splashback......I'm now down to four different options (none of which are any of those shown in a previous post)

.  I discovered that the manufacturer offers an image library of some 250 million different photos, illustrations and designs, all of which can be cropped etc. as required to suit.  No wonder Bear is feeling frazzled.

As an example, here are some images that other ER'ers may associate with, all available as a Hob Splashback:

 

 

 

 

 

 

In other news:

Bear's fun for tomorrow will be finishing off the clean-up of the loft (to take place nice n' early, before the temperature gets silly), followed by sorting a few things for buddy next door - an old (but in vgc) B&D Router (I have a second, much more capable router & table, still to be used despite being some years old) and a set of TCT cutters for large holes (as much as 100mm+) thru' brick walls for pipework etc. - I can see no further need for these, and if so not for many years (I hope).  All part of starting to clear the loft of as much unnecessary stuff as possible.

 

I also have someone coming to collect some parts of the old kitchen worktops, which were advertised via Freecycle (Freegle) a few days ago.  Saves me getting rid of them, keeps them out of landfill and helps someone else out.  A result.

 

I also hope to get four more kitchen door handles fitted - they've been on my "must do" list for some days now.  As for the F1 race, I may watch bits of it but usually find it to be such a procession nowadays that it's lost the magic it had some years ago.

 

 

 

 

[tetsudofan]

Back in 1972 I was working with The Chartered Bank in what was then Bombay the Indian Government had introduced a policy of localisation of positions in foreign companies operating in India.

 

When it was my time to leave India my position was localised and just before I left India a number of my staff said that they were sorry to see me leaving. I asked them why and all the responses were basically the same - I treated them all fairly as Indians but their new Indian boss will treat them as Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Christians etc.

 

Keith

[Ozexpatriate]

2 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

Personally, I think it's only common courtesy to refer to people's ethnic, gender, national or other identity (if you actually need to) in the way they prefer.

Unless one is a demographer or it's a description in the police blotter, it's hard to imagine why it is actually necessary (other than implications through pronouns) to refer to someone's identity at all.

[polybear]

6 minutes ago, tigerburnie said:

Sadly slavery still exists, found in Leicester and it was Asians running the businesses, seems it's common in the far east too, as for racism, it exists in all societies, it is not just white against black, there have been cases of Eastern Europeans running gangmaster businesses in Scotland where people are bought and sold. I'm white and I have over the years been abused by white and black people, look at the Indian Caste system, I witnessed some nasty racism of Indians against other Indians when working in Leicester in the 1980's, opened my eyes, I hadn't realised it existed. I don't know the answer, but I do believe that tribalism seems to be on the increase.

 

When Bear worked in Mumbai for a few weeks in '98 I travelled with a very good friend of mine, who's Indian (born in the UK); on arrival at Mumbai Airport he was bounced by two Customs Staff - when I noticed I went back and called out to him, asking what was up.  As soon as the Customs Staff noticed he was with me they let him go.  I asked him what had happened: He's Muslim, and they were Sikh....