Early Risers.

[jamie92208]

Good moaning from the Charente.  Still rather damp here.  Shopping to be shopped and ears to be lowered so better get a move on. 

 

Jamie

[iL Dottore]

One of the intriguing mysteries of genetics is why people continue exhibit what appear to be traits that are - apparently - inessential or irrelevant for survival. These traits include things like tasting coriander, smelling asparagine in urine, being able to roll your tongue, non-detached earlobes and so on Of course, in genetics - as always - the answers are complex and incomplete. Putting it simply (and to avoid digging out my reference books for exact details) it’s because the genes* associated with those traits are also associated with other, survival advantageous, traits.

 

Rather interesting, I thought, the discussion around foxgloves. The number of poisonous plants we have in our gardens without us noticing is surprisingly high. Often, with fruit and vegetables, one part is safe to eat - the other is poisonous. Rhubarb is a good example (incidentally before we got Schotty, someone from the shelter came to inspect our garden to see if we had anything dog toxic amongst our vegetation). In Ian Fleming’s You Only Live Twice, Bond tracks Blofeld down to Japan - where Blofeld has created a beautiful garden in which every single plant is highly toxic.

Add some large spiders and a couple of big snakes and you’d end up with a completely PB free environment.

 

* with human genetics very little is controlled by just one gene alone

Edited May 21 by iL Dottore

[monkeysarefun]

1 hour ago, Grizz said:

Hurrrrrrrrah! 

 

Watch out - it didnt work out too well for the last bloke who thought he could beat the police  by wearing armour..

 

 

 

 

 

[iL Dottore]

On the topic of poisonous plants with medicinal properties.
 

I have spent my career developing drugs against disease (mostly cancers) and even with today’s sophisticated technology, extensive knowledge database, demanding scientific methodology and stringent ethical controls, it’s still a bit hit and miss (what works in the lab and in animals often disappoints in humans). All of which leads me to the question of how various herbalists, wise women, witch doctors, apothecaries and so on of the past a) found out that a given poisonous plant could be medicinal, b) found out that it could be used to treat X and c) found out the effective dose of that plant to treat X?

 

I reckon that, in olden times, purveyors of healing nostrums must have had a very reliable and continual supply of

• Slaves*
• Prisoners of War*
• Prisoners (criminals)*
• The handicapped
• Spare children
• Surplus old people

All of which could be used as guinea-pigs as their demise would have had minimal impact on the tribe/clan/village/kingdom.

 

I tend to favour the “surplus old people” theory. Let’s face it, you have an elderly, querulous, cantankerous, bad-tempered and interfering MiL (or granny) taking up space, eating a lot of your scarce food whilst contributing nothing in return. So who else would be a better candidate for a primitive clinical trial? I can just imagine the situation: “MiL, this is Dr Ugg - he has a wonderful new potion to treat your aches and pains”**  And if the potion kills off MiL - then it is the will of the gods!

Obviouly, eventually they got there! And I reckon it was a win-win situation: elderly relatives were made useful again/disposed of tidily and the tribe/clan/village/kingdom got a tested and (somewhat) effective new treatment!

*although slaves, prisoners of war and criminals were probably of more value as forced labour.

**It’s not murder if a “healer” does it for you!

 

Edited May 21 by iL Dottore
Text

[jamie92208]

I have similar thoughts about how, for instance, some shepherd's in eastern Africa, let some beans mature, roasted them then crushed them and added hot water to make a drink. Mind you he may well have tested the brew on his sheep as he probably didn't have his Mil with him. 

 

Jamie

Edited May 21 by jamie92208

[grandadbob]

Good morning all,

It's a bit dull here but dry at the moment. Scattered, heavy and thundery showers are forecast. 12°C rising to 20°C.

Another visit to Sainsbury's is scheduled today as one of the special offer items The Boss wants was out of stock but is coming in today.  I hope so otherwise the savings made will be eroded by the cost of petrol to get there!

Jet washing in the back garden was completed to my satisfaction but I won't be doing the front today if it's raining.

Parcels from EE containing new Broadband stuff due today via Royal Mail but changeover won't take place for 3 weeks.

Have a good one,

Bob.

[Hroth]

1 hour ago, iL Dottore said:

One of the intriguing mysteries of genetics is why people continue exhibit what appear to be traits that are - apparently - inessential or irrelevant for survival. These traits include things like tasting coriander, smelling asparagine in urine, being able to roll your tongue, non-detached earlobes and so on Of course, in genetics - as always - the answers are complex and incomplete. Putting it simply (and to avoid digging out my reference books for exact details) it’s because the genes* associated with those traits are also associated with other, survival advantageous, traits.

 

Rather interesting, I thought, the discussion around foxgloves. The number of poisonous plants we have in our gardens without us noticing is surprisingly high. Often, with fruit and vegetables, one part is safe to eat - the other is poisonous. Rhubarb is a good example (incidentally before we got Schotty, someone from the shelter came to inspect our garden to see if we had anything dog toxic amongst our vegetation). In Ian Fleming’s You Only Live Twice, Bond tracks Blofeld down to Japan - where Blofeld has created a beautiful garden in which every single plant is highly toxic.

Add some large spiders and a couple of big snakes and you’d end up with a completely PB free environment.

 

* with human genetics very little is controlled by just one gene alone

 

There's a Poison Garden at Alnwick in Northumberland.

https://www.alnwickgarden.com/the-garden/poison-garden/

 

Dunno about spiders, but a colony of Adders might spice things up!

 

 

[TheQ]

Mooring Awl,

3 hours sleep, long awake 3 hours sleep.. Woke with a headache.

Ben the getting grumpy Collie persuaded me to go on patrol, head has cleared  somewhat. Mostly blue welkin, light white clouds.

 

I suspect the poisonous aspect of plants was often that looks nice , I'll try that...  Then becoming ill or dying the "community" would add that to their don't touch that list.. The fun then come when you have two different plants that looks the same, or is the same but is partly or due to ageing poisonous during part of its life..

For instance the discovery of ergotism in Rye causing hallucinations and or gangrene is comparatively recent.

 

I also remember the sudden panic inland of the Bristol, Weston Super Mare area by the authorities about plants becoming poisonous if grown on certain soils and trying to ban vegetable gardening.. The locals said don't be stupid, if the leaves go yellow round the edges just don't eat it.

 

I see a politician on TV, ex health secretary 2010 doing the " it wasn't me" about the blood scandal.  

 

I'm intending to try the mower this morning, before the soggy arrives, if it's good for an hour before the engine starts hunting then it's not likely to be dirt in the fuel...

 

But first time for breaky.

 

 

 

[Winslow Boy]

21 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

I have similar thoughts about how, for instance, some sheperedvin eastern Africa, let some beans mature, roasted them the crushed them and added hot water to make a drink. Mind you he may well have tested the brew on his sheep as he probably didn't have his Mil with him. 

 

Jamie

Much like when Raleigh brought back the potatoes, tobacco and the tomato. Incidentally the potatoes and tomato, both of which are related were considered poisonous.

[Winslow Boy]

47 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

On the topic of poisonous plants with medicinal properties.
 

I have spent my career developing drugs against disease (mostly cancers) and even with today’s sophisticated technology, extensive knowledge database, demanding scientific methodology and stringent ethical controls, it’s still a bit hit and miss (what works in the lab and in animals often disappoints in humans). All of which leads me to the question of how various herbalists, wise women, witch doctors, apothecaries and so on of the past a) found out that a given poisonous plant could be medicinal, b) found out that it could be used to treat X and c) found out the effective dose of that plant to treat X?

 

I reckon that, in olden times, purveyors of healing nostrums must have had a very reliable and continual supply of

• Slaves*
• Prisoners of War*
• Prisoners (criminals)*
• The handicapped
• Spare children
• Surplus old people

All of which could be used as guinea-pigs as their demise would have had minimal impact on the tribe/clan/village/kingdom.

 

I tend to favour the “surplus old people” theory. Let’s face it, you have an elderly, querulous, cantankerous, bad-tempered and interfering MiL (or granny) taking up space, eating a lot of your scarce food whilst contributing nothing in return. So who else would be a better candidate for a primitive clinical trial? I can just imagine the situation: “MiL, this is Dr Ugg - he has a wonderful new potion to treat your aches and pains”**  And if the potion kills off MiL - then it is the will of the gods!

Obviouly, eventually they got there! And I reckon it was a win-win situation: elderly relatives were made useful again/disposed of tidily and the tribe/clan/village/kingdom got a tested and (somewhat) effective new treatment!

*although slaves, prisoners of war and criminals were probably of more value as forced labour.

**It’s not murder if a “healer” does it for you!

 

Hmm I wouldn't go round muttering that if I were you at the moment, as there's quite a bit of a hoo-haw about infected blood and the 'role' of the medical profession. In actual fact having a nuclear fall out bunker might just come in handy.

[Winslow Boy]

7 minutes ago, TheQ said:

Mooring Awl,

3 hours sleep, long awake 3 hours sleep.. Woke with a headache.

Ben the getting grumpy Collie persuaded me to go on patrol, head has cleared  somewhat. Mostly blue welkin, light white clouds.

 

I suspect the poisonous aspect of plants was often that looks nice , I'll try that...  Then becoming ill or dying the "community" would add that to their don't touch that list.. The fun then come when you have two different plants that looks the same, or is the same but is partly or due to ageing poisonous during part of its life..

For instance the discovery of ergotism in Rye causing hallucinations and or gangrene is comparatively recent.

 

I also remember the sudden panic inland of the Bristol, Weston Super Mare area by the authorities about plants becoming poisonous if grown on certain soils and trying to ban vegetable gardening.. The locals said don't be stupid, if the leaves go yellow round the edges just don't eat it.

 

I see a politician on TV, ex health secretary 2010 doing the " it wasn't me" about the blood scandal.  

 

I'm intending to try the mower this morning, before the soggy arrives, if it's good for an hour before the engine starts hunting then it's not likely to be dirt in the fuel...

 

But first time for breaky.

 

 

 

Interestingly some plants were used to treat certain disease because they looked like the symptom. For example the spotted leaf of Pulmonaria resembled lung tissue and so was used in the treatment of lung diseases.

[Barry O]

Ey up!

 

No ra8n here yet..  amazing for a Tuesday! However it says it will becraining in Elsecar this morning.. wondernif the ground will dry out in time for our Over 60s cricket this afternoon?

 

@PhilJ W only some types of bought in picallili are sweet.. our home made uses pickling vinegar and mustard powder...

 

Awaiting my blood test results from last week.. probably due today.. fingers crossed they will be ok.

 

The US Air force are hopeless at target recognition.. Blue on blue with them is, unfortunately, a regular occurrence..

 

Stay safe!

 

Baz

[New Haven Neil]

Morning, from a rock that once again is dry, wonders will never cease. 14c, sunny, still.  Looks like the last nice day for now though.

 

Awaiting a call from the vet today, but they can't give a time, so I'm stuck in the house until he deigns to call.  Need to discuss some medication I'm on that is not agreeing with me, perhaps I'm one of those experiments.....

 

So a morning of unspecified pottering looks likely, perhaps followed by an afternoon of much the same.  Looks like housework then.  Pah.

[Hroth]

16 minutes ago, Winslow Boy said:

Interestingly some plants were used to treat certain disease because they looked like the symptom. For example the spotted leaf of Pulmonaria resembled lung tissue and so was used in the treatment of lung diseases.

 

Then there's that mushroom, believed to have aphrodisiac properties .

Or work like viagra...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phallus_impudicus

 

Edited May 21 by Hroth

[BoD]

1 hour ago, iL Dottore said:

I tend to favour the “surplus old people” theory. Let’s face it, you have an elderly, querulous, cantankerous, bad-tempered and interfering

Well that’s half of ERs taken care of then.

[Hroth]

5 minutes ago, BoD said:

Well that’s half of ERs taken care of then.

 

Only half?

 

[polybear]

39 minutes ago, TheQ said:

I'm intending to try the mower this morning, before the soggy arrives, if it's good for an hour before the engine starts hunting then it's not likely to be dirt in the fuel...

 

 

Heat induced fault/overheating perhaps?

 

7 minutes ago, BoD said:

Well that’s half of ERs taken care of then.

 

The other half muddle LMS/LNER......🤣

[Erichill16]

1 hour ago, iL Dottore said:

 All of which leads me to the question of how various herbalists, wise women, witch doctors, apothecaries and so on of the past a) found out that a given poisonous plant could be medicinal, b) found out that it could be used to treat X and c) found out the effective dose of that plant to treat X?

 

 

Don’t forget Prepation H ointment with its shark liver oil!

 

”Oh my ar$re is stinging like  bu88ery, I know I’ll smear some shark liver oil on it!”

[BSW01]

Good morning everyone 

 

Up a little earlier than usual, due mainly to get ready for a day out with some friends. We’re meeting them at Chatsworth House, which is about halfway between us. The weather is looking good, so we’re hoping for a nice walk round the gardens etc. 

Back later. 
 

Brian

[Hroth]

3 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

All of which leads me to the question of how various herbalists, wise women, witch doctors, apothecaries and so on of the past a) found out that a given poisonous plant could be medicinal, b) found out that it could be used to treat X and c) found out the effective dose of that plant to treat X?

 

1 hour ago, Erichill16 said:

Don’t forget Prepation H ointment with its shark liver oil!

 

”Oh my ar$re is stinging like  bu88ery, I know I’ll smear some shark liver oil on it!”

 

Reminds me of Terry Pratchetts discussion* of how a concoction to turn people into zombies was discovered....

 

* In "The Last Continent"**, I think.

** Not about Australia, its claimed...

 

Edited May 21 by Hroth
Update

[The White Rabbit]

10 hours ago, roundhouse said:

... Sunday morning another very pleasant 40 minute drive to Stow On The Wold where we were given free sausage rolls whilst setting the layout up in the ancient town hall. Its upstairs but the lift has always worked each time that we have exhibited there. By the end of the show we had eaten too many cakes then they came round and offered us the cakes that were left. Good job that I am not diabetic although one of our helpers is slightly but it didnt stop him having even more cake than us. My other half refers to this event as 'the cake show'. ...

 

I'd like to give an appreciative mention to the Sheffield (Neepsend) show/team - they were also hospitable with cake during set-up and during the afternoons. That and a couple of other 'little' things really make a difference. I haven't been able to go for a few years (Covid and my own health issues) but remember it for several good reasons. 

 

[DaveF]

The shopping has come, a bit of blue has appeared in the sky, so it's all good so far.

 

I'm not sure what I'll do today, I have to make a phone call first to reorganise an appointment - fortunately it isn't urgent, it's just that the day on which it is booked now has someone coming to see me which I can't rearrange.  Once that is done I may go out somewhere even though the forecast is not perfect as it will be worse for then next couple of days.

 

Sometime the tomato plants need to go into their final pots - hopefully a 10 minute job.

 

David

[pH]

1 hour ago, jamie92208 said:

I have similar thoughts about how, for instance, some sheperedvin eastern Africa, let some beans mature, roasted them the crushed them and added hot water to make a drink. 

 

1 hour ago, Winslow Boy said:

Much like when Raleigh brought back …  tobacco 

 

 

[Gwiwer]

11 hours ago, Dave Hunt said:

18 hours ago, monkeysarefun said:

Apparently hating Coriander is a  scientific thing - some people love it - to others like me, it tastes like old socks and soap and it blights anything that has it in.

 

A bit like Brussels sprouts; apparently there is a substance in them that only some people can taste but which to them is fairly horrible. Hence to those people sprouts are revolting but to many (me included) they are quite palatable

It is said that for around 20% of us the coriander plant tastes like soap. 
 

Dr. SWMBO is in that 20% 

 

I love it. The natural fragrance enhances dishes from salads to curries. 
 

Ground coriander has the same effect and is only partially disguised by cooking. Dr SWMBO can find some baked items taste soapy if they have coriander in them in any form. 
 

11 hours ago, Dave Hunt said:

11 hours ago, BSW01 said:

They are definitely foxgloves, or to give them their proper name Digitalis. As has already been said, they are poisonous, so don’t eat them. 

 

The poison can also be absorbed through the skin - probably not fatally but uncomfortably - so use gloves when handling them

Absolutely definitely Foxglove or Digitalis. Do not be confused by some online “plant identifiers” as we noted Google referred to them as “Ladygloves”. 
 

Essential for the well-being of bees which are in turn essential for our continued existence. Therefore they are to be encouraged provided we understand they ate not so good for us. 
 

Avoid touching any part of the plant if possible. If you must touch them wear latex or leather-type gardening gloves AND wash hands, arms and face thoroughly immediately after contact. 
 

Foxgloves grow abundantly and naturally along many hedgerows. If they have self-seeded in a garden they can be left alone in most cases. They only flower in the one distinctive shade of mauve and the flowers are elongated “glove-like” in form. 
 

Hollyhocks are rather taller plants - they can grow up to 2 metres tall - and flower in a range of colours and with rounder more open flowers than foxgloves. 

[Erichill16]

11 minutes ago, The White Rabbit said:

 

I'd like to give an appreciative mention to the Sheffield (Neepsend) show/team - they were also hospitable with cake during set-up and during the afternoons. That and a couple of other 'little' things really make a difference. I haven't been able to go for a few years (Covid and my own health issues) but remember it for several good reasons. 

 

Was there myself as a visitor on Sunday afternoon and didn’t see you. (or any other rabbits if truth be told)

Did you have a layout there?