Early Risers.

[BSW01]

Good morning everyone 

 

Yesterday it was decreed that WE didn’t need to go to Waitrose, so we spent the afternoon reading our books! I’m not sure what the plans are for today, but I’m bound to find out soon enough. 
 

Back later. 
 

Brian

[Tony_S]

Morning all.

It is overcast with intermittent drizzle here. 
I have to have my stitches from my back removed today. This will be at the GP surgery rather than the clinic on Canvey Island that put them in. 
I have a couple of WiFi plugs to play with  that arrived earlier this morning.

Tony

 

[PhilJ W]

Morning all from Estuary-Land. A good night last night, seven hours sleep last night without any interruptions. Though this morning the knee was playing up and then I realised that the knee brace had slipped. It only needed putting back into place and now everythings OK. I was contemplating the G word today but its now started raining so I'll have to find something to do.

[Ohmisterporter]

Reading about execution by being "blown from a cannon" reminded me of a film or tv series about the Indian Mutiny that had a scene where captured prisoners were dealt with by that method. In the film the prisoner was tied with each hand to a field gun wheel with his midrift over the muzzle of the gun. The role of the prisoner was played by an Indian actor who should perhaps have told his agent to read the contract more carefully. 

Also "blown from a cannon" is described in Flashman in the Great Game by one of my favourite authors George Macdonald Fraser. In it the eponymous hero is mistaken for a mutineer and tied to a cannon for punishment. I won't say how he survived but he describes the sheer terror of awaiting his fate: some accepted their inevitable death others fought and struggled every inch of the way. Also, there was no point dirtying a good cannon ball, a piece of stone of suitable size could be used just as effectively, after all it didn't have far to travel. On that happy note, have a good day and stay safe all.

[jamie92208]

Strangely enough I am old enough to have met people involved in judicial executions.  In Leeds they were in Armley prison always at 09.00 with the executioner entering the cell on the first stroke of 9 on the town hall clock.  The prisoner was usually dead by the last stroke.  An hour later HM Coroner would hold an inquest at the prison to record a verdict of lawful execution. The local vice squad Sgt, who I later worked with, had the job of empanelling a jury for the inquest. He had a rota of publicans. They would always go to the prison, view the body and then hold the inquest. Afterwards they would all go to one of the pubs for a drink, often with the executioner and his assistant.  I was also told that at 09.00 the officer in the case would be summoned to his  Chief Supts office to be informed that the sentence had been carried out. 

 

Jamie

[The White Rabbit]

There's always Arthur Jarrett's fate: http://montypython.50webs.com/scripts/Meaning_of_Life/12.htm (text only - no graphics...). 

 

Morning all. I didn't eat the salmon mousse but feel like I did. A quiet day I think ... 

[Hroth]

I vaguely recall the TV programme showing "execution by cannon" and the Flashman book too, though I don't recall his no doubt audacious manner of escape!  I would have thought that there would be no need for the cannon to contain anything beyond the usual charge and wadding to keep the charge in place, which combined with the muzzle velocity of the expanding gasses would be enough to do fatal damage to the victim.

 

[iL Dottore]

Viewing all the various erudite and informed posts about methods of execution, murder, et cetera et cetera, that have been made on ER over the past few weeks, it occurred to my good chum, Captain Cynical that it is perhaps as well that the assorted members on ER are, shall we say, somewhat limited in their activities by age and infirmity.

 

He says that we are fortunate that the denizens of ER are too busy grumbling about parking at Tesco and wondering when they will get their next GP appointment to lay waste to entire continents and butcher entire civilian populations.

 

Adding that were the assembled denizens of ER both hale and hearty and able to organise themselves into some kind of coherent body. they would be a terrible and awesome sight to behold: the Mongol hordes of Genghis Khan, would be but a small convention of mild mannered chartered accountants from Cheam in comparison.

 

Is our dear chum, Captain Cynical indulging in a little hyperbole and exaggeration for comic effect?

 

Perhaps.

 

But ask yourself this: would you really want to see @Dave F, @Tony_S, @New Haven Neil, @Barry O or @southern42 (to name but a few) go full Beserker on us? 

 

[jjb1970]

As I think you all know, I  am generally very positive about my current domicile, but I  am resolutely against capital punishment and find Singapore's continued use of it to be a stain on a country which I greatly admire in most other respects. 

 

I am not saying there aren't people out there who I would say deserve the most severe punishment,  but frankly I don't have confidence in the infallibility of any justice system. And you can't correct a miscarriage after killing a wrongfully convicted victim. And that's with respect to cases where the accused is properly defended in court in a fair trial, at the risk of going off the rails there are cases where the trial process is anything but fair (withheld evidence and such like) or where some mediocre lawyer or lawyer who doesn't want to rock the boat helps get a guilty verdict.

 

How many times have people applauded a wrongful get banged to right and then for a very different version of events to appear down the line? I also have (less than) zero confidence in most of the press to report accurately and dig information in the way of a small minority of intrepid journalists.

 

Even at an ethical level I don't like the idea of taking life. If it's OK for the state to take life then where does it stop? A philosophical question which has vexed me for many years is this - how many people does it take to make the unacceptable acceptable? We venerate the law, but if a majority were to vote for a politician advocating genocide and which enacted laws to enable such a crime would the fact that it was lawfully carried out in accordance with the wishes of the people make it right?

[iL Dottore]

2 hours ago, New Haven Neil said:

iD's unwanted will be safe - I never saw 'seacocks' on any ship I sailed on. Keeping the sea out was of more imprtance.

Is it perhaps something that is confined to Naval ships and boats? I’ve read quite a few histories describing events where, in extremis, the crew scuttled the ship by opening the seacocks before taking to the lifeboats.

 

However, the Wiki entry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seacock) implies that seacocks are found on all ships.

 

Perhaps they went by another name on your ships or (says he a bit tongue-in-cheek) they didn’t want to tell you where they were…. Just in case….😁🤣😳

 

[Hroth]

35 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

Is it perhaps something that is confined to Naval ships and boats? I’ve read quite a few histories describing events where, in extremis, the crew scuttled the ship by opening the seacocks before taking to the lifeboats.

 

However, the Wiki entry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seacock) implies that seacocks are found on all ships.

 

Perhaps they went by another name on your ships or (says he a bit tongue-in-cheek) they didn’t want to tell you where they were…. Just in case….😁🤣😳

 

 

'twas how the German Navy scuttled the High Seas fleet in Scapa Flow in 1919.

 

Glug glug glug....

 

 

 

[The Lurker]

On 12/02/2024 at 10:44, PhilJ W said:

This island was once British but in 1667 they done a swap with the Dutch, for Manhattan island. The Dutch thought they got the best of the deal because at the time it was the source of most of the worlds nutmeg.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Run_(island)

I can recommend the book "Nathaniel's Nutmeg" for a run down of this little piece of history...

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nathaniels-Nutmeg-Courage-Changed-History/dp/0340696761

 

[jamie92208]

12 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

'twas how the German Navy scuttled the High Seas fleet in Scapa Flow in 1919.

 

Glug glug glug....

 

 

 

I believe that they went a bit further than just opening valves.  I think that they removed parts of the condenser inlets then opened the valves and smashed them so that they couldn't be shut. There are a huge variety of inlets and outlets below the waterline for such thing as ballast and firefighting. 

 

JJB

Will probably know more.

 

 

Jamie

 

 

[Hroth]

I suppose that as far as us landlubbers are concerned, any device that controls ingress or egress of liquids on a vessel is a "seacock"!

 

As for the High Seas fleet, by time the Royal Navy were aware that the ships were riding rather lower in the water than might be expected, the physical conditions of the valves* would be moot, being under tens of feet of icy seawater and thus inaccessable.

 

* Though smashing the control wheels in the open position would be a sensible precaution.

 

[New Haven Neil]

Indeed there are many valves on a ships side, and they all have a function of letting water in or out - but into or out  of a system.  To use them to flood a ship, you would need to smash or otherwise unbolt something to allow egress of the water.  As I said, the idea is NOT to let the water inside a ship.  It does no good at all.....especially in large spaces.

 

Probably the easiest way on a motorship would be to pull the valves out of the bilge injection - which is an emergency valve connecting the biggest pump in the engineroom to a bilge suction for use when everything else is hopeless. Of take the strumbox cover off the main induction.  On a steamship, the condenser as mentioned above would be the quickest, or again the main induction.   But....there isn't a 'sea-cock' with a big label on it for the express purpose of scuttling a ship.

 

iD I can assure you that any engineer officer would know the location and purpose of just about every valve in an engineroom soon after joining a ship - it's the first thing you do, learn the systems, trace the pipe runs.  Anatomy, but for machines!

[Hroth]

Mmmmmmmm Pancakes!!!

 

 

[petethemole]

2 hours ago, Hroth said:

I vaguely recall the TV programme showing "execution by cannon" and the Flashman book too, though I don't recall his no doubt audacious manner of escape!  I would have thought that there would be no need for the cannon to contain anything beyond the usual charge and wadding to keep the charge in place, which combined with the muzzle velocity of the expanding gasses would be enough to do fatal damage to the victim.

 

There's a whole Wikipedia page on this. Blank charges or grapeshot were used.  There were occasions when spectators were hit by grape.

[jjb1970]

I've always known the 'seacocks' as ships side valves, and as NHN say's, a large ship especially will have lots of ships side valves.

 

In terms of scuttling there are lots of options, such as shutting off the sea water suctions to open the inlet filter boxes and then opening the line up, removing condenser covers, cooler covers, opening up plate coolers. On warships they would use an explosive charge to blow a line to make sure it was impossible to undo. And of course, if you want to sink a ship you need to compromise water tight integrity. You can flood the engine room and the ship will remain afloat so you need to penetrate bulk heads or wedge water tight doors open. On a typical merchant ship that'd probably be a bigger issue than opening up the SW as engine rooms are usually fully water tight other than the shaft tunnel with no penetrations in the fwd bulkhead other than pipes and electrical conduit. It's not that uncommon for engine rooms to flood up to the sea water line when pressure balances out and they just get towed into a safe place and pump the water out after addressing the cause of ingress by inflating a balloon in the SW inlet line or putting what looks like an inflatable dinghy over the inlet hole, or such like.

[jjb1970]

When I worked for a certain very large company one of their big box boats did a double bottom tank survey in Hong Kong in a tank under the engine room. To depart on time they sailed before putting the tank lid back on, unfortunately they hit the bottom on the way out, ruptured the bottom and flooded the engine room. Highly embarrassing but the repairs were actually pretty straightforward after getting the ship into a drydock. Why it sticks in my mind is all the holier-then-thou criticism of the engineers onboard by so many others in the company. That'd be fair enough as it is indeed a dumb thing to do and putting the lid on isn't a big job (5 - 10 minutes if you have the gasket and the faces are clean) but it was an open secret an awful lot of the ships had done it and gotten away with it.

[Gwiwer]

2 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

Seacock

I have heard those referred to as a "Say-coe" by people who should know better but might be wary of sensibilities among mixed company.  

 

Which by a curious turn of events returns me to school days when we had a "supply" music teacher for a term who went by the name of Mr. Peacock.  Yes, you've guessed it.  He was "Mr. Pay-coe".  Along with the history teacher who was "Mr. Hoe-flay" - but it was spelled Horseflesh.  

 

And of the sea.  Well it was fairly lumpy on watch this morning.  Wind WSW 5 - 6, visibility 2 (nautical) miles, sea Moderate - Rough, swell Moderate.  

 

I made my first (supervised) entries in the log which included the Isles of Scilly freighter and a supertanker headed north.  Sorry - heading 359.  Next watch is Friday morning.  Next muggercoffy is right now. 

[Ozexpatriate]

58 minutes ago, petethemole said:

Blank charges or grapeshot were used.

Which was my expectation. Doubtless it was relatively uncommon. Waste of good powder, etc, and presumably messy.

[Ozexpatriate]

1 hour ago, Hroth said:

Mmmmmmmm Pancakes!!!

The only mention so far of Shrove Tuesday | Fat Tuesday | Mardi Gras | Carnivale etc, also "Galentine's Day" (for single besties or those who only feel like they are single*) given that Ash Wednesday and The Feast of the (allegedly) martyred 3rd century Roman** Valentinus are coincident this year.

 

* "Football widowhood" in the US now technically being over (since yesterday) until the Fall.

 

** Or perhaps Terni

 

Happily it is my routine to avoid morning television and can avoid most of the suggestions on how to mark either day.

 

I do think there is something to be said of the reminder that we are stardust (our constituent elements forged in some nuclear stellar smelter) - that variation would be a useful improvement on the liturgical admonition for those who commemorate that tomorrow.

[Barry O]

well that was a meeting and a half.. Common sense is prevailing (or was it my size9s?)

 

Now my plans for this week have gone west as I now have a Zoom meeting on Thursday morning before I leave to Durham.. PAH!

 

Time for a coffee!

 

Ba

[jjb1970]

I was saddened in Tokyo last week as I met an old friend who used to be director of a department of the Japanese government maritime administration. We collaborated on many things and became good friends after realising that not only did we share the same taste in music, we also liked the same performers and recordings, both being great enthusiasts of George Szell, Emil Gilels, Evgeny Mravinsky etc. He disappeared a couple of years ago and we lost contact as his MLIT e-mail went dormant and foolishly I'd only used company mail boxes for our social contact. To cut a long story, last week we met as he was told by a mutual friend in the Japan maritime administration I was visiting and he made the effort to go into Tokyo to see me, he has been afflicted with chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy (CDIP) and has lost control of one of his hands and one of his legs, it was heart breaking to see his condition. Initially I thought he had Parkinsons as the symptoms looked similar to me but he told me his condition, it probably highlights how illiterate I am on medical matters that I'd never heard of CDIP. The Japan government offered him a post as principal researcher in one of their research institutes as a sort of sinecure which was good of them and he seems to be enjoying pure research work free of the political stresses and administrative burdens of his old job. As I understand it CDIP can be controlled and does not necessarily shorten life expectancy but it is clearly a debilitating condition, very sad.

[TheQ]

35 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

I have heard those referred to as a "Say-coe" by people who should know better but might be wary of sensibilities among mixed company.  

 

Which by a curious turn of events returns me to school days when we had a "supply" music teacher for a term who went by the name of Mr. Peacock.  Yes, you've guessed it.  He was "Mr. Pay-coe".  Along with the history teacher who was "Mr. Hoe-flay" - but it was spelled Horseflesh.  

 

And of the sea.  Well it was fairly lumpy on watch this morning.  Wind WSW 5 - 6, visibility 2 (nautical) miles, sea Moderate - Rough, swell Moderate.  

 

I made my first (supervised) entries in the log which included the Isles of Scilly freighter and a supertanker headed north.  Sorry - heading 359.  Next watch is Friday morning.  Next muggercoffy is right now. 

What no Miss Boo Kay?

 

Big bit on carnival on TV this morning...

 

Egg milk flour have been thoroughly mixed and is currently sitting in the fridge for a couple of hours before use.

 

Afternoon Awl, 

Went to the museum this morning, noting big piles of sugar beet on the way...

Got to the turning off the B road to find " road closed"... Ignored it...

Got to the turning off the C road to turn on to the next C road to find signs for " road closed", ignored it.

Drove to the museum with out problem... Except....

Two diggers, a dumper truck, and a tractor and trailer were in the car park, one digger doing it's business.

Found somewhere to park.

They are extending the concrete pan around the bloodhound missile plus other works, , to stop the mud bath.

 

Museum work went well, wedges glued to bases to correct size, then painted , paint hasn't dried yet so they'll be fitted next week.

Particularly pleased with the Type 85 radar I made from plasticard and a bit of the handle end of a paint brush.

 

Driving back, some of the road closed signs had been reversed, but I still drove through without problems..

until...

Those sugar beet, big lorry loading up, bus couldn't get through, I was about tenth car in line... Artic pulled behind me....

After about ten minutes we got to move off...

Time for an eyelid inspection before heating up a frying pan...

 

 

Edited February 13 by TheQ