Early Risers.

[Winslow Boy]

22 minutes ago, AndyID said:

 

I'm going to go a bit "off campus" here but this does raise an interesting question (at least I think it's an interesting question) which is:

 

Was the primitive (by today's standards) nature of the Apollo computers the reason for their success?

 

I doubt if today's astronauts would have a snowball's chance of correcting any sort of problem without massive ground-based, real-time support. That might work at reasonable distances from Earth but it's not going to work beyond that.  Might this be a justification for minimizing the computer abstractions on long range space explorations? In other words - Keep It Simple S 😄

 

You mean fit an off/on switch with the words - try this first.

[Ozexpatriate]

2 minutes ago, AndyID said:

I doubt if today's astronauts would have a snowball's chance of correcting any sort of problem without massive ground-based, real-time support.

Demonstrably, (most notably Apollo XIII) the Apollo astronauts had little chance of correcting any sort of problem without massive ground-based support. The XIII crew would likely have died of CO poisoning if left to their own devices.

 

One of Margaret Hamilton's other contributions was related to software engineering involved with the real time interrupt overload of the AGC on the LM during the landing sequence for Apollo 11.

 

Aldrin's landing checklist had an error (discovered later) - to turn on the hardware RADAR rendezvous switch, which overloaded the AGC during the landing sequence, triggering all the spurious program alarms - but Hamilton's software was compensating for the overload (by error detection and dumping low priority function calls). Without the "GO" commands from mission control, the Eagle would have aborted or worse.

 

SpaceX Starship can't land at all without computer control. There's no spaceflight without massive computing and redundancy.

 

It might be best to exclude AI hypervisors though. 😉

[Ozexpatriate]

7 minutes ago, Winslow Boy said:

You mean fit an off/on switch with the words - try this first.

Arthur Dent: What happens if I press this button?
Ford Prefect: I wouldn't-
Arthur Dent: Oh.
Ford Prefect: What happened?
Arthur Dent: A sign lit up, saying 'Please do not press this button again'

[Ozexpatriate]

7 minutes ago, Ozexpatriate said:

Aldrin's landing checklist had an error (discovered later) - to turn on the hardware RADAR rendezvous switch

The long version of this is on the AGC Wikipedia page:

Quote

The cause was a rapid, steady stream of spurious cycle steals from the rendezvous radar (tracking the orbiting command module), intentionally left on standby during the descent in case it was needed for an abort.

...

It was a peripheral hardware design bug that had already been known and documented by Apollo 5 engineers. However, because the problem had only occurred once during testing, they concluded that it was safer to fly with the existing hardware that they had already tested, than to fly with a newer but largely untested radar system. In the actual hardware, the position of the rendezvous radar was encoded with synchros excited by a different source of 800 Hz AC than the one used by the computer as a timing reference. The two 800 Hz sources were frequency locked but not phase locked, and the small random phase variations made it appear as though the antenna was rapidly "dithering" in position, even though it was completely stationary. These phantom movements generated the rapid series of cycle steals.

 

[AndyID]

15 minutes ago, Ozexpatriate said:

Demonstrably, (most notably Apollo XIII) the Apollo astronauts had little chance of correcting any sort of problem without massive ground-based support. The XIII crew would likely have died of CO poisoning if left to their own devices.

 

One of Margaret Hamilton's other contributions was related to software engineering involved with the real time interrupt overload of the AGC on the LM during the landing sequence for Apollo 11.

 

Aldrin's landing checklist had an error (discovered later) - to turn on the hardware RADAR rendezvous switch, which overloaded the AGC during the landing sequence, triggering all the spurious program alarms - but Hamilton's software was compensating for the overload (by error detection and dumping low priority function calls). Without the "GO" commands from mission control, the Eagle would have aborted or worse.

 

SpaceX Starship can't land at all without computer control. There's no spaceflight without massive computing and redundancy.

 

It might be best to exclude AI hypervisors though. 😉

 

Many are concerned about AI "taking control".

 

There are a couple of ways of looking at this:

 

a) It already has. How many people on the planet have the faintest idea how any of this crepe actually works?

 

b) Humans developed AI so it's guaranteed to be crepe.

[PhilJ W]

Evening all from Estuary-Land. More contenders for the Darwin award.

 

Edited May 21, 2023 by PhilJ W

[PhilJ W]

Now where did I leave that spirit level/hammer/drill?

[Ozexpatriate]

3 minutes ago, AndyID said:

Many are concerned about AI "taking control".

It all depends on one's definition of artificial intelligence.

 

3 minutes ago, AndyID said:

There are a couple of ways of looking at this:

 

a) It already has. How many people on the planet have the faintest idea how any of this crepe actually works?

We've had "heuristics" and "algorithms" built into computing for ages.  (Ask a non-computer scientist to distinguish between heuristics and algorithms.)

 

Some of it is very destructive on a society-wide level - like automatic stock trading, which by itself (on multiple occasions now) creates stock market crashes. Recently we had something similar with bank runs - though there were humans-in-the-loop there.

 

Machine learning has been in place for a long time and is extensively used by us everyday with things like search, translation and navigation. I wouldn't want to abandon those.

 

Generative AI is a different outcome of machine learning and is likely very disruptive.

 

One of the great promises of AI is as a medical diagnostic assistant - particularly in areas like radiology. The notion of a physician making a diagnosis based on a history of hundreds of cases versus an AI assistant based on millions of cases is compelling.

 

Just like teaching humans, garbage in => garbage out. A dermatology machine learning experiment diagnosed rulers as malignant skin cancers because all of the case photographs of malignant melanoma had rulers in them.

 

[BSW01]

Good evening everyone 

 

We didn’t wake up until later than planned, then we ended up lying in longer than expected too, so once up and dressed, I went straight outside to take advantage of the rest of the sunshine. I first fitted the last shelf to the workshop wall, then replaced the shelves contents. I then carried on with the edge piece for the outside corner of the workshop. I need to replace 2 sections, one at the front and one at the rear. Each corner is made from 2 separate parts that when fitted together, form a right angled L shaped corner piece. I’d already started the rear section a couple of days ago, so I finished the 2 pieces that form the rear corner and once happy with the fit, I painted the inside faces of both pieces with a wood preservative and once dried, this was followed by a coat of primer.

 

After dinner, I cut away the rotten wood from the front corner and then made a start on the 2 news pieces, one piece is almost finished, but still requires sanding, the second piece has been cut to its basic shape, but still wants the finishing to the correct size and then sanding. Once that’s done, they too will get coats of preservative and primer applied. 

 

After tea I set up a fruit tea loaf, this will be left to soak overnight and get the flour added tomorrow and then popped in the oven for a couple of hours. 

[BSW01]

Goodnight all 

[pH]

4 hours ago, Ozexpatriate said:

The engineers probably have a lithograph of the Tay Bridge in the office.

When Canadian engineers graduate from degree programs, they receive an iron finger ring in a separate ceremony:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Ring

 

It is to be worn on the pinkie finger of the dominant hand, and is intended to remind them of the “moral, ethical and professional commitment of an engineer”.

 

There is a myth that the first iron rings were made of metal from a bridge in Quebec which collapsed during construction in 1907,  due to design faults. This is not so.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_Bridge

 

 

 

Edited May 21, 2023 by pH
To add link to Quebec bridge collapse.

[PhilJ W]

Goodnight all.

[AndyID]

3 minutes ago, Ozexpatriate said:

It all depends on one's definition of artificial intelligence.

 

We've had "heuristics" and "algorithms" built into computing for ages.  (Ask a non-computer scientist to distinguish between heuristics and algorithms.)

 

Some of it is very destructive on a society-wide level - like automatic stock trading, which by itself (on multiple occasions now) creates stock market crashes. Recently we had something similar with bank runs - though there were humans-in-the-loop there.

 

Machine learning has been in place for a long time and is extensively used by us everyday with things like search, translation and navigation. I wouldn't want to abandon those.

 

Generative AI is a different outcome of machine learning and is likely very disruptive.

 

One of the great promises of AI is as a medical diagnostic assistant - particularly in areas like radiology. The notion of a physician making a diagnosis based on a history of hundreds of cases versus an AI assistant based on millions of cases is compelling.

 

Just like teaching humans, garbage in => garbage out. A dermatology machine learning experiment diagnosed rulers as malignant skin cancers because all of the case photographs of malignant melanoma had rulers in them.

 

 

That's my point.

 

Politicians are more than happy to make decisions despite ignorance of how any of this really works and, probably more importantly, where it will eventually lead.

 

The term "artificial intelligence" is clever, but it's really just another buzz-word. Humans really have little understanding of how the human brain really works. We might understand the basic mechanics but we are kidding ourselves if we think we understand the big picture. Without that understanding any attempt to replicate any sort of intelligence is best case silly and worst case disastrous.

[Ozexpatriate]

23 minutes ago, AndyID said:

Humans really have little understanding of how the human brain really works. 

True but moot.

 

23 minutes ago, AndyID said:

We might understand the basic mechanics but we are kidding ourselves if we think we understand the big picture. Without that understanding any attempt to replicate any sort of intelligence is best case silly ...

I don't think "AI" software is replicating organic intelligence. It is something else. Best case is useful.

 

23 minutes ago, AndyID said:

... worst case disastrous.

Yep.

[monkeysarefun]

4 minutes ago, Ozexpatriate said:

 

 

Yep.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-65631168

[monkeysarefun]

7 hours ago, DaveF said:

 

 

Holly blue (I think) underwing  in greenhouse.    Taken with a Canon Ixus 175 which was handy at the time.  My phone would not focus on it.

 

David

 

Don't think "limitation". Think "Excuse to update"!

 

I reckon the world would be  a  complete @polybear Horrorshow if we were 1 inch tall.

 

 

 

 

Speaking of upgrades, I hate you, Pre-order special.  12K screen....., 10inch print area..... self-levelling........19uPM pixel size........ $140 off retail.

 

https://www.anycubic.com/products/photon-mono-m5s

 

But it would be printer Number 6....

 

But I made almost the cost  price from  selling 3D printed N gauge cars at The Great train Show the weekend before last so it is kind of free if you think about it the right way.....

 

Ahhhhh! 

 

 

 

Edited May 22, 2023 by monkeysarefun

[AndyID]

9 minutes ago, Ozexpatriate said:

I don't think "AI" software is replicating organic intelligence. It is something else. Best case is useful.

 

Which particular form of intelligence would you prefer it replicates? Klingon?

 

(I'm pretty sure that was a set-up 😄)

 

If organic intelligence (that's us) can't define WTF intelligence is we have no business creating AI.

[AndyID]

11 minutes ago, monkeysarefun said:

But I made almost the cost  price from  selling 3D printed N gauge cars at The Great train Show the weekend before last so it is kind of free if you think about it the right way.....

 

You might have made even more if you were offering printed N gauge track and points/turnouts/switches.

[monkeysarefun]

14 minutes ago, AndyID said:

 

You might have made even more if you were offering printed N gauge track and points/turnouts/switches.

I cant do everything!

[iL Dottore]

7 hours ago, Ozexpatriate said:

I'm surprised that the Captain who doubtless has a number of architects specializing in supervillain lair design on speed-dial should ask such questions.

• who cleans the acres of glass windows? - hirelings / minions (naturally)
• how do they maintain their modesty with no curtains? - electronic roller blackout blinds, or better, switchable LCD polymer films*

*Polymer dispersed liquid crystal

Points noted, Oz. But CC points out…

1. Minions are to be used for minioning, not as window cleaners. You’re not going to get far in your plans for world domination if your minions are toting windolene and squeegees instead of the latest in sophisticated fire power.
2. With/without roller blackout blinds or switchable LCD polymer films, you’re not going to have many secrets in your secret supervillain lair with acres of windows..

[iL Dottore]

11 hours ago, AndyID said:

 

Strictly speaking that wouldn't be euthanasia. Its purpose and usual definition is to end suffering. 

Yes, but in this case, Andy, the suffering that’s being ended is ours, not theirs…

[iL Dottore]

9 hours ago, tigerburnie said:

When were you last in the UK? you can't smoke inside even in a private club

Just two points:

1. Who said it was in the UK?
2. There are private clubs and there are private clubs….

Otherwise, a good observation my feline friend.

[AndyID]

46 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

Yes, but in this case, Andy, the suffering that’s being ended is ours, not theirs…

 

Then call it what it is. In the case of dogs, much as I hate the whole idea, the euphemism is "being put down".

 

Torri (for Torridon) our beloved Cairn Terrier rescue, had to be euthanized to end his suffering. It had nothing to do with our suffering.

 

 

Hope you get my point.

 

Andy

 

 

[Gwiwer]

8 hours ago, monkeysarefun said:

they spend their lives slathered in insect repellant. 

Three smells associated with Australia:-

 

Bush-fire smoke

BBQ

Aerogard

 

The latter being insect repellant for those playing at home. 

[Ozexpatriate]

3 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

... smells associated with Australia:-

 

Aerogard

'aveagoodweekend

 

I had a strange moment in the middle of Maui - not the touristy bits but the centre of the island. There was something about the smell of the dirt - rain on volcanic soil and the flora. It suddenly made me feel very homesick.