Early Risers.

[Barry O]

Ey up!

 

Slept well. Lots of odd bits and bats to do here so will have a very busy day ahead.

Temperature has rocketed to 8°C.. Great!

 

Life revolves around one thing.. money..dosh, lucre. The rest is just a supporting role delivering said money to a number of people.

 

Time to mash the tea. TTFN

Baz

[jjb1970]

I just returned back from two weeks in London which was nice. Despite living away from Britain I still love to go home and visit and find much more to like than dislike. Two weeks of IMO made for a long two weeks but it was nice to have a weekend in London and the evenings were free. I enjoy eating in London, it's still popular to deride British food but I find standards of restaurants are now competitive with any of the neighbours and there is a variety in London which is unusual. Although you can see signs of the times as you move out from the centre I have to say that central London was heaving and gave no sign of hard times or a shortage of money. Going to see/hear Yuja Wang at the Royal Festival Hall with the Philharmonia was something special, it's another part of London which is easy to take for granted but there are few cities that match London for live music. Ditto museums. The main criticism I have, which hasn't changed in the slightest, is the gleeful miserabilism of the media and their obsession with negativity. Britain is far from perfect, and there is plenty we can criticise but it is much further from the deity forsaken hell hole anyone watching the news or reading the papers might believe. I bought a Private Eye at LHR to read on the flight and was reminded why I stopped buying it years ago. That said, it is nice to be back 'home' and the heat is a nice change from the freezing weather of London. Changi was the usual model of efficiency, I pretty much walked from the flight to the taxi stand with immigration being a walk through the auto-gates with one person ahead of me in a queue. 

[TheQ]

Mooring Awl,

Pink pills 3 hours sleep, strepcil, 2 hours sleep, pink pills, 2 hours sleep.. strepcil

 

Ben the I'm in no hurry Collie didn't get me up for work, he wasn't that ready to go out, when I was..

Everything was dripping wet out there, it seemed to have rained most of the night, there's certainly no frost and ice out there now. Ben took a toy with him, but i had difficulty finding the ball in the dark even at my feet. So he wasn't impressed when I couldn't kick it for him to chase.

 

Dark, breezy, dripping wet, but not cold...

 

I'm lying on a 20 year old sofa, watching a 16 year old TV, upstairs, there is a computer that has parts in it from 30 years ago through to about 10 years ago. It's perfectly capable of running almost any programme I want, but I'm not sure for how much longer. It really is new motherboard time as that is over 15 years old.

 

At the place of my former work, they guarantee support for their products for ten years after the last date of production . Only once to my knowledge has this not happened, and that was when a major component supplied to  us them suddenly went out out of production. A replacement had to be hurriedly designed, and if that component failed in their old equipment, so being  unrepairable, they were offered a very discounted new designed equipment replacement .

 

Remembering my travel to work, the old site of the former RAF Horsham St Faith station headquarters had been cleared, leaving just a mound of crushed bricks. These have been rearranged into an embankment around the site, with concrete 2ft by 3 ft by 2 ft blocks spaced on top.

I wonder if the site has applied to the King for licence to crenulate ?

 

 

Plans for today..

work

Start removing land rover dashboard, so I can repair the wiper mechanism.

I've finally got round to ordering a, temperature controlled plant heater mat, this will go into the small special paint and glue cupboard, to keep them warm. At 10W it will be a lot cheaper to run than keeping the entire workshop at 5C or above.

So this needs to be installed and wired up.

 

Hmm I'm getting hungry, normally I'd be getting breakfast ready 2 hours ago..

Time to get  a making...

 

 

[polybear]

6 hours ago, AndyID said:

 

Unfortunately the only way these companies can stay alive is by flogging new products. I managed electronic product development with the associated software development and support throughout my career and I can assure you the only way it's possible to achieve what you would like to see is with an enormous increase in initial product cost and/or ongoing support cost to the user.

 

It's not impossible, it's just bluddy expensive and I'm pretty sure the consumers would not stand for it if they had any choice.

 

I think there will always be enough people that just HAVE TO HAVE the very latest new products to support manufacturers without the need (or excuse) for huge price increases; sure it may well be that some fall by the wayside in the process, but there seems to be so many nowadays I don't see that as a downside.  As a minimum, products should be able to be used for the duration of their own natural lifetimes (without deliberately building in hardware or software "timebombs" designed to make a consumer have to buy a new model - that practice should be made illegal, with VERY big penalties) albeit they may only be able to run in "legacy" mode without being able to run the latest software etc. 

 

3 hours ago, AndyID said:

The point is it's unbelievably expensive to keep improving the technology and whether they like it or not customers will have to pay for it one way or another if they want better/faster/smaller/cheaper kit.

 

 

There seems definitely is a practice of "improving" for the sake of it.  Just how many of us use a mobile phone/laptop etc. even a fraction of it's full potential - so why on earth buy a new one if it still does everything we need?

 

We live in a society now where so much technology goes into landfill simply because the very bit inside that you can neither see nor touch (namely the software) has been decreed outdated and so won't play anymore.  That's just nuts.

 

Regarding the term "lifetime", a friend's Tom Tom Sat Nav stopped working one day - it was obvious that it was deliberate (I forget the details now - maybe a message on the screen following an attempted map update?), despite being sold with "free lifetime map updates" it seems that good 'ol Tom Tom decided what "Lifetime" actually meant, rather than the actual hardware continuing to function.  He complained - and after a bit of fuss the best he got was a bit of a discount off a new Tom Tom.  I would've taken the to the Small Claims Court.

 

22 minutes ago, TheQ said:

At the place of my former work, they guarantee support for their products for ten years after the last date of production . Only once to my knowledge has this not happened, and that was when a major component supplied to  us them suddenly went out out of production. A replacement had to be hurriedly designed, and if that component failed in their old equipment, so being  unrepairable, they were offered a very discounted new designed equipment replacement .

 

 

I recall the Great Empire having to do redesign work even during development of a new product (which may take 5 years or more) and the end user hadn't even got their hands on it; how on earth in-service support for the life of new products (often in the region of maybe 15 years, though re-lifing is common) will be managed without redesign (often costly and time-consuming) or keeping huge stocks of certain spares (expensive, and may well degrade in storage).

The system a certain Bear worked on went into service in the early 80's and was (only just) still in service when Bear banged out in 2020.  I suspect achieving that sort of lifespan nowadays would be nigh-on impossible without regular - and expensive redesigns.

 

Right, Bear here.....

Buddy ex. next door due in about an hour, so I'd better get my little furry ar5e in gear.  After that it's MIUABGAD.  Snow is all gone, which is handy.

Not much of a kickball fan, but I did think that the wrong team won yesterday.  Never thought I'd hear myself saying that one.....

Bear gone.

[AndyID]

1 minute ago, polybear said:

We live in a society now where so much technology goes into landfill simply because the very bit inside that you can neither see nor touch (namely the software) has been decreed outdated and so won't play anymore.  That's just nuts.

 

How much software development have you defined/written/tested/verified. The (bear) trap you are falling into is "it's just software".

[New Haven Neil]

Morning, from a rock that is reeling under a 11.9c degree heatwave.  Wet and windy of course to ruin my enjoyment of it!

 

Big news today is collection of a new vacuum cleaner, from the Bosch house of manufacture.  Anything will be more reliable than the Dyson that is about to go to the tip recycling centre.  Retired life eh, when a new vacuum cleaner is news.  I suppose the warmer air will make the garage habitable, so I may do some work on the new Peckett black thing on wheels.

 

NHN, on a 4 year old laptop, with a 5 year old phone, and unfortunately a getting on for 64 year old brain that definitely shows signs of software slowing.

[AndyID]

7 minutes ago, New Haven Neil said:

...... for 64 year old brain that definitely shows signs of software slowing.

 

Yeah? Well just wait a few more years laddie 😀

 

I now have to run through a check-list before I go skiing. I almost forgot my ski-boots yesterday and I did manage to forget my phone.

[Erichill16]

Morning All from my new iphone whatever. Another hand me down as my last one wont update to the latest operating system. ‘They’ do make it really easy to transfer ones ‘stuff’ from one old obsolete phone to a new shiny all dancing new one. Not surprising I suppose.

Anyway phone call to dentist.
Robert

 

[AndyID]

46 minutes ago, AndyID said:

 

How much software development have you defined/written/tested/verified. The (bear) trap you are falling into is "it's just software".

 

Here's a pic of our test lab. Most of it was required to test firmware/software. The hardware testing was usually reasonably straightforward except when it became an extremely serious burglar.

 

[iL Dottore]

38 minutes ago, New Haven Neil said:

... getting on for 64 year old brain that definitely shows signs of software slowing.

I have it on good authority - although I have never actually done the upgrade myself - that moving from Wife v1.0 to Girlfriend v2.0 does wonders for improving the performance of "legacy" hardware.

 

I also understand, although again without direct experience, that adding the Mistress v1.5 DLC patch* to Wife v1.0 not only improves performance of your "legacy" hardware but when properly installed results in a synergistic effect of improving both the functionality and reliability of Wife v1.0 and Mistress v1.5 DLC patch. However, not everyone has the expertise and ability to successfully install this patch and improper installation will result in significant running problems of both Wife 1.0 and Mistress v1.5 DLC patch. Sometimes resulting in complete system failure and damage to the "legacy" hardware.

 

* The Mistress v1.5 DLC patch is only one of a number of downloadable upgrades available for "legacy" hardware - others include Austin Allegro to Lamborghini version ifyouhavetoaskyoucantaffordit, OO to O version bigtrains and the most popular of all the MrNotComplain to MrGrumpy v7.0 happiness upgrade.

Edited December 19, 2022 by iL Dottore
Typo

[PhilJ W]

Morning all from Estuary-Land. Got up a bit earlier to put the car on the drive and as I did so I noticed that one of the headlamps was out. That means more tokens spent that I would rather go on things that run on parallel strips of metal. At least the ice has gone but its now blowing a hooly out there.

5 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

and the most popular of all the MrNotComplain to MrGrumpy v7.0 happiness upgrade.

I've got one of the earlier versions it it seems to work OK though I am contemplating the all singing and dancing version complete with bells and whistles called 'Victor Meldrew'. If anyone has the new version please let me know if its any good.

[PhilJ W]

Nearly forgot.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-64018216

[polybear]

18 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

I have it on good authority - although I have never actually done the upgrade myself - that moving from Wife v1.0 to Girlfriend v2.0 does wonders for improving the performance of "legacy" hardware.

 

I also understand, although again without direct experience, that adding the Mistress v1.5 DLC patch* to Wife v1.0 not only improves performance of your "legacy" hardware but when properly installed results in a synergistic effect of improving both the functionality and reliability of Wife v1.0 and Mistress v1.5 DLC patch. However, not everyone has the expertise and ability to successfully install this patch and improper installation will result in significant running problems of both Wife 1.0 and Mistress v1.5 DLC patch. Sometimes resulting in complete system failure and damage to the "legacy" hardware.

 

* The Mistress v1.5 DLC patch is only one of a number of downloadable upgrades available for "legacy" hardware - others include Austin Allegro to Lamborghini version ifyouhavetoaskyoucantaffordit, OO to O version bigtrains and the most popular of all the MrNotComplain to MrGrumpy v7.0 happiness upgrade.

 

The downside is that, in the vast majority of cases, trying to run Wife v1.0 and Mistress v1.5 simultaneously invokes an extremely high risk of incompatibility and subsequent clash, often requiring (not always voluntarily) having to uninstall Wife v1.0 - which is extremely expensive indeed, and may also be physically painful, sometimes in the extreme.  Mistress v1.5 is then converted to Girlfriend v2.0, which, after some indeterminate time (which may often be short) reveal previously unknown flaws that makes the user realise than Wife v1.0 wasn't quite so bad after all.  Uninstalling Girlfriend v2.0 may not be straightforward and may lead to further expense;  there is also a high risk of ongoing fees despite uninstallation of one of both parties.

[Barry O]

As it happens my team developed software for various training systems for the British Army. They were held up as an exemplar by the TickIt assessors. No  patches allowed.. proper control of the development..just for once MoD didn't query the cost of doing this. That team are now in very senior positions in companies across the world. 

 

Then there was Sap.. badly controlled.. patches galore, expensive, less than workable.. @Ian Abelmay comment on that.

 

Baz

[AndyID]

2 minutes ago, Barry O said:

As it happens my team developed software for various training systems for the British Army. They were held up as an exemplar by the TickIt assessors. No  patches allowed.. proper control of the development..just for once MoD didn't query the cost of doing this. That team are now in very senior positions in companies across the world. 

 

Then there was Sap.. badly controlled.. patches galore, expensive, less than workable.. @Ian Abelmay comment on that.

 

Baz

 

It's just economics. Software/Firmware is really easy to change. Proving it woks properly is an entirely different matter.

[AndyID]

10 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

The downside is that, in the vast majority of cases, trying to run Wife v1.0 and Mistress v1.5 simultaneously invokes an extremely high risk of incompatibility and subsequent clash, often requiring (not always voluntarily) having to uninstall Wife v1.0 - which is extremely expensive indeed, and may also be physically painful, sometimes in the extreme.  Mistress v1.5 is then converted to Girlfriend v2.0, which, after some indeterminate time (which may often be short) reveal previously unknown flaws that makes the user realise than Wife v1.0 wasn't quite so bad after all.  Uninstalling Girlfriend v2.0 may not be straightforward and may lead to further expense;  there is also a high risk of ongoing fees despite uninstallation of one of both parties.

 

Only if you are not a skier.

 

(Oops. Kindly delete that from the record PDQ.)

[BSW01]

Good morning everyone 

 

The rain has stopped and the frost is gone! The temperature is currently 12C, that a whole 20 degrees warmer than it was on Thursday, when the car thermometer read -8C! I shall shortly set off to complete the Sainsbury’s Grand Prix and hand in my prescription, today I’m trying a different pharmacy as our previous choice would take over a week to complete the order. 

 

Back later. 

 

Brian

[polybear]

1 hour ago, AndyID said:

 

How much software development have you defined/written/tested/verified. The (bear) trap you are falling into is "it's just software".

 

Software writing?  Diddly squat.  I have found errors that a s/w related though, requiring a re-write.

I do have an idea how long electronics last though - quite often many decades.  Now whilst not the best example (as they often/usually keep working) here's an example regarding Mobile Phones and Security Updates:

 

https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/mobile-phones/article/mobile-phone-security-is-it-safe-to-use-an-old-phone-a6uXf1w6PvEN

 

Picking a phone from the list:  Apple iphone 8 (released 2017; cost £699/£799) shows that security updates will cease in September next year (6 years).  So how long before using it becomes, potentially, a significant risk from a security viewpoint?  Who knows - certainly a huge majority of those using it I suspect.  Mobile Banking, anyone?

Ok, so to continue providing security updates for older phones will cost the Manufacturer money.  Well I reckon Apple can afford to do so:

 

Apple annual gross profit for 2022 was $170.782B, a 11.74% increase from 2021.

Apple annual gross profit for 2021 was $152.836B, a 45.62% increase from 2020.

Apple annual gross profit for 2020 was $104.956B, a 6.67% increase from 2019.

(The above from the 'net).

 

The latest iphone (14) starts at £1100 from their store (no doubt cheaper elsewhere) and the Which? article says they typically provide support for 5-6years (presumably from the release date) after which it potentially starts to become increasingly unsafe to use from a security viewpoint.  Is that a good deal?

[AndyID]

4 minutes ago, polybear said:

Software writing?  Diddly squat. 

 

Precisely. That's the problem. It's a piece of cake to change the code.

 

Any change to the firmware/software requires an extensive re-validation cycle and that is when it becomes REALLY expensive.

[iL Dottore]

30 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

The downside is that, in the vast majority of cases, trying to run Wife v1.0 and Mistress v1.5 simultaneously invokes an extremely high risk of incompatibility and subsequent clash, often requiring (not always voluntarily) having to uninstall Wife v1.0 - which is extremely expensive indeed, and may also be physically painful, sometimes in the extreme.  Mistress v1.5 is then converted to Girlfriend v2.0, which, after some indeterminate time (which may often be short) reveal previously unknown flaws that makes the user realise than Wife v1.0 wasn't quite so bad after all.  Uninstalling Girlfriend v2.0 may not be straightforward and may lead to further expense;  there is also a high risk of ongoing fees despite uninstallation of one of both parties.

Which is why I said “However, not everyone has the expertise and ability to successfully install this patch and improper installation will result in significant running problems of both Wife 1.0 and Mistress v1.5 DLC patch”

 

I do know of individuals who have successfully installed the Mistress v1.5 DLC patch (one has even been able to install both Mistress v1.5 DLC AND Mistress v2.0 DLC patches to Wife v1.0 and has all three working flawlessly in synergy)

 

Of course, what they don’t tell you is that in order to install the above you must have one or more of the following:

• Open Marriage v MFF
• Loadsamoney v 10 million
• Famous (or) powerful v VIP (they are interchangeable)

For some reason it’s easier to install such upgrades on French, Italian and Belgian “legacy” hardware than on British, German or Swiss “legacy” hardware…

[New Haven Neil]

Hmm, Wife V1.0 is the sole wage earner now - so there's an issue from the start!  As for the legacy hardware, just don't go there.....😁  Wife V1.0 has been reliable over 38 years, so is rather better constructed than an iwhatever.  The software package sees to improve with age, unlike the male version that appears to have run low on memory control, it can take some time to retrieve information, its always there, just buried under crepe from previous employments.

Edited December 19, 2022 by New Haven Neil

[jjb1970]

48 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

Software writing?  Diddly squat.  I have found errors that a s/w related though, requiring a re-write.

I do have an idea how long electronics last though - quite often many decades.  Now whilst not the best example (as they often/usually keep working) here's an example regarding Mobile Phones and Security Updates:

 

https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/mobile-phones/article/mobile-phone-security-is-it-safe-to-use-an-old-phone-a6uXf1w6PvEN

 

Picking a phone from the list:  Apple iphone 8 (released 2017; cost £699/£799) shows that security updates will cease in September next year (6 years).  So how long before using it becomes, potentially, a significant risk from a security viewpoint?  Who knows - certainly a huge majority of those using it I suspect.  Mobile Banking, anyone?

Ok, so to continue providing security updates for older phones will cost the Manufacturer money.  Well I reckon Apple can afford to do so:

 

Apple annual gross profit for 2022 was $170.782B, a 11.74% increase from 2021.

Apple annual gross profit for 2021 was $152.836B, a 45.62% increase from 2020.

Apple annual gross profit for 2020 was $104.956B, a 6.67% increase from 2019.

(The above from the 'net).

 

The latest iphone (14) starts at £1100 from their store (no doubt cheaper elsewhere) and the Which? article says they typically provide support for 5-6years (presumably from the release date) after which it potentially starts to become increasingly unsafe to use from a security viewpoint.  Is that a good deal?

 

I can't help admiring Apple's marketing, they've managed to retain that cachet of being the alternative choice, for people who think differently, for people who want to stick it to big corp Microsoft etc despite the fact they're a huge mega corporation.

[jjb1970]

1 hour ago, AndyID said:

 

It's just economics. Software/Firmware is really easy to change. Proving it woks properly is an entirely different matter.

 

I used to do design approval for gas turbine engines, my bit was easy as I did the engine itself, my colleagues who had to sign off on the software controlled safety systems had an enormous job. RR and GE like to promote a 'trust us, we know what we're doing' approach but unfortunately for them there are regulatory requirements and rules on verification and software conformity assessment against rules and regulations. And it is more difficult through life, as service engineers like to connect up their laptops and download patches and updates meaning the software is no longer as approved. There is a similar issue for large diesel engines but it is slightly less acute as those engines still tend to fit old fashioned physical safety devices too as they're cheap and work which means the software people can argue that in extremis there are still separate overspeed shutdowns etc.

[Erichill16]

Extraction booked for 2:30 (toof hurty!) 

Prophylactic analgesia on standby. 

[BoD]

1 hour ago, AndyID said:

Precisely. That's the problem. It's a piece of cake to change the code.

 

Any change to the firmware/software requires an extensive re-validation cycle and that is when it becomes REALLY expensive.

 

Over here the government has made payments to households to help cover the increase in the cost of fuel.  Payments to households are made each month. My energy company, rather than just reducing the bill by this amount (it’s the same amount for everyone) started making these payments into my bank account.  I was wondering why they bothered doing it this way but then I guess it would be much easier and with fewer chances of things going wrong for them to write and test a whole new piece of code rather than risk altering and then testing the code of their existing proven main billing system.

Edited December 19, 2022 by BoD