Early Risers.

[45156]

 

 

This morning the road was wet and clear, the floods have gone from the NDR road works. After work it's a trip Via Screwfix & BQ to get various bits for the railway shed extension for the next weekends work, I'll get home to an empty house as SWMBO will be going out early to her weaving group, we'll miss each other by just a few minutes.

I predict a curry waiting in THE DOG, It's an old joke that when the husband is late home, the dinner is in the dog. So some years ago I put a sticker on the microwave saying THE DOG.... 

When I used to work late and was travelling the UK from a base in Surrey, it was difficult to predict arrival times at home, so I too often got home to find a post it note or the like on the worktop with the single word "dinner" and an arrow pointing to the ding (our name for the microwave).  If I was running so late that I decided to eat on the road (motorway food or Little Chef usually) then dinner went from the ding to the dog.

[PhilJ W]

Morning all from Estuary-Land. A bit grey and overcast this morning but according to Carol it should remain dry. Happy birthday John and many more of 'em. Not a lot to do today apart from a bit of shopping, and emptying the trailer which I forgot to do yesterday until it was getting dark. Bye for now, be back later.

[The Stationmaster]

Morning all and happy birthday to John.

 

Well the lunatics certainly seem to be in charge of the ASLE&F and RMT asylums with their mouthpieces talking the biggest load of twaddle I have ever heard although, hardly surprising of course, a similar amount of amateurish nonsense is coming from the Southern 'management' mouthpiece who muttered away on the BBC News yesterday evening while the Govt representatives - such as they are - talk total nonsense.  All of this is down to one single halfwit Viennese commuter who attends ('works' would I suspect be an exaggeration) at DafT and makes stupid public speeches about 'taking on the unions' - that man should have been sacked by now.

 

DOO(P) train operation is a simple matter of operational safety decision - either a route and trains fit the criteria or they do not; it really is that simple.  It is not a matter for decision by amateurs such as those at DafT or, even more amateur, politicians and trade union leaders - it is a matter for experienced railway operators who know and understand what they are doing (assuming Southern actually have some).  I am utterly hacked off by the total nonsense talked by both sides in this whole business - DOO(P) operation has been going on Britain's railways for over 30 years and it has never resulted in any sort of operational safety incident or exacerbated one arising from other reasons.  

 

But on parts of the former Southern Region it has always been difficult to get past certain elements of the staff - and the unions are playing on that.  But the daft thing is that on Southern Rail (where it was going to be introduced) it is now a fact and nobody has been injured as a consequence.  The Govt could solve part of this dispute in no more than a couple of statements and a single sacking (of the Viennese commuter), then one might hope that professional railway folk (assuming such actually exists among GoVia's ranks?) should try to sort out the squabbling children.

 

Enjoy your day folks and may the journeys of those affected by the stupid behaviour of these various halfwits at least get them to where they wish to go.

[45156]

Morning All

 

Happy Birthday John, and again commiserations John K.

 

One does not own a companion animal, but has it for its lifetime, however long or short that may be, and when the time comes, then it is our duty to continue to love that companion animal by ensuring as much comfort as possible, and also if the end has to be hastened, then it is also part of that love, to do so regardless of our own feelings.  That was told to me by a vet friend when we had to say goodbye to our very aged Cocker Spaniel who was holding on and on.  The advice has served us well as we have now said goodbye to another three Spaniels.  The hole that you have when you lose an companion animal seems endlessly deep, but in time, the sadness is replaced by the many happy memories and the amusing moments which you have shared.

 

Generic greetings are, as ever, on offer to all who are ailing, celebrating, or whatever,

 

After the taxi run, I was due to take the car to have a number of jobs carried out, one being that the radio is still not right, the others were routine, but necessary, being the anti corrosion check and also to recheck the air conditioning.  I had a call this morning to say that as they are two mechanics short due to illness, and only one of these jobs could be done today, so I have decided to get the radio done and to take a rain check on the others.  I won't even get the free car wash today as the guy who does them is also off sick!!!

 

Back later, as car is now due on for 11 instead of 9.

 

Regards to All

Stewart

[lightengine]

Barnham depot picket line today.

[TheQ]

But of course it's the tax payer who pays the government, so it is the majority of your railway users who pay your wages directly or indirectly..

[lightengine]

Post Office to strike. Personally I hope they shut. Our main office in the town have a preferential treatment window for buying foreign currencies and a preferential treatment window for parcel collectots. If you want a stamp you join the milling throngs waiting in a winding queue. Any window serving these poor people is then subjected to questioning by the gestapo like staff about whether they need insurance, broadband, car tax, this, that the other and everything is explained in finely practised detail.

NO, POST OFFICE! I just want to buy a stamp for this letter and I need to do a plethora of other things that could be done instead of you telling me about your wonderful broadband.

 

Rant over.

[BSW01]

Good morning everyone

 

Given that it is now nearly 10:30 it is still quite dark here. It rained most of the night but at least it's not raining now, but that could change any minute. Wait a minute, it just has!

 

A day of pottering in the cellar today.

 

Happy birthday John

 

Back later

Edited December 13, 2016 by BSW01

[jonny777]

Morning all and happy birthday to John.

 

Well the lunatics certainly seem to be in charge of the ASLE&F and RMT asylums with their mouthpieces talking the biggest load of twaddle I have ever heard although, hardly surprising of course, a similar amount of amateurish nonsense is coming from the Southern 'management' mouthpiece who muttered away on the BBC News yesterday evening while the Govt representatives - such as they are - talk total nonsense.  All of this is down to one single halfwit Viennese commuter who attends ('works' would I suspect be an exaggeration) at DafT and makes stupid public speeches about 'taking on the unions' - that man should have been sacked by now.

 

DOO(P) train operation is a simple matter of operational safety decision - either a route and trains fit the criteria or they do not; it really is that simple.  It is not a matter for decision by amateurs such as those at DafT or, even more amateur, politicians and trade union leaders - it is a matter for experienced railway operators who know and understand what they are doing (assuming Southern actually have some).  I am utterly hacked off by the total nonsense talked by both sides in this whole business - DOO(P) operation has been going on Britain's railways for over 30 years and it has never resulted in any sort of operational safety incident or exacerbated one arising from other reasons.  

 

But on parts of the former Southern Region it has always been difficult to get past certain elements of the staff - and the unions are playing on that.  But the daft thing is that on Southern Rail (where it was going to be introduced) it is now a fact and nobody has been injured as a consequence.  The Govt could solve part of this dispute in no more than a couple of statements and a single sacking (of the Viennese commuter), then one might hope that professional railway folk (assuming such actually exists among GoVia's ranks?) should try to sort out the squabbling children.

 

Enjoy your day folks and may the journeys of those affected by the stupid behaviour of these various halfwits at least get them to where they wish to go.

 

 

I don't agree with this, however experienced and efficient the reasoning may be.

 

When I travel by train I want the driver to be responsible for driving - period.

 

I do not want him to be responsible for opening and closing doors, checking tickets, comforting elderly or disabled passengers, making the tea; or whatever secondary jobs they can load on the driver in the name of "modern 21st century efficiency". Yes, the trains may be able to drive themselves, and park themselves in sidings at the end of the day without any human intervention.

 

However, I am a fare paying passenger and one of the millions who pay the wages of the staff, and therefore I believe that I have a right to demand certain reassuring aspects for my journey. The first one being that there is a driver in the cab whose *sole* responsibility it is for the driving of the train.

 

If (heaven forbid) that the driver is rendered unconscious for whatever reason (some scrote lobbing a brick from an overbridge for instance) I do not want to be stuck on a train full of passenger close to hysteria with no member of staff and no way of knowing what has happened until some emergency procedure wheezes into action from about 50 miles away.

 

I would also like to see a guard on every train, whose responsibilities include the safety of passengers; whether on the train, on the platform, or venturing between the two. In a perfect world I would also wish to see a ticket inspector with statutory powers of arrest (or at least detainment) for anyone without a ticket or otherwise travelling illegally.

 

I believe that my views are not confined to myself, but are being drowned out by a wholly political battle between a "crush the unions" right wing government, and a "crush the government" left wing union.

 

 

 

Sorry, I'm ranting again - this seems to be an increasing feature of my ageing process.

[Barry O]

Been to our local sub post office. It was very busy particularly with people who are amazed that some of their post won't get to their loved ones overseas.

 

My old man used to drive doo trains - underground, in the dark at quite a high speed (for a simple man riding set. He didn't get paid a lot and saw the safety of his passengers as number 1.

 

Currently if a driver is unable to drive the guard won't be able to anyway (unless they are a trained driver and a member of the appropriate union). 

 

As it stands it would appear that we, as tax payers, are paying for Southern Rail, we, as tax payers, are paying out the compensation to the commuters involved. So Dutch_Master we do pay the wages - not directly but in a round about route. 

 

Hidden agendas abound.... and it appears that my ideas fro a "Super Peter Principle" ie being elevated to at least 3 levels above the level of competence is showing up what happens in Government, Private Industry and Unions....

 

Obviously Southern are also trying to cut costs - so how much do ASLEF drivers get paid? How much do the "Guards" get paid?

 

nuff said

 

Baz

[Horsetan]

Post Office to strike. Personally I hope they shut. Our main office in the town have a preferential treatment window for buying foreign currencies and a preferential treatment window for parcel collectots. If you want a stamp you join the milling throngs waiting in a winding queue. Any window serving these poor people is then subjected to questioning by the gestapo like staff about whether they need insurance, broadband, car tax, this, that the other and everything is explained in finely practised detail.

NO, POST OFFICE! I just want to buy a stamp for this letter and I need to do a plethora of other things that could be done instead of you telling me about your wonderful broadband.

 

Rant over.

 

Be careful what you wish for. Once the Post Office has withdrawn from any high street presence, will sub-post offfices / newsagents / convenience shops be able to cope? Or will you be sending your mail via Yodel, etc.?

[TheQ]

 

Obviously Southern are also trying to cut costs - so how much do ASLEF drivers get paid? How much do the "Guards" get paid?

 

nuff said

 

Baz

From what I can find on't net

Average a salary Underground driver £50,000 (excluding over time)

Average salary  railways £40,000 (can make £70,000 by doing a lot of over time) 

Average Guard £29,000

 

For any of the above, yes please, it's a lot more than I make after 40 years electronics with a  degree...

Edited December 13, 2016 by TheQ

[Oldddudders]

From what I can find on't net

Average a salary Underground driver £50,000 (excluding over time)

Average salary  railways £40,000 (can make £70,000 by doing a lot of over time) 

Average Guard £29,000

 

For any of the above, yes please, it's a lot more than I make after 40 years electronics with a  degree...

As said on previous occasions, drivers were the big winners from Rail Privatisation, because each TOC set up its own deal and recruited accordingly. With a high age profile among drivers, luring them from other TOCs was often a priority, and thus a market, complete with pricing, developed. Compare this with signallers, the drivers' trad rivals in status and wages, and they lost out heavily, all being TUPE'd to Railtrack on 1.4.94. No market, no offers, no big increases.

[Barry O]

From what I can find on't net

Average a salary Underground driver £50,000 (excluding over time)

Average salary  railways £40,000 (can make £70,000 by doing a lot of over time) 

Average Guard £29,000

 

For any of the above, yes please, it's a lot more than I make after 40 years electronics with a  degree...

might be why we in the UK are finding it hard to recruit teachers/engineers/ add as required. Does the figures include any extras (shifts) etc?

 

Baz

[Ian Abel]

Happy birthday John

 

 

Happy Tuesday to anyone needing a greeting.

 

No significant action in the dungeon yesterday, a very brief visit from one of the jailors with a quick change request, then solitary confinement again.

 

+3 and sunny with a high of 6 expected here, contrasting with home at -22 with an expected high of -13. Hmm, a little "brisk" one might say!

 

Home your Tuesday proceeds according to plans.

[TheQ]

might be why we in the UK are finding it hard to recruit teachers/engineers/ add as required. Does the figures include any extras (shifts) etc?

 

Baz

From what I can find that's basic salary.

[The Stationmaster]

might be why we in the UK are finding it hard to recruit teachers/engineers/ add as required. Does the figures include any extras (shifts) etc?

 

Baz

 

Most deals - apart from some made by childlike managers (some of whose names might come as a surprise) - converted Drivers onto a  flat salaried basis with no extras at all so Sunday enhancement (in some cases vanished) along with all the other enhanced rates and things like Mileage Payments.  In addition some TOCs introduced lodging turns with, again, no enhancement.  The big advantage for the Drivers was they got a steady income and it was the basis of their pension unlike the previous arrangement where the pension was set by their basic wage and overtime etc didn't count towards it.   Some companies (or rather the naive managers) made a  mess of it and did such daft things as making Sunday turns voluntary and relying on Rest Day Working to cover the spares they cut out before nipping off to find a job elsewhere - daft tricks like that area a the root of London Midland's troubles (although she who brought it in subsequently did rather well for herself - if she'd done in BR days she'd have been sacked or shoved in a quiet corner for the rest of her career).

 

As for the Guards many have. over the years, been their own worst enemies - as a former colleague said to me yesterday after his train changed crews at salisbury the relieving Guard installed himself in the back cab and didn't reappear until the train reached Exeter - exactly the sort of thing (apart from recruitment problems) which set BR on the DOO(P) route in the first place.  Similarly how in many places a Guard is considered to have a  better view that a Driver when it comes to closing the doors I simply don't know especially, again, when you consider that some of them are too idle to get out the van and walk across the platform to make sure everyone is aboard.  There's nowadays need on many types to makes sure that the doors are closed before locking them and trains have been running around for pver 20 years on busy mainlines with door controls that can only be operated by the Driver.

 

The argument about the Driver being disabled or trapped is a very thin one indeed and the number of instances where that has actually happened in, say, the past 30 years and some system other than the Guard has failed to draw attention to it is so small as to not even merit being called 'statistically insignificant'.  There also seems to be considerable confusion (I might almost say ignorance) over the role of a Guard on a passenger train - basically the grade has only very limited remaining operational duties in any case and on most types of train and there is - as far as I can see - no case where transferring such duties to the Driver would distract him/her from their existing role - that was one of the principal operational safety requirements born in mind when DOO(P) was first being assessed.

 

Taking care of passengers, in whatever way, has long been considered a secondary role by many Guards and that is a long way from where their role nowadays should be.  And you don't need to be trained and qualified as a Guard to 'look after' passengers (whatever that might mean).  Yesterday I witnessed on my journey to Exeter a trainee Guard learning the road and being well assisted and briefed by the train Guard.  The interesting question which often passed through my mind was to what extent, other than near stations, the train Guard had any idea of where we actually were at any time - but then he isn't required to have that knowledge anyway - as has been the case for many years.  So - apart from messages to passengers - what use could he actually have been in an operational emergency?

[Ohmisterporter]

Slight embarrassment in Boots this week. I was sent in to buy a tin of Peadiasure for our great grandson; it is a dietary supplement that he drinks when he will not eat anything. After looking around and not finding it I asked an assistant where the peedofile was.

 

 

 

Edit :- the spelling mistake is deliberate, as my computer's internal decency policeman did not like the correct spelling. Society will never beat this thing if we are unwilling to mention it. Just my opinion, others are available. 

 

Stay safe all.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Ohmisterporter

[Purley Oaks]

Very sorry to hear that Bridie has died, John.

 

Happy 65th to John TwoSugars!

 

And great to hear that TonyA is sort of up and about after the op.

 

There's a good interview here where Piers Morgan rips into Chris Grayling re Southern http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/piers-morgan-gives-chris-grayling-an-absolute-slapping-over-southern-rail-strikes_uk_584fac51e4b0b7ff851dc058?ncid=tweetlnkukhpmg00000001

 

Strikes me (pun intended) that because of the length of time of the problem on Southern, each side needs to resort to the history of the dispute when being interviewed - rather like Republicans and Unionists in the dark days of the Troubles, where each would need to reach back years to condemn or justify particular things. I do wonder if the government has a hand in this, because management would surely have found some solution by now; anyone know if it's the government that wants DOO?

 

I feel for those people whose employers are tearing into them for lateness.

 

Hope your day goes well - and for those trying to travel by train in Surrey and Sussex, hope your misery ends soon.

 

Mal

[Horsetan]

Slight embarrassment in Boots ....

 

Is that what the annual panto is called now?

[Legend]

My mother became aware of a new product for headaches . Instead of a tablet it was a bandage /patch applied over bridge of nose  or forehead. She went into Boots and asked for 4skin instead of 4head

 

Lost her this year. She's sadly missed

Edited December 13, 2016 by Legend

[The Stationmaster]

Very sorry to hear that Bridie has died, John.

 

Happy 65th to John TwoSugars!

 

And great to hear that TonyA is sort of up and about after the op.

 

There's a good interview here where Piers Morgan rips into Chris Grayling re Southern http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/piers-morgan-gives-chris-grayling-an-absolute-slapping-over-southern-rail-strikes_uk_584fac51e4b0b7ff851dc058?ncid=tweetlnkukhpmg00000001

 

Strikes me (pun intended) that because of the length of time of the problem on Southern, each side needs to resort to the history of the dispute when being interviewed - rather like Republicans and Unionists in the dark days of the Troubles, where each would need to reach back years to condemn or justify particular things. I do wonder if the government has a hand in this, because management would surely have found some solution by now; anyone know if it's the government that wants DOO?

 

I feel for those people whose employers are tearing into them for lateness.

 

Hope your day goes well - and for those trying to travel by train in Surrey and Sussex, hope your misery ends soon.

 

Mal

 

Mal back in the early part of this a Civil Servant by the name of Wilkinson who is the man in charge of the passenger franchising section at DafT made a  public speech at, I believe, Croydon where he was heavily critical of 'overpaid railway staff' and inefficient manning and said that they (i.e. the franchising organisation) were going to sort it and get some efficiency into the running of the railway and it didn't matter if it caused strikes or how long they lasted because things needed to change.  That immediately, and not surprisingly, rattled several union cages.

 

The next thing which happened is that it seems Wilkindson effectively instructed Southern through the franchise contract to introduce DOO(P) operation.  So Southern said they were going to introduce it - and appear to have made an absolute horlicks of trying to do so.  Now in reality our Viennese commuter, Mr Wilkinson (I wonder how much time he spends in the office every week?) has absolutely no power at all to make operational decisions and DOO(P) is an operational safety decision - it is necessary for those who actually understand such things (and I doubt if he does) to assess whether it can be introduced and then carry out consultation with staff.  But it looks like Southern simply did what they were told to do.

 

Introducing DOO(P) on any former SR lines has always been fraught with potential industrial disputes but in this case it doesn't seem to have been high level oil poured on troubled waters rather than petrol added to a potentially inflammable situation.

 

http://www.cityam.com/235287/union-aslef-hits-back-after-senior-department-for-transport-figure-peter-wilkinson-calls-striking-tube-drivers-muppets

Edited December 13, 2016 by The Stationmaster

[AndyID]

When I used to work late and was travelling the UK from a base in Surrey, it was difficult to predict arrival times at home, so I too often got home to find a post it note or the like on the worktop with the single word "dinner" and an arrow pointing to the ding (our name for the microwave). 

At least it didn't say

 

"Your dinner is in the dog."

[roundhouse]

I have got a seat on the last train out of LBG to East Croydon today. It's the 16.42 Thameslink and you guessed it, late. They can't blame congestion!
Might not make the connection with the Thameslink that goes via Redhill if it's even possible to get on but we shall see. At least. I will be closer to home but having to catch a bus.

 

UPDATE

 

That went well.

 

Perhaps one of the best journeys in a long time. Made the same platform connection which was also running late but just 4 minutes waiting on the platform and got a seat. Redhill is gridlocked with traffic much more than ususal so had to walk through the car park to where my other half was queued up trying to get into it.

 

Lets hope that it can be the same on other days subject to being allowed to leave early.

Edited December 13, 2016 by roundhouse

[45156]

Just having a quick catch up having done all the chores and taxi driving, and getting one of the car problems sorted (hopefully).

 

Reading about the usefulness of the train guard, I have seen many on the Southern whose only appearance was to hang out of the van door when the train was at the platform, not even stepping out to check doors, relying on the tip from the platform staff - ding ding and back to his seat.

 

However, the biscuit for non assistance was when I was travelling to Scotland on the occasion of my dad's funeral, on a day when about half the WCML services were CAPEd due to engineering, and the Glasgow was carrying passengers for Liverpool (connection starting at Crewe) and Manchester, where a stop was made at Victoria to set down.  Train was, to say the least, rammed, and several passengers, myself included, went down to the back to see whether the guard would allow us to travel in FIrst, which was almost empty, at least as far as Crewe when the Liverpool contingent were set down.  In the van was a sound asleep guard, who could not be roused at all, and every effort to wake him was futile.  He was still asleep at Crewe when his relief Glasgow guard came on, and the train was delayed until he could be wakened and an Inspector found to deal with him.