station cat Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Consultation? An email was sent out to all staff about 14 days ago. Aditi was told she had been identified by the criteria about a week ago and she was specifically told to attend a meeting to discuss her health related absence last Wednesday, postponed until today. This was where she was presented with the "offer" and all the documentation pertaining to her absences. This document claims this meeting is part of the consultation process, as is the requirement to reply within two days to comment about today's meeting. We have read the documentation carefully and something really irritating is that if her absence for tonsillitis had lasted one day longer it wouldn't have counted for this process as it wouldn't have been "short term". I find this particularly galling as I didn't think she was fit to return to work and offered to drive her in if she insisted on being silly but she just went. Staff who have had many months of absence are completely immune from this particular culling! We need a "this is totally insane what planet are these people on" button. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony_S Posted June 16, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 16, 2014 (edited) We need a "this is totally insane what planet are these people on" button. I'm sure the good people of RMweb ERs will excuse the "language" in part of the latest advice advice from Lagomera! Tony,It is utter bollocks and also very intimidating. Hopefully they'll put this all in writing and then Aditi can take them to an industrial tribunal where she will win damages. If this happened to a patient of mine I can assure you that an extremely strongly-worded letter would be winging its way towards the employers.... Edited June 16, 2014 by Tony_S 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Sidecar Racer Posted June 16, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 16, 2014 Staff who have had many months of absence are completely immune from this particular culling! When I worked for the local Police force sorry , constabulary , we were subject to the Bradford Factor of sickness and absence , for us it was a score of 86 points over the defined period , I cant remember what that was now , I got ' called in ' once for exceeding this and had to see HR to explain why I was off so much , most of my problems had been down to increased stress and depression caused by my Mum's death and the breakdown of a relationship , this caused small problems to take longer to recover from . Below is how the Bradford Factor is calculated , taken from Wikipedia , this is how our lot used it . The Bradford Factor is calculated as follows: where: B is the Bradford Factor score S is the total number of spells (instances) of absence of an individual over a set period D is the total number of days of absence of that individual over the same set period[2] The 'set period' is typically set as a rolling 52 week period. For example: 1 instance of absence with a duration of ten days (1 x 1 x 10) = 10 points 3 instances of absence; one of one and two of two days (3 x 3 x 5) = 45 points 3 instances of absence; one of one, one of three and one of six days (3 x 3 x 10) = 90 points 5 instances of absence; each of two days (5 x 5 x 10) = 250 points 10 instances of absence; each of one day (10 x 10 x 10) = 1000 points How about getting good legal advice , if it says they are out of order , take the offer , as you walk out the door say ' see you in court ' , and then sue them for a shed load of money . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
travelintrev Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Tony I cant add any more to the comments about appalling situation that Aditi finds herself in. But dont let the bar-stewards win! (I was told not only was I too old, but also that I knew too much!) ... when a few month later they asked if I would go back....I was rather brusque with them. By that time the HR manager had also gone! Gets back home this evening, tropical rainshower, temperature the other side of 30C - humidity 98% and NO power.. some one had forgotten to order fuel for the blocks genset ( not me though!) Now just finished a report on an installation "we know what we're doing" type customer.....can you send the commissioning engineer tomorrow? Told them they're nowhere near being ready. I'm not allowed to write "I told you so"!!!! Anyway another 1970 type photo from I-o-M. Try and have a good evening. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony_S Posted June 16, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 16, 2014 (edited) Aditi is aware of the Bradford factor but the vague looks from HR indicate that haven't heard of it and they won't discuss how they have allegedly taken any factor other than total number of days into account. She is still upstairs writing the killer rebuttal letter, she has used the word "forthwith" in her demands so that should show how serious she is. She contacted the national office of her union this evening and they returned her call her a few minutes ago and they do have representation in the college now, at the other site but that is no problem as Aditi is frequently there. Anyway Aditi still likes her job. She had to inspect the teaching at the college's hairdressing salon and the manager came for her feedback. She said the students had said "if that lady comes back to talk to us, we could do her some blonde highlights". I'm not sure what impression she made on the students! Edited June 16, 2014 by Tony_S 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium NGT6 1315 Posted June 16, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 16, 2014 In the meanwhile - after a nice g&t and a couple of glasses of red with a 4 course dinner - this was the sunset last Thursday, 12 June 'somewhere off the east coast' (and from the next morning the only coast, of England, which we saw was the south coast). IMGP8349cr.jpg Oh, how I wish to be there now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BoD Posted June 16, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 16, 2014 Blimey, such a lot going on. So; commiserations to all who are/have suffered various ailments and their consequences. take up darts Dr SC - it is bound to come in useful at some point. Thoroughly enjoying the different reports and photos of the different outings and excursions. Have a virtual pint on me Colin next time you are out and about. Pass on my support to Aditi too please Tony, speaking of which, I was under the impression that it was the post that became redundant and not the person (although the two are often totally inseparable). If the college hasn't identified surplus posts or posts which need to be cut back, then it seems to me that they are on very dodgy ground indeed. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony_S Posted June 16, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 16, 2014 Colin's excursion photos show one of the really interesting thing about the region, that is the size of the church buildings seems rather large compared to the current population. All to do with wool I believe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted June 16, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 16, 2014 indeed Tony, not only are they big but also numerous. There were reputedly over 365 churches and pubs just in Norwich at one time, enabling both drunks and the pious to enjoy a new venue every day of the year. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium New Haven Neil Posted June 16, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 16, 2014 I'm afraid i am too out of date to offer HR advice now, but the procedure the college has instituted seems unsafe to me. I wouldn't have been part of that when I was an HR adviser! Colin's walk is producing some super photos, the pub looked good too... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbishop Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Tony, I can add my support. I'm totally unsurprised by the bullying. You're getting good info from various sources. Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony_S Posted June 16, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 16, 2014 Tony, I can add my support. I'm totally unsurprised by the bullying. You're getting good info from various sources. Bill Thank you. Aditi is very grateful and so pleased that I chose model railways as a hobby and know such nice people. Earlier in the year I was quite keen to encourage her to retire but she decided that she didn't really feel ready to. Although I would love to have her at home with me I wouldn't want it to be as a result of the current situation. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Sorry but I had to just add a lot of “Agrees”, “Likes”, "Sympathies/Friendship” to Mike and Tony’s posts (or others writings about the situation thereof). I cannot add to what has already been said and don’t wish to clutter everything up. Colin’s photos continure to astound - I thought I knew East Anglia! Marvelous. Aye, if I come back it will be back to what still feels like home to me and England personified. Thanks, Pete. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyram Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Evening all, once again I pass my good wishes to Aditi and my sympathies about her problems too. Life in the bungalow continues to be a roller coaster. Sarah has headed back to her mum's again although she will be back tomorrow ahead of our welcome meeting at the new house. We can't wait! This is a sign that things are moving forward. We need the progress too. The damp has now spread to the lounge. I discovered this first thing this morning after a model railway accident. I decided, over breakfast, to run a train. I switched the layout on and my Hornby M7 promptly shot forward and plunged off the edge of the layout! It seems my daughter, unbeknown to me, had been "fiddling" with the controller and had set it to maximum speed. The M7 lost its front vacumn pipe, which I managed to find on the carpet and reattach. Sadly whilst searching I found the damp in the lounge. The carpet was damp and there is mould growing on the back of the CD cabinet! Shocking! At work I managed to get the "Sports Week" planned and then presented it to the staff at tonight's staff meeting. It seemed to be well received. Hopefully all will go well next week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony_S Posted June 16, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 16, 2014 (edited) Colin’s photos continure to astound - I thought I knew East Anglia! Marvelous. Aye, if I come back it will be back to what still feels like home to me and England personified. Thanks, Pete. I think East Anglia is really interesting. Even the allegedly boring bit I live in has some world class reed beds and mud but once you get a couple of miles north it gets fascinating .I don't know why some people mock East Anglia (or Essex as some people don't include it in East Anglia). I haven't really spent much time in Suffolk apart from driving through it to Norfolk but I will one day! Edited June 16, 2014 by Tony_S 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock67B Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Evening all, Nothing more I can add to the Aditi situation other than that I'm squarely behind her and Tony - such actions by HR are outrageous! Been enjoying the thread I mentioned this morning on the G&SWR, Andy has added a link to his 'Flick'r' site and to me it makes fascinating viewing. Just like Colin's pictures, once again the beauty of the countryside throughout the UK is the star! Clever timing in the planning Colin in that you just happen to be near a lovely watering hole at the right time - today's one looked lovely and I agree about the Lacons Legacy, and that from a cider man! Let's hope for progress on all the 'drama' fronts as the week progresses. Our 'Picasso' is going to have a valet (by a bunch of hard working Eastern Europeans!) at the local factory outlet site - two guesses where we'll be whilst it's being done? I'm having it serviced at my old garage on Thursday in preparation for our West Country trip next week and like to present it clean. Sadly I can no longer cope with such a simple chore. Good luck to the lads doing the server work overnight - hopefully we'll see the benefit tomorrow! Sleep well, Kind regards, Jock. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 As I understand it they can declare a post redundant, and they can dismiss an employee for excessive absences, but not mix the two up. In any case is there no mention of combining redundancy (whether voluntary or not) with an enhanced early retirement package? It is well worth looking at the Teacher's Pension Scheme to see if any added years could be bought with the redundancy money. Bottom line is that they are doing what the NHS did to my wife for years, piling on the pressure whilst the weaker ones fell. She stuck it out until her job was privatised and got 2 year's salary plus about 6 months "gardening leave". Ed 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony_S Posted June 17, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 17, 2014 As I understand it they can declare a post redundant, and they can dismiss an employee for excessive absences, but not mix the two up. In any case is there no mention of combining redundancy (whether voluntary or not) with an enhanced early retirement package? Thank you. Aditi's brother-in-law also mentioned something similar too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony_S Posted June 17, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 17, 2014 Morning all. Cloudy and breezy now but forecast to be quite sunny later today.No plans for today, beyond walking dog in park and then trying to create something interesting for dinner this evening.. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Morning All, It is a rather dull morning here, but not unduly cold. All this talk of redundancy and how employees are treated by some companies is really depressing. My father worked for the same company from the time he left school, to the time he retired. I've been made redundant three times What a strange world we now live in... Have a good day everyone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted June 17, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) As I understand it they can declare a post redundant, and they can dismiss an employee for excessive absences, but not mix the two up. In any case is there no mention of combining redundancy (whether voluntary or not) with an enhanced early retirement package? It is well worth looking at the Teacher's Pension Scheme to see if any added years could be bought with the redundancy money. Bottom line is that they are doing what the NHS did to my wife for years, piling on the pressure whilst the weaker ones fell. She stuck it out until her job was privatised and got 2 year's salary plus about 6 months "gardening leave". Ed There is a natural reluctance to perform a full scale application process for redundancies because of the strain it puts on individuals and the organisation, leading to paper sifting as an alternative.I am aware of more than one Local Authority that uses sickness as a criterion when assessing redundancies - especially when they have lots of people doing the same role, competing for a reduced number of jobs. It's very devisive and simplistic too. Keep all the healthy people who cant do the job and make excellent staff who just happen to have had a few days sickness redundant. Having said that, I agree with Ed that they need to be clear about whether they are dealing with Aditi as an individual with respect to her sickness record, or as part of the "80 redundancies." There appears to have been no formal entry into either process in Aditi's case. I'll bid you all a good morning and hopefully update you from the last leg of my walk later - Lenwade to Norwich Edited June 17, 2014 by colin penfold Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
travelintrev Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Good morning all, I too am enjoying Colins photos. As a youngster my brother & I were regularly dragged round Churches around the Northern "Home counties" as they were both keen church bell (change) ringers. There are some pretty amazing churches in rural England many built (IIRC) on the back of "wool" money. What ever life throws at you today, try to remember o find something to smile at, Trev. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted June 17, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 17, 2014 I agree about the Lacons Legacy, and that from a cider man! That makes a lot of sense Jock, as it is a nice pale colour and quite zesty, I can see how it would appeal to a cider fan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashcombe Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I admire Aditi's courage in the face of this ghastly situation. I expect some managers feel threatened by her strength of character, her obvious professionalism and her popularity with the students. We all hope that right will prevail. Presumably, if staff nos are reduced then workload will increase for those who remain. I do hope Aditi sees a fair outcome but doesn't jeopardise her health before retirement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium NGT6 1315 Posted June 17, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) Morning all. It's one of those days... Edited June 17, 2014 by 1216 025 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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