Will it go extinct ?

[adb968008]

A thought for the night..

 

Triang made hundreds of thousands of Jinties back in the 1960’s and 1970’s.

 

over the last 2 decades these have been easy fodder to buy cheap and give a source of a cheap X04 motor for a kit.

 

When I look today theres 200 sold last quarter on ebay.. a lot.. but on par 800 per year is not a lot considering how many hundreds of thousands were made.

Over the decades countless thousands will have been lost to landfill, cannabalism, destruction etc.

 

But what about other less produced models… Jouef / Playcraft class 21, Lima HO class 33… very unsexy models today… a single handful appear each quarter.. perhaps a dozen a year.… Ive never seen a “mint condition boxed” Playcraft class 21 ever … does that even exist any more ? Has it gone extinct in “New” condition or does a collector somewhere cherish one ?

 

Any models people can think of that you just don't see any more, but no one really misses ?

 

Will some of these early days models eventually go extinct, and will anyone notice ?

Will there be a hunt to find one leftover some day ?

 

 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 20:02 by adb968008

[Rich Uncle Skeleton]

Ibertren Cuckoos are only getting harder to find. 

[Andy Hayter]

3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

 

 

But what about other less produced models… Jouef / Playcraft class 21, Lima HO class 33… very unsexy models today… a single handful appear each quarter.. perhaps a dozen a year.… Ive never seen a “mint condition boxed” Playcraft class 21 ever … does that even exist any more ? Has it gone extinct in “New” condition or does a collector somewhere cherish one ?

 

Any models people can think of that you just don't see any more, but no one really misses ?

 

Will some of these early days models eventually go extinct, and will anyone notice ?

Will there be a hunt to find one leftover some day ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

But could it be that the reason you don't see some of these models anymore is 

1.  What are left are so care worn they are only fit for car boot sales, where neither seller nor buyer have any idea that they might be scarce.  Does it work being the key question.

2.  The collectors know what they have and are not putting them out for sale.  The rarer they become, the higher the value.

[jjb1970]

A couple of years ago I saw a Ford Orion in a car park in Milton Keynes, it made my day as I couldn't remember the last time I saw one.

 

Most things come and go. Some will become collectible and highly sought after, most won't and will just fade away and be forgotten. Though, it's probable that someone somewhere will collect just about anything we might name.

 

I collect HO brass locomotives,  some of which were produced in single figures and even the ones produced in volume being hundreds to low thousands over several runs. Despite that numbers don't alter much as they were bought by collectors or a small subset of model enthusiasts. The reason a model was made as a run of 9 units (for example) is that there were only 9 people wanting it and willing (or able) to pay. As a consequence of being such a small microniche that segment generally avoided and avoids the worst excesses of collectordom. Even really obscure models appear if you are patient and it's quite unusual for people to expect silly prices (though also unusual for them to be given away).

 

The main collector markets seem to go for more widely available things and it is a notoriously fickle 'boom and bust' scene. Things are inflated to frankly ludicrous prices very quickly and implode just as quickly. For those collecting for love of whatever it is price implosions aren't a bad thing, it's those in it to speculate that lose and plenty of collectors are happy when the speculators move onto the next thing. I have been thinking of buying a Wrenn 'City of Carlisle' purely for nostalgia and a reminder of home and prices seem much softer than they were.

 

So I don't know about becoming extinct but I suspect most models will end up endangered with a small-ish collectors base keeping some alive.

[Enterprisingwestern]

15 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

A couple of years ago I saw a Ford Orion in a car park in Milton Keynes, it made my day as I couldn't remember the last time I saw one.

 

Generally speaking, as rare as the Orion is, I bet the majority of the ones remaining are higher spec versions, Ghia's, XR3i equivalents etc, and the more basic 1100 L version is the rarest of them all, and not just for these cars, but any car of the period.

 

Mike.

[Johann Marsbar]

I've got one of those Tech-Cad Design OO Class 15 models which I bought in the fairly brief period that they were produced.  Never seen any mention of the things since that period - which must have been about 20 years ago, so I wonder how many of those are still about - or even how many were produced in the first place.......

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, Johann Marsbar said:

I've got one of those Tech-Cad Design OO Class 15 models which I bought in the fairly brief period that they were produced.  Never seen any mention of the things since that period - which must have been about 20 years ago, so I wonder how many of those are still about - or even how many were produced in the first place.......

Gosh yes I remember that.

 

paid upfront then several months to delivery, c1992 ?

The model, for its time was amazing.

I sold mine on about a decade ago.

 

 

[MyRule1]

2 hours ago, Johann Marsbar said:

I've got one of those Tech-Cad Design OO Class 15 models which I bought in the fairly brief period that they were produced.  Never seen any mention of the things since that period - which must have been about 20 years ago, so I wonder how many of those are still about - or even how many were produced in the first place.......

Like @adb968008 I paid upfront for on of these, I think if was for my xxth birthday. My wife spent hours chasing them on the phone until it finally arrived. It is now literally a museum piece as it is part of a static display in a local museum.

 

[Johann Marsbar]

From memory, the TechCad 15 was reviewed fairly glowingly in Traction magazine at the time (which would have been the likely place I saw it) and they got swamped with orders - hence the long wait for the delivery of the actual product. Not sure if I still have the copies of Traction from that period (early late 90's/early 2000's?) with the details in, as I did have a bit of a magazine cull when I moved house 4 years ago!

Weren't they going to do LMS 10000 or something like that immediately after the 15, though I can't remember whether they actually produced any.

[MyRule1]

Earlier discussion of Tech Cad Class 15 here

 

 

[jjb1970]

The TechCad 15 was a superb model for its time and still looks very good.

 

[adb968008]

I how much Lima stuff has actually been binned ?

 

I have a pile of Deltic bodies which I think are about bin ready, sure some of the 1970’s/early 80’s stuff was a bit ropey… The 9400/J50 for example.

 

But Lima had a formidable reputation of reliability of the motor. Aside of bad paint jobs, or the odd dropped one where the roof cracked from the lump weight moving, or end damage I dont see as much destruction.

 

 

Random noodling…A look online at ebay completed/sold items search..

 

Lima .. 8500 items, 3300 locos for sale now, inexcess of 11k items sold last quarter… thats not going to the bin anytime soon… multiply by 4 for a yearly average.. 44k  a year.

 

Crab 62 sold last quarter suggests avg 240 a year..  considering magnitudes more Triang jinties were made, its Avg of 800 suggests its survival is not faring as well.

The J50 /94xx isnt that much less than the crab… 

Lima 47 and 37 looks like an AVG of 1600 a year !, class 50 nearly 2000.

class 55 372 so 1400 a year

 

By Contrast..

Hornby class 50..202 last quarter.. so 800 a year.

 

endangered list ?

Trix class 76… 4.. so 16 a year.

Trix 73000 .. 3.. so 12 a year

Trix 124 ..7 so 28 a year (though I suspect many more of these are still squirrelled away).

 

 

* all considered those listings include spares, bits and odd “errors”.. like Hornby R50 in class 50 results, so its not pure science but its applied evenly to each search.

 

Edited Friday at 15:18 by adb968008

[The Johnster]

Everything will eventually go extinct.  In the case of model railway RTR, it will evntually succumb to plastic degradation, mazak rot, or rust; only the solder will remain; that lasts as long as diamonds.  Question is, what will be left in 50, 100, 500, 1,000 years?  Actually, only those young enough to reasonably expect to live another 50 years need worry about this...

.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited Friday at 18:30 by The Johnster

[Northmoor]

Some early "British" Lima is already surprisingly rare.  I have one of the centre-cab diesels which looks like a DB 211 on a long 4-wheeled chassis, in BR Green (coloured plastic) at D8900.  I cannot remember the last time I saw one for sale at a swapmeet.  Paid a fiver for it nearly 40 years ago, but I wouldn't expect it to fetch three times that even now*.

There will be versions of diesels from the 1990s (when there seemed to a dozen new versions every month) which will become vanishingly rare.  Not the limited editions with certificates - the owners know what they have - but standard editions that didn't sell well and got bought cheap by people who wanted to do their own detailing/repaints.

 

*Lima also made a HO-scale "torpedo" wagon that no-one wanted until a few years ago (£3 typical) then the superb Shenstone Road had one and suddenly swapmeet stalls were asking £15 or more.

[melmoth]

Lots of Lima 9400s have been revived with Bachmann 57xx underpinnings

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Have none of those posting thus far ever watched 'Antiques Roadshow' or pottered around a grand old house lovingly curated by the National Trust? This is a nation of expert (often accidental) and eccentric preservationists.

[kevinlms]

20 hours ago, Northmoor said:

Some early "British" Lima is already surprisingly rare.  I have one of the centre-cab diesels which looks like a DB 211 on a long 4-wheeled chassis, in BR Green (coloured plastic) at D8900.  I cannot remember the last time I saw one for sale at a swapmeet.  Paid a fiver for it nearly 40 years ago, but I wouldn't expect it to fetch three times that even now*.

There will be versions of diesels from the 1990s (when there seemed to a dozen new versions every month) which will become vanishingly rare.  Not the limited editions with certificates - the owners know what they have - but standard editions that didn't sell well and got bought cheap by people who wanted to do their own detailing/repaints.

 

*Lima also made a HO-scale "torpedo" wagon that no-one wanted until a few years ago (£3 typical) then the superb Shenstone Road had one and suddenly swapmeet stalls were asking £15 or more.

But does the theory hold true, that the less it looks like the alleged prototype, the less likely it will interest even half serious modeller? Effectively the price will be less and perhaps purchased for/by kids and so quickly become wrecked!

[adb968008]

17 hours ago, melmoth said:

Lots of Lima 9400s have been revived with Bachmann 57xx underpinnings

Me too…

 

 

Though since Bachmann made the 9400 this ones been withdrawn.

 

When I recover the chassis from it, this will likely disintegrate as I had to get quite vicious inside.

But its done its job well for 40 years, since I bought it originally for a tenner.

Edited 20 hours ago by adb968008

[Ben B]

I've been collecting older 00 clockwork toy trains in recent years- I particularly love the Brimtoy 4-wheel steam engine.  Interestingly, you see them come up from time to time on eBay, with the metal chassis (and often warped plastic bodies)... but it's the later ones with plastic chassis which are hens-teeth apparently. Which is ironic because it's a plastic-chassis version I've had since childhood which launched me into collecting them. The final generation, with a HST-ish body is near impossible to find in the usual markets these days, no doubt because they were essentially disposable toys, easily broken, and easily disposed of.

 

On the subject of plastic toys though, the book "The World Without Us" postulates that whatever future evolved species that come after us, once humanity has atom-bombed itself into extinction/ died from pollution/ died from disease/ been raptured, will have a funny view on us. Their equivalents to archaeologists will be digging, and keep coming up with strange, articulated figures with impossibly long legs and pinched waists, and long blonde hair, and have an odd take on what humans must have looked like and how we'd been proportioned. Barbie Dolls are apparently made of a type of plastic which will outlast our race by many years...

[Coldgunner]

7 minutes ago, Ben B said:

On the subject of plastic toys though, the book "The World Without Us" postulates that whatever future evolved species that come after us, once humanity has atom-bombed itself into extinction/ died from pollution/ died from disease/ been raptured, will have a funny view on us. Their equivalents to archaeologists will be digging, and keep coming up with strange, articulated figures with impossibly long legs and pinched waists, and long blonde hair, and have an odd take on what humans must have looked like and how we'd been proportioned. Barbie Dolls are apparently made of a type of plastic which will outlast our race by many years...

 

Will they think all the females were Barbie dolls, and all the males were tri-ang Jinty's?

[The Johnster]

9 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Me too…

 

 

Though since Bachmann made the 9400 this ones been withdrawn.

 

When I recover the chassis from it, this will likely disintegrate as I had to get quite vicious inside.

But its done its job well for 40 years, since I bought it originally for a tenner.

 

The chassis donor for mine was Baccy 57xx off the Bay, and when the Bachmann 94xx came out and this hybrid was withdrawn, it went back under it's original 57xx bodyshell and was put straight back into service; the 57xx was repainted and renumbered.  So the purchase of the Bachmann 94xx, for £104 off Rails (Bachmann's RRP was £129.99 IIRC) was effectively of two locos for more or less the full RRP; IIRC the eBay 57xx cost about £35. 

 

Since starting Cwmdimbath in 2016, I have never paid full price for a new loco, and not often for rolling stock...

[MJI]

On 18/10/2024 at 05:07, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Generally speaking, as rare as the Orion is, I bet the majority of the ones remaining are higher spec versions, Ghia's, XR3i equivalents etc, and the more basic 1100 L version is the rarest of them all, and not just for these cars, but any car of the period.

 

Mike.

 

Ends up as a few basic in museums as most owners will take the opportunity to upgrade theirs.

 

Quite common, find a better engine in the scrap yard, buy it and fit it.