BR traction instructor Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 (edited) ...given the prices being charged nowadays and the availability of 3D scanners there is no excuse to not get the basic body shape accurate and at least give the detailing modellers a fighting chance to tweak the more random cosmetic features in order to finish up with a realistic end result that reflects money spent/modelling time invested. More frustrating still is that Heljan have a history of fundamental body errors/reusing old/incorrect body shapes instead of researching/launching new models as new models. BeRTIe Edited October 12 by BR traction instructor 3 4 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieGuyRob Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 15 minutes ago, BR traction instructor said: ...pretty sure that I've seen that with an opaque white panel in it on early locos...possibly a marker light when the train describer frames were in place. BeRTIe I agree. Some of the earlist photos of the class have that thing as opaque or a glass panel. All the photos that have been posted since, have it painted over. I think the D600 warships had something similar. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 (edited) 32 minutes ago, robertcwp said: D815_Wloo-1 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr Incredibly the McGraw & Co. Moulding Works building still survives adjacent to Plat 24 at the former WIT after almost 60 years of re-development in the adjacent area ..................................................... The loco is stood around about 1/2 way down the current Platforms 22 / 23 ........... Edited October 11 by Southernman46 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 This is the most side-on image in my collection: 6319-867_Swindon_Scrap_crop_m by Robert Carroll, on Flickr 4 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators AY Mod Posted October 11 Administrators Share Posted October 11 8 minutes ago, robertcwp said: This is the most side-on image in my collection: 6319-867_Swindon_Scrap_crop_m by Robert Carroll, on Flickr Looks like painter's ladder toppled over. 3 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 8 minutes ago, AY Mod said: Looks like painter's ladder toppled over. Certainly a unique interpretation for the yellow bits 🙂 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 Bit like when the painter dropped his can of white paint over Henry... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted October 11 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 11 Side on image of both preserved ones here flickr url / not mine 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_crisp Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 The nose is interesting as it does look different on different machines... my guess is they were done by hand quite a bit so there's a risk every one is unique. But fair play to Heljan as there's lots of good stuff... the grills look very crisp and one of the most refined I've seen, handrails look good and not like someone's got over enthusiastic with a stapler, and the seperately fitted parts look like they've been applied to holes designed for the piece and not over sized. Seems to be a bit of a fashion these days to have seperately fitted parts placed in holes way larger than they need to be which kind of spoils the effect. I'm also interested in the glazing as despite it looking a little misty (being a pre prod example i guess) it looks like it could be pretty decent which hasn't really happened in many new releases as most look pretty naff tbh. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maico Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 You can see the welded panels here 14 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halvarras Posted October 12 Share Posted October 12 10 hours ago, Hal Nail said: The cab door kickplate appears to be a separate part - this hopefully indicates that Heljan is aware that the 13 disc headcode locos originally had smooth rubber sheet kickplates which didn't last long in service before being replaced by the standard aluminium strip type - during headcode conversion work if not before. The cab door handrails on D800-2 also curved in top and bottom, although that's probably a detail too far! The offset oval-shaped thingy on the nose was originally a ventilation grille, the first maroon repaints from September 1965 retained this but replacement by a blank seems to have occurred from some point during 1966 - on the face of it a strange thing to do when the Westerns had cab ventilation grilles retrospectively added - well a few of them did, on the front or under the 'hood' - to combat hot cabs in summer, but then the Western's larger windscreens must have felt like piloting a greenhouse.... The flaky paint tendency was due to chunks of a smoothing filler called 'Prestolith' cracking and falling off, allowing surface corrosion of the underlying steel bodywork to set in - this was a problem which presumably needed keeping on top of since serious corrosion could compromise the 'stressed-skin' load-bearing structure of the loco's body. Although 'The Book of the Warships' is a mine of information there are a few glitches in it (as there are with many books containing this level of detail) and I found it difficult to believe that engineers would choose to make D830's exhaust ports oval-shaped in preference to round, square, or rectangular, so my model (Mainline with a Bachmann chassis, in green livery) has round ports. Photos are very inconclusive but I calculated that, compared to the NBL Class 43, D830's exhaust ports were 15" (5mm) further back from the cab ends and 6" (2mm) further inboard. I have since queried this detail on RMweb and somebody confirmed round. I only saw D830 a few times and bizarrely never thought to look at its exhaust outlets.......🤪! 2 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted October 12 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 12 (edited) The Mainline/Bachmann Class 42 was a superb model in its day, for something dating back to the 70's the body still looks good and Bachmann's upgraded mechanism gave it excellent performance. Their Class 43 is superb and still stands favourable comparison with the latest D&E releases. I hope Heljan do a good job with this, hopefully it is not too late to correct issues. Heljan are a bit Jekyll and Hyde, they can do some things extremely well and then others which leave me asking 'why?'. Edited October 12 by jjb1970 3 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted October 12 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 12 1 hour ago, jjb1970 said: Bachmann's upgraded mechanism gave it excellent performance. Helped by the model weighing about 550g. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted October 12 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 12 (edited) 13 hours ago, AY Mod said: The lower third of the body front near the corners looks, in the pictures shown, to be near vertical. It should start almost vertical at the very bottom and gently increase in curvature as it rises. It's not the easiest thing to describe although to some extent doing so is rather pointless anyway because people can either see it for themselves or they are never going to! I don't know if the real things did actually vary much but certainly different lighting conditions, liveries and most of all the angle you are looking at seems to alter their appearance quite a lot. Looking from a 3/4 view they are much more swept back than fully side on because the edges of the nose tapered away. This is what isn't right about the 7mm version which basically keeps the same bulky profile right across the nose to very near the edges. Heljans business model seems to be that their stuff sells as it is, so spending longer refining things isn't going to increase returns. If it works for them - and plenty of people seem happy to pay full price even knowing full well they will end up massively discounted sooner or later - I'm not sure we are ever going to change that (nor perhaps should we!). Edited October 12 by Hal Nail 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted October 12 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 12 This is actually the clearest I've seen as the weld line shows the profile. Heljans 7mm one - and this new looks the same to me - is more like the left hand line in section. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators AY Mod Posted October 12 Administrators Share Posted October 12 38 minutes ago, Hal Nail said: different lighting conditions, liveries and most of all the angle you are looking at seems to alter their appearance quite a lot. I'm mindful of that with regard to the photos shown of the model, hence the way I phrased it as based on the few pictures; they don't give any square on elevations which could help. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_crisp Posted October 12 Share Posted October 12 (edited) I was also just looking at the construction photo as it's been really helpful to me to understand how the shape of the front is formed. I've come to the same conclusion on the original as below 10 minutes ago, Hal Nail said: This is actually the clearest I've seen as the weld line shows the profile. Heljans 7mm one - and this new looks the same to me - is more like the left hand line in section. The top curve you've highlighted is the most important as it seems all other curves are impacted by this one. Not sure how much this one varied on the prototype but the preservation photos show the two having slightly different bashing outs of the panels but that's all. Saying all that and going back to original photo the top loco out of shot in this photo has more a Heljan esque curve. Edited October 12 by dj_crisp Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray M Posted October 12 Share Posted October 12 Lets hope they get those hand rails below the windscreen a lot better. To at least follow the shape of the lower part of the windscreen And lets have that "middle wicket". Im up for one, if the can get the shape as nice as the Bachmann 43 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium pete_mcfarlane Posted October 12 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 12 19 hours ago, Hal Nail said: Whilst the nose is quite bulbous from side on, its only really like that in the very middle and towards the edges its quite swept back. Heljan didn't get this right in 7mm - I'd originally planned to try and file it down to a better shape but got cold feet and sold it on. The area circled would be my concern as sticking out too much, same as the O gauge one. The nose looks more like the original V200 than a warship. Has anyone mentioned that the cab roofs on the first three were a slightly different shape? 2 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted October 12 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 12 28 minutes ago, pete_mcfarlane said: The nose looks more like the original V200 than a warship. Has anyone mentioned that the cab roofs on the first three were a slightly different shape? How about a fair comparison… flickr url/not mine D821 at the NYMR in DB livery c1993 V200 033 at Trier in 2018 oh and thanks to the above I think ive solved the patch mystery… on the v200’s its a fresh air vent to the drivers cab.. 10 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
locoholic Posted October 12 Share Posted October 12 Glad that the original three Warships are being done, but I'm going to wait to see the finished model before I decide to buy, as the "face" of the Warships seems to be difficult to get right - Lima didn't, Bachmann did, and Heljan have a rather patchy record in this sort of matter. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted October 12 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 12 (edited) 5 minutes ago, locoholic said: Glad that the original three Warships are being done, but I'm going to wait to see the finished model before I decide to buy, as the "face" of the Warships seems to be difficult to get right - Lima didn't, Bachmann did, and Heljan have a rather patchy record in this sort of matter. Lima and Bachmann side by side, imo Limas is a bit more rump on the nose.. Edited October 12 by adb968008 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted October 12 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 12 4 minutes ago, adb968008 said: I always liked this one purely as it was named after Thin Lizzy's lead guitarist! 1 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted October 12 Share Posted October 12 I'm really pleased to see Heljan doing the 42s, let's hope the finished article is the bast it can be. 821 and 832 on the Valley at last year's epic four day Hydraulic-fest... Considering their age, the stressed skin construction has held up remarkably well... 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted October 12 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 12 If I've understood this correctly Heljan wil be doing D813 and upwards whilst Rails+Heljan will do 2 other variants, D800-802 and D803-812? https://railsofsheffield.com/blogs/news/all-new-Heljan-oo-gauge-class-42-warship-announced?utm_source=Klaviyo&utm_medium=campaign&utm_campaign=Heljan Class 42 Warship Announcement&utm_id=01J9XE6F45BY6YB49V80XACNRN&_kx=ES7dmQIxI22y_w6nEODf0M6_mDXxP8WAs34MfT5sOcXqnSFePN1n7xZw98DdvMB7.RXkVMS 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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