New Heljan 00 Class 42 Warship

[adb968008]

5 minutes ago, classy52 said:

Will there be current Preserved variants done, basically the two which are still in existence as shown in the video?

I checked the Rail website but these two don't appear in the list as current day Preserved.

 

Cheers

Steve

i’d like to see D832 as it was in Black…

 

 

 

 

Both flickr url / not mine

 

I still have the original Lima EP for that limited edition that never happened.

 

 

Edited October 11 by adb968008

[Pendle Forest]

13 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

i’d like to see D832 as it was in Black…

 

 

 

 

Both flickr url / not mine

 

I still have the original Lima EP for that limited edition that never happened.

 

 

That looks proper classy!

[wombatofludham]

I know ugger ball about the Warships other than I think the 42s were Swindon built and the 43s North British, plus bizarrely some Class 43s did have a spell at Bescot in 1967-8 and even got to Stoke on Trent on occasions, but do any Western fans know if any of the 42s worked the then freight only line from Leamington to Coventry and on to Bescot in 1968?  I know the 43s were rotated to Bescot specifically for inter-regional freight to and from the Western so could have used the link but I wonder if anyone has any records of the 42s doing likewise?

Otherwise I suppose Rule 1 could be invoked, but it is interesting that Heljan are doing the 42 as I would have thought Bachmann might be working on one after the relative success of the 43.

I could be tempted either way.

[robertcwp]

The image shown on the Rails website for their exclusive D800 has several errors but I hope this is because it's just a generic mock-up. Wrong grilles and wrong roof in several respects, for example. Let's hope they get the models right.

 

D800 Warships are a complete minefield of variations between and in some cases within the batches. 

 

This is what the roof of D800-2 looked like:

 

D801_CJ_1966 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

No slotted vent above nameplate on one side, circular vent for train heating boiler instead. No walkways across the fan grilles. Large bodyside grilles with a single central divide.

Edited October 11 by robertcwp
Add image and commentary thereon.

[Tankerman]

I will apologise on advance if my comments cause offence to anyone. At the age of 78 my memory is not what it was, but I can still remember when, aged 13 or 14 standing on Truro station and instead of hearing the two cylinder beat of a Grange I heard the throbbing beat of the diesel engines of a D800 'Warship. This Heljan model has the looks of a Warship and that is what matters to me.

 

It doesn't matter if the curves aren't quite correct or the handrails are a millimetre or so too long or too short, I just want to watch again the sight of a Warship, relive the days of my youth and the memories that invokes.

[40F]

39 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

i’d like to see D832 as it was in Black

 

I looks dark green to me

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, 40F said:

 

I looks dark green to me

It was BR steam loco black, I helped paint it… 1992 diesel gala.

it was all done in a week. It was going to have an Aluminium lion but got the transfer, I think the very morning of the event.. it might have even run a turn without them.

I recall there was some fun with the nameplate too.

 

The green was coming off in 5mm thick chunks, like pieces of plastic. So it got black for a diesel weekend before a proper repaint.

 

The 40 went large logo blue too, complete with Eth cable from a scrap class 81, and an Aerial… Numbered 40445 with Scottie dog.

Edited October 11 by adb968008

[Dunsignalling]

9 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

It was BR steam loco black, I helped paint it… it was all done in a week.

 

The green was coming off in 5mm thick chunks, like pieces of plastic. So it got  black for a diesel weekend before a proper repaint.

 

The 40 went large logo blue too, complete with Eth pipes, and an Aerial.

 

I remember D813 Diadem being like that in service, looked like it was peeling after very bad sunburn!

 

IIRC, it wasn't just paint. There was a layer of stopper to smooth out the body ripples and stop them looking like a Bulleid Spamcan.

[alastairb]

49 minutes ago, Tankerman said:

I will apologise on advance if my comments cause offence to anyone. At the age of 78 my memory is not what it was, but I can still remember when, aged 13 or 14 standing on Truro station and instead of hearing the two cylinder beat of a Grange I heard the throbbing beat of the diesel engines of a D800 'Warship. This Heljan model has the looks of a Warship and that is what matters to me.

 

It doesn't matter if the curves aren't quite correct or the handrails are a millimetre or so too long or too short, I just want to watch again the sight of a Warship, relive the days of my youth and the memories that invokes.

They don't offend me. I look for models that remind me of my youth. As long as they are reasonably accurate I'm happy. Reading RMWEB I feel like some folk went train watching tape measure in hand, rather being awestruck by 100 tons of diesel Loco (and trying to capture it on an Instamatic)

[robertcwp]

More on the detail variations.

 

D800-2 - prototype batch, disc headcodes (later changed), no walkways across the fan grilles, short handrails under cab front windows (later changed), circular vent on roof for train heating boiler and no slotted vent above nameplate on one side, single divide on large grilles, different MU system to later ones (later removed).

D801_440_Paddington by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

D802_ExeterC_1441-to-Wloo_22-7-68_crop-2 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

D803-12 - main changes from D800-2 were walkways across the fan grilles and longer handrails under the cab front windows from new, changed MU system.

D803_Woking by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

D804_Waterloo_17-2-68 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

D813-29/31 - this was the batch that the Mainline model was based on. Two divides in large grilles, slotted boiler vent on one side above nameplate and no circular vent on roof, some changes to the valancing.

D814_Starcross_15-7-62 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

D831_D827_Plymouth_13-4-68 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

D830 - Paxman engines so different (offset and oval) exhausts.

 

D832 - as for D813-29/31 except for raised fan grilles like on almost all NBL ones, which it retains in preservation.

D832_Weymouth_5-7-70 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

D866-69 - reverted to circular boiler vent on roof and no slotted vent above nameplate. A couple of these had the raised fan grilles.

D866_Weybridge_4-3-67 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

869_Bristol_TM_10-7-71 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

D870 - as for D866-9 except for horns above cab.

870_812_803_Exeter_5-6-71 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

Changes in later life included removal then in some cases refitting of MU gear, loss of top lamp bracket and headboard clips and probably much more. 

 

Livery history is similarly complex, with only D800 withdrawn GSYP, D808 and D810 being the two GFYE, D830-1 were BSYP but styles differed. Many but not all carried maroon, some with full yellow ends, with D801 withdrawn MSYP and D809/15/7 withdrawn MFYE (possibly others), and numerous styles of BFYE with number and emblem variations. 

[robertcwp]

By the way, I have ordered six but if they turn out as bad as the images suggest then I might cancel and forego my £30 deposit for each one. I'm not expecting to do that, though, and would very much like a better Class 42 than the ageing Mainline/Bachmann one.

[gwrrob]

10 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

More on the detail variations.

 

D800-2 - prototype batch, disc headcodes (later changed), no walkways across the fan grilles, short handrails under cab front windows (later changed), circular vent on roof for train heating boiler and no slotted vent above nameplate on one side, single divide on large grilles, different MU system to later ones (later removed).

D801_440_Paddington by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

D802_ExeterC_1441-to-Wloo_22-7-68_crop-2 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

D803-12 - main changes from D800-2 were walkways across the fan grilles and longer handrails under the cab front windows from new, changed MU system.

D803_Woking by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

D804_Waterloo_17-2-68 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

D813-29/31 - this was the batch that the Mainline model was based on. Two divides in large grilles, slotted boiler vent on one side above nameplate and no circular vent on roof, some changes to the valancing.

D814_Starcross_15-7-62 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

D831_D827_Plymouth_13-4-68 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

D830 - Paxman engines so different (offset and oval) exhausts.

 

D832 - as for D813-29/31 except for raised fan grilles like on almost all NBL ones, which it retains in preservation.

D832_Weymouth_5-7-70 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

D866-69 - reverted to circular boiler vent on roof and no slotted vent above nameplate. A couple of these had the raised fan grilles.

D866_Weybridge_4-3-67 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

869_Bristol_TM_10-7-71 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

D870 - as for D866-9 except for horns above cab.

870_812_803_Exeter_5-6-71 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

 

 

Love the Starcross shot, do you have anymore of them in South Devon @robertcwp

[Ian Hargrave]

On 11/10/2024 at 19:32, robertcwp said:

By the way, I have ordered six but if they turn out as bad as the images suggest then I might cancel and forego my £30 deposit for each one. I'm not expecting to do that, though, and would very much like a better Class 42 than the ageing Mainline/Bachmann one.

Glad you showed 870’s horns. Which would need new tooling. Temple Meads was always a Warship Fest. The combination around 1 H 32 ..Wolverhampton bound Cornishman & 1A98. Up Bristolian was a sight around 4:30 pm 

Then a Stafford Road Castle took The Cornishman onwards via the line that The G&W Line now runs. An hour earlier,The Devonian had arrived behind a Holbeck Jubilee. It then became 1V39 westbound behind a Laira Warship.

Edited October 13 by Ian Hargrave
Correction

[Halvarras]

6 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

The image shown on the Rails website for their exclusive D800 is full of errors but I hope this is because it's just a generic mock-up. Wrong grilles and wrong roof in several respects, for example. Let's hope they get the models right.

 

D800 Warships are a complete minefield of variations between and in some cases within the batches. 

 

I noted that too - the body as shown is basically a 'production' loco with disc ends grafted on. Bachmann had it easy with the NBL Class 43 as they were all pretty much identical - a very few had Swindon flush roof fan grilles and other minor details included position of driver's name card holders on the cabsides which Bachmann wisely omitted as they can obstruct the accurate application of some blue livery variations, so I'd advise Heljan to do the same on their Class 42, disc headcode versions possibly excepted - these 13 also have a considerable number of detail differences to the rest, and conversion to headcode panels only complicated things further with D801/4 retaining all 3 lamp brackets and headboard fastenings, D806/9/12 losing the fastenings and the remainder losing the fastenings and the top centre lamp bracket - only for D803 to later regain all of these features on one end due to getting a replacement nose (probably from D830)!

 

As I've mentioned on here previously, the Mainline/Bachmann Class 42 only accurately represents D818 'Glory' with its unique Spanner Mark 3 train heating boiler, a legacy from research conducted on the real 'Glory' during its long sojourn at Swindon Works (the Fleischmann HO model was the same) - this affects the centre roof panel. Ignoring this detail, it was good for D813-29/31 only - Paxman-engined D830 was similar to a Class 43 with diagonally offset exhausts and D832 had (and still has) Class 43-style raised roof fan grilles. These locos all had Stones boilers which, like all Class 43s, required a ventilation louvre cut into the cantrail above the nameplate on one side only (and this positioned above the central fuel filler opening in the underframe, also on one side only). This louvre was absent on D800-12 & 866-70 which had Spanner Mark 1a boilers - instead these had a large circular panel above the boiler compartment with ventilation holes around its periphery. As a result around half of all Bachmann Class 42 releases were incorrect!

 

With regard to the EP shown, I acknowledge that it's early days yet so let's not be too judgmental - however I should point out that, on the O gauge Warship, Heljan fell into the train heating boiler trap on blue D866 and maroon D869, so let us hope there is more attention to detail on the OO version........

 

I note that in the time it's taken me to type this, @robertcwp has pretty much wrapped this up in pictorial form, and then some 😊!

[Captain Kernow]

I'm quite happy with my detailed original Bachmann Warship, so I wasn't that excited by this announcement, but then I saw @robertcwp's photo of the maroon one with full yellow ends and now I want one!

 

Given that it's Heljan, I'm hoping it will be as easy to convert to P4 as my other Heljan diesels.

 

That livery is just crying out to be weathered to within an inch of it's life!

 

[Tankerman]

46 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

 

Theres no need to wait then.. Trix, Fleischmann, Mainline and Bachmann models are all readily available, for about half the price… you could have 2 -6 of them by next weekend for the same money.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=class+42

 

if someones making a new one, and still at EP stage why not suggest how it could be better…once they have been made, and on the boat its too late to change and everybody loses… then whinges and whines about it.

 

But if your ok with ok, your not compelled to by this one.. theres loads already out there… fundamentally theres nothing really that wrong with them either..Mainlines 42 was brilliant at its time and way ahead anything else around it… I paid a whopping £9.99 for my D824 Highflyer, waited 6 weeks for delivery… and I still have it today, c45 years later still works.

 

But i’m all for a retool of the Warship fundamentally its not been retooled properly in 40 odd years.

 

I had always understood that most, if not all, of the Class 42 Warship models, previous to the Bachmann Class 43, had more or less discernible errors. Making  the Bachmann Class 43 the first reasonable representation, which is why I bought one.

 

I have also bought the following Dapol models and I am now hoping that these are also reasonable representations of the prototype. Class 41, Class 22 and two versions of the Class 52. The reason for buying two versions of the Class 52 is that the first one I saw was at North Road in the summer of 1964 when she was fitted with a rotating 'clearscreen' wiper and I saw a reduced price version for sale a couple of years ago.

 

I would also like, sincerely, to thank you for your reply, as it reminded me that my son bought me a copy of The Book of the Warships by John Dennison some years ago. I have had a look through it and now realise just how many variations, both major and minor, existed.

[adb968008]

1 minute ago, Tankerman said:

 

I had always understood that most, if not all, of the Class 42 Warship models, previous to the Bachmann Class 43, had more or less discernible errors. Making  the Bachmann Class 43 the first reasonable representation, which is why I bought one.

 

I have also bought the following Dapol models and I am now hoping that these are also reasonable representations of the prototype. Class 41, Class 22 and two versions of the Class 52. The reason for buying two versions of the Class 52 is that the first one I saw was at North Road in the summer of 1964 when she was fitted with a rotating 'clearscreen' wiper and I saw a reduced price version for sale a couple of years ago.

 

I would also like, sincerely, to thank you for your reply, as it reminded me that my son bought me a copy of The Book of the Warships by John Dennison some years ago. I have had a look through it and now realise just how many variations, both major and minor, existed.

Dapols Western is a trendsetter of a model, it set the standard for modelling when it came out... Fantastic both above and below the body. Ive bought way more than I need.

 

tbh i’d be gutted if someone retooled it so soon as its still a fantastic model in my view.

[PieGuyRob]

Can I ask what the thing I have circled in the picture is for? It has been bugging me for years. 

 

Edited October 11 by PieGuyRob

[robertcwp]

1 hour ago, gwrrob said:

 

Love the Starcross shot, do you have anymore of them in South Devon @robertcwp

There are more in the album.

[robertcwp]

19 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Dapols Western is a trendsetter of a model, it set the standard for modelling when it came out... Fantastic both above and below the body. Ive bought way more than I need.

 

tbh i’d be gutted if someone retooled it so soon as its still a fantastic model in my view.

Really? The headcodes are too small and the mechanism is poor. One of mine went up in smoke and others can be poor runners. The overall shape is much better than Heljan's though.

[adb968008]

19 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

Really? The headcodes are too small and the mechanism is poor. One of mine went up in smoke and others can be poor runners. The overall shape is much better than Heljan's though.

Poor runners …

 

There was a tight drive shaft issue on the first releases, ive modded a few but they all run fine.

 

But the body was a vast improvement on the Heljan model with its bookshelf window sill… or the Hornby one. Limas body wasnt bad imo, ok for its day…

 

But against other diesels of 2013, what else was that good ?

 

30 minutes ago, PieGuyRob said:

Can I ask what the thing I have circled in the picture is for? It has been bugging me for years. 

 

 

Both D821/D832 entered preservation with them.
but D832 lost it during its 2011 overhaul… D821 only had it one end by 1993.. its lost it both ends since.

 

Edited October 11 by adb968008

[robertcwp]

1 hour ago, Captain Kernow said:

I'm quite happy with my detailed original Bachmann Warship, so I wasn't that excited by this announcement, but then I saw @robertcwp's photo of the maroon one with full yellow ends and now I want one!

 

Given that it's Heljan, I'm hoping it will be as easy to convert to P4 as my other Heljan diesels.

 

That livery is just crying out to be weathered to within an inch of it's life!

 

D815_Wloo-1 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

815_826_Exeter_16-5-71 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

817_BristolBR_10-7-71 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

D811_BristolTM_26-7-69 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

809_Exeter_1230_to_Wloo_5-6-71 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

D806_Bristol_2-3-68 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

D805_Exeter_0850-Liverpool-Plymouth_1968 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

[robertcwp]

Here are the two GFYE ones:

D808_Bristol-BR_22-12-67 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

D810_BBR_22-12-67 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

And two views of the odd one out - Majestic with Paxman engines:

D830_Kingswear_1961 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

D830 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[BR traction instructor]

30 minutes ago, PieGuyRob said:

Can I ask what the thing I have circled in the picture is for? It has been bugging me for years. 

 

 

...pretty sure that I've seen that with an opaque white panel in it on early locos...possibly a marker light when the train describer frames were in place.

 

BeRTIe

Edited October 11 by BR traction instructor

[dj_crisp]

5 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

 

 

Whilst the nose is quite bulbous from side on, its only really like that in the very middle and towards the edges its quite swept back.

 

Heljan didn't get this right in 7mm - I'd originally planned to try and file it down to a better shape but got cold feet and sold it on. The area circled would be my concern as sticking out too much, same as the O gauge one.

 

 

 

 

 

Sadly it looks like another standard Heljan release. Not enough time spent at the design stage to sort out obvious errors. Tbh I'm seeing this as more common with modern releases.