New Heljan 00 Class 42 Warship

[MidlandRed]

8 hours ago, stovepipe said:

 

The Warship operation to Crewe via Shrewbsury was from 1962-64. The last Warship noted at Crewe in this phase was in July 1964.

 

There was a second period in 1967/8, when the NBL Warships went to the West Midlands to work the Paddington services from the October, with driver training starting in June/July. Their work on passenger trains only lasted 2 months or so, after several failures in traffic, but they kept the freight and parcels duties for a while. One of these workings took a Warship back to Crewe.

Thanks for this. Presumably the Brush 4s replaced them in 1964. 

 

9 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

Wasn’t the OHLE south of Crewe built with reduced clearances based on experiences north there of? 

Yes - however steam continued to operate concurrently with diesel and electric traction south of Crewe, and certainly in the Birmingham and Rugby areas persisted until at least 1966, and 1967 at Oxley and Stoke. Only those steam locos with the diagonal yellow stripe on the cab sides were actually banned. Discussion has happened on this forum before about what areas were actually banned to them. I remember seeing steam at Stafford concurrently with diesel and electric hauled passenger services - including Brit 70048 on a passenger train (may have been bound for Birmingham). 

[Fredo]

Hi, how about a model of D830 as it was fitted with a Paxman engine and Mekydro transmissions. Thanks Fred

[Phil Bullock]

1 hour ago, Fredo said:

Hi, how about a model of D830 as it was fitted with a Paxman engine and Mekydro transmissions. Thanks Fred

 Roof detail would be easy for Accurascale with removable roof panel… 

[Kirby Uncoupler]

15 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

No one has mentioned the lovely Trix warship model or the MTK one. I remember going into Brian's Scale Models along Midland Road, Bedford and seeing a pair of MTK Warships on the secondhand shelf wishing my paper round money was a tad bit more so I could buy one.

 

Despite being in the second place to the Mainline/Bachmann model in detail and possibly accuracy, I always thought the Lima model when pounding along at the head of train had the presence of a Warship as how I remembered them thundering through Farnborough station. The Mainline model and the improved Bachmann model appear to me a bit wimpy. I hope that the Heljan model can recreate that vision of power on the rails like the Lima one does.

 

 

I tried to find a photo of a MTK Warship but all I could find where pictures of the box.  

 

It's surprising how many manufacturers produced a D8XX Warship, and three of them were German/Austrian (Fleischmann, Marklin and Trix). Didn't the Marklin and Trix come with cutaway front skirts and buffers for sharp curves, looked a bit like a skeleton's jaw (What do you think of the show so far? Rubbish!)? The best of these three was the Fleischmann, it was way ahead in smooth running and precision, it even came with add-on WR train headboards, and lights. Trouble was, they made it in dead scale HO for the European market, they would have sold far more in the albeit corrupt OO scale. 

      There was still the Modern Traction Kits option, but few seemed to be built up, they were incredibly heavy, just think, they are all still out there somewhere, hidden at the back of people's stock cupboards.

      Back then we all bought Lima Westerns by the bucket load, but we held back on the similar spec Lima Warship when that appeared, cos the good-looking Mainline Warship was also on the scene. Trouble was, the Mainline sister looked beautiful, but was rather frigid in performance, whereas the Lima ugly sister was anybody's, and a definite goer (in mechanical terms)

     I've often contemplated the guilty pleasure of improving a Lima Warship, the windscreen top corners looked too square, and the side body windows too recessed, but the hooters at both ends were the right shape. Too late now, why make a hair shirt for myself? But as Clive hinted at, a Lima Warship under power was it's own sound unit, and knocked out a roar from the motor/s. I've converted several other Lima types to twin-motor (winning a free dummy in the process), but a Lima Warship with two motors might be somefink else?

                                                                             Cheers, Brian.

      

Edited Wednesday at 10:40 by Kirby Uncoupler
Crossing Ts

[96701]

Just pre-ordered a maroon version from Derails, I already have a blue one and a green one, so no more Warships for me after this.

[Mallard60022]

12 minutes ago, 96701 said:

Just pre-ordered a maroon version from Derails, I already have a blue one and a green one, so no more Warships for me after this.

Not even a heavily weathered one Phil? (As per 1970/1/2 condition?) 

LOL

Phil (the/another one)

[andyman7]

20 minutes ago, Kirby Uncoupler said:

It's surprising how many manufacturers produced a D8XX Warship, and three of them were German/Austrian (Fleischmann, Marklin and Trix). Didn't the Marklin and Trix come with cutaway front skirts and buffers for sharp curves, looked a bit like a skeleton's jaw (What do you think of the show so far? Rubbish!)? The best of these three was the Fleischmann, it was way ahead in smooth running and precision, it even came with add-on WR train headboards, and lights. Trouble was, they made it in dead scale HO for the European market, they would have sold far more in the albeit corrupt OO scale. 

      There was still the Modern Traction Kits option, but few seemed to be built up, they were incredibly heavy, just think, they are all still out there somewhere, hidden at the back of people's stock cupboards.

      Back then we all bought Lima Westerns by the bucket load, but we held back on the similar spec Lima Warship when that appeared, cos the good-looking Mainline Warship was also on the scene. Trouble was, the Mainline sister looked beautiful, but was rather frigid in performance, whereas the Lima ugly sister was anybody's, and a definite goer (in mechanical terms)

     I've often contemplated the guilty pleasure of improving a Lima Warship, the windscreen top corners looked too square, and the side body windows too recessed, but the hooters at both ends were the right shape. Too late now, why make a hair shirt for myself? But as Clive hinted at, a Lima Warship under power was it's own sound unit, and knocked out a roar from the motor/s. I've converted several other Lima types to twin-motor (winning a free dummy in the process, but a Lima Warship with two motors might be somefink else?

                                                                             Cheers, Brian.

      

Indeed. I have the Trix, MTK, Q kIts, Fleischmann, Lima, Mainline and Bachmann versions (the earlier ones as part of my vintage proprietary collection, The Q Kits one was used for building the photographic samples when Lima announced their model. If a Marklin one came my way I'd add that one too - the V200 heritage clearly inspired the German manufacturers for this one.

[Mallard60022]

This product looks OK in photos, but I'm not commenting on 'the front' until I've seen an actual one. 

I like Heljan Diesels as they really haul and I've had zero bad ones of various classes. I like the Hymek and the 33.

My Mainline one still works (on loan) at a pal's Layout and my 3 or four (can't remember precisely...one is EM and is sound fitted) Baccy ones look OK to me I'm sad to admit.

Looking forward to seeing an example.

Phil

 

[Dunsignalling]

24 minutes ago, Kirby Uncoupler said:

It's surprising how many manufacturers produced a D8XX Warship, and three of them were German/Austrian (Fleischmann, Marklin and Trix). Didn't the Marklin and Trix come with cutaway front skirts and buffers for sharp curves, looked a bit like a skeleton's jaw (What do you think of the show so far? Rubbish!)? The best of these three was the Fleischmann, it was way ahead in smooth running and precision, it even came with add-on WR train headboards, and lights. Trouble was, they made it in dead scale HO for the European market, they would have sold far more in the albeit corrupt OO scale. 

      There was still the Modern Traction Kits option, but few seemed to be built up, they were incredibly heavy, just think, they are all still out there somewhere, hidden at the back of people's stock cupboards.

      Back then we all bought Lima Westerns by the bucket load, but we held back on the similar spec Lima Warship when that appeared, cos the good-looking Mainline Warship was also on the scene. Trouble was, the Mainline sister looked beautiful, but was rather frigid in performance, whereas the Lima ugly sister was anybody's, and a definite goer (in mechanical terms)

     I've often contemplated the guilty pleasure of improving a Lima Warship, the windscreen top corners looked too square, and the side body windows too recessed, but the hooters at both ends were the right shape. Too late now, why make a hair shirt for myself? But as Clive hinted at, a Lima Warship under power was it's own sound unit, and knocked out a roar from the motor/s. I've converted several other Lima types to twin-motor (winning a free dummy in the process), but a Lima Warship with two motors might be somefink else?

                                                                             Cheers, Brian.

      

 

IIRC, the issue with the "continental" Warships was that the length, width and height dimensions were randomly distributed between 3.5mm and 4mm scales....  

[AY Mod]

1 hour ago, Phil Bullock said:

 Roof detail would be easy for Accurascale with removable roof panel… 

 

Behave 🤣

[St Enodoc]

47 minutes ago, 96701 said:

no more Warships for me after this

Yeah, right.

[Strathwood]

On 15/10/2024 at 11:44, D860 VICTORIOUS said:

Just to echo some of Kevin's thoughts,back then getting numbers underlined in your book was most important.

I started spotting at Southall in 1968,used to take my Ian Allan ABC and underline stuff as it came through,no thought of keeping records at that time.I saw D830 and D863,but to a nine-year old they would have been "just another Warship". Also remember the D/Headed workings. Missed D800-D802,more associated with Waterloo-Exeter work at the time,and missed D840 and D848.Have a clear memory of a green Warship passing Southall on a down freight,with an EMU in the consist,perhaps on it's last journey. Anyway,that's all nostagia overload,back to Heljan's forthcoming model.

I  really hope the various permutations are modelled,within reason.There's enough expertise and knowledge available,and more pictures of the class seem to appear nowadays.If Heljan are willing to engage with people who would like to buy the model,and take note of the variations highlighted in this forum,their class 42 should be a top model.

Living variously at Feltham, Hounslow and Brentford during the 1960s and 1970s meant that the footbridge at Southall was one of my many haunts too as it was easily reached by pushbike, as were Ealing Broadway, Old Oak, Willesden, Cricklewood & Stonebridge Park. Used to hang about to enjoy the evening Bristol & South Wales Pullmans from the bridge at Southall, then peddle like mad to get home in time for tea before it went in the bin.

 

Kevin

[Tankerman]

18 hours ago, Fredo said:

Hi, how about a model of D830 as it was fitted with a Paxman engine and Mekydro transmissions. Thanks Fred

Regarding Paxman engines, another story from my time at sea as electical officer. In 1972 I joined my first motorship, the Orissa, one of three sisterships, it had been steam turbines before that.

 

The three sisters had been built as cheaply as possible, I won't mention the shipyard, but it was in Scotland and had a so-so reputation. The story was that there were six Paxman 2,000 bhp engines availaible which had been bought to power three minesweepers for the RN, which had been cancelled. They were then bought cheaply by the shipowner to replace the two low pressure steam turbines normally fitted to power the main cargo pumps.

 

Having joined the ship in Milford Haven I went down below to have a look around and met the second engineer. After a brief chat he went to start one of the Paxman powered pumps. When it started and never having heard the sound it made come from a piece of machinery that wasn't going to disintegrate, I headed straight for the engine room ladder.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 02:33 by Tankerman
spelling sisters as susters.

[Halvarras]

10 hours ago, Fredo said:

Hi, how about a model of D830 as it was fitted with a Paxman engine and Mekydro transmissions. Thanks Fred

 

OK Fred, since you asked.... !

 

I have a relatively small collection of (G)WR steam locos set around 1961 and decided to add a few contemporaneous (is that the right word?!) diesels - Silver Fox D63xx & D6xx/D8xx Warship. When it came to a D8xx since my blue Mainline model had to be fully repainted anyway I thought I might as well do something a bit different (in retrospect I now wish I'd gone full disc headcode conversion since I had to fully strip this bodyshell, but never mind).

 

Comparison with the Bachmann Class 43 shows the slightly different positions of the offset engine exhaust ports, as I mentioned previously by my estimation D830's were 15" further back and 6" further inboard. And yes, I made them round! I did this about 12 years ago and in the meantime have learned more about these locos which means D830's roof is still wrong in a couple of respects:

- The small square apertures between exhausts and roof fan grilles were I believe exhaust ports for the Maybach engine pre-heaters - the NBL loco's MANs didn't require pre-heating so these vents are absent on the maroon one. I now don't think D830's Paxmans required pre-heating either so these should have been removed along with the central exhausts.

- The centre roof panel is pure D818 'Glory' with its unique Spanner Mark 3 horizontal boiler (all of the Westerns got these, presumably as a result of this trial). The Class 43's layout was common to D813-17/19-32, all fitted with Stones boilers. As you can tell, 'de-Gloryfying' the Mainline/ Bachmann Class 42 involves removing the lower right meshed rectangular vent entirely and opening up the riveted panel (with small hole at one end) on the opposite side, as per the Class 43.

Since this is all within the grey roof area I suppose it would be easy enough to correct these and repaint..........

 

This model has a bit of a story behind it. It came to me as long ago as January 1990 as part of a job lot - non-runner 827 'Kelly' in blue. For some reason this one's full yellow ends decided to part company with the body, so it got set aside. The five Mainline-on-Lima Warships I mentioned a couple of days ago went to exhibitions between 1991 and 2005 and I was sometimes asked how easy the pairing was, so I'd take this body and a spare Lima underframe to demonstrate. After 2005 it went back in the bits box with its duff chassis, until 2012 when it got resurrected to accompany the Silver Fox pair. I managed to get the Mainline chassis running with extra pickups, new traction tyres (no idea how I came to have those in stock!) and a pair of Peak gears replacing the split originals, and resprayed it as shown, although it was of course still rather noisy! Not long after I happened to find a new Bachmann chassis (ex-D823 in plain green) at a show for £37.50, and after some thought about whether I really wanted to attempt the 'blend', grabbed it just as the trader was packing up to go home! One thing which quickly became clear was that the D823 underframe was much darker and glossier than my paintwork so I decided to sandwich the Bachmann chassis between the Mainline body and underframe. This was not a simple task, but the chassis is now attached to the body by a central screw behind each buffer beam, into a ledge of thick plasticard glued across the inside of the nose and backed by a wodge of Miliput epoxy filler. Much later on I was very grateful to have that spare glossy D823 underframe, but that's another story.....!

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

5 minutes ago, Halvarras said:

contemporaneous (is that the right word?!)

 

Right or wrong, you've won word of the day!

 

Mike.

[Southernman46]

Someone really really needs to do the carriage washing plant washed-to-death, almost white with blue / maroon / green patchy paint as an option.

[Halvarras]

6 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Right or wrong, you've won word of the day!

 

Mike.

 

Thank you Mike - the spell checker didn't flag it as an error anyway!

 

5 hours ago, Southernman46 said:

Someone really really needs to do the carriage washing plant washed-to-death, almost white with blue / maroon / green patchy paint as an option.

 

You must be talking about D826 'Jupiter' early summer 1971, just before Laira gave it a desperately needed repaint for its last few weeks in traffic! (Somebody has accepted the weathering challenge on the 'emgauge70s' website, superb job!) Was never maroon though. My nomination for a battered maroon example would have to be D828 (less than) 'Magnificent' in 1969, its nose ends were so worn that one pictorial book claims its small yellow panel was showing through a full yellow end - D828 never received these, the panel was showing against an expanse of exposed primer!

[Roy Langridge]

9 hours ago, Halvarras said:

 

Thank you Mike - the spell checker didn't flag it as an error anyway!

 

A perfectly good word and used in context. Nice to see the English language being used in a manner not constrained to words of one syllable. 
 

Roy

[Enterprisingwestern]

3 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

A perfectly good word and used in context. Nice to see the English language being used in a manner not constrained to words of one syllable. 
 

Roy

 

Huh?

 

Mike.

[Halvarras]

8 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

A perfectly good word and used in context. Nice to see the English language being used in a manner not constrained to words of one syllable. 
 

Roy

 

Many thanks Roy, and for the confirmation of context (I wasn't certain but went for it 😁!)

 

[Ray M]

Any one mentioned 2 or 4 holed wheels yet ?

[Strathwood]

On 17/10/2024 at 03:48, Halvarras said:

 

Thank you Mike - the spell checker didn't flag it as an error anyway!

 

 

You must be talking about D826 'Jupiter' early summer 1971, just before Laira gave it a desperately needed repaint for its last few weeks in traffic! (Somebody has accepted the weathering challenge on the 'emgauge70s' website, superb job!) Was never maroon though. My nomination for a battered maroon example would have to be D828 (less than) 'Magnificent' in 1969, its nose ends were so worn that one pictorial book claims its small yellow panel was showing through a full yellow end - D828 never received these, the panel was showing against an expanse of exposed primer!

My vote for the most distressed maroon Warship goes to D867 Zenith.

 

 

Kevin

[Dunsignalling]

6 minutes ago, Strathwood said:

My vote for the most distressed maroon Warship goes to D867 Zenith.

 

 

Kevin

No photo, but my recollection of D813 'Diadem' on Waterloo-Exeter services was at least four times worse than that!

[Ray M]

I`ll go with pimple head at BR

Taken from pinterest.

[Halvarras]

I think my vote still goes to D828 - here's the only photo of 'Magnificent' (🤣) I'm aware of which shows it in the condition I recall, a G.F. Gillham shot from the  Bradford Barton book on the Class 42/43s:

And the caption (on the opposite page):

Not only did D828 never receive full yellow ends - the other end just visible looks the same - but TTBOMK local maintenance depots were not authorised to do this kind of work in the 1960s - union objections? (826/68 and 1660 suggest this changed during 1971). Granted D867 and D862 above look worse down the sides but this is only the first month of 1969, D828 had been repainted maroon by March '66 so got into this state in less than 3 years!! (Note that D862's nose is beginning to go the same way......) D828's middle OHLE warning flash is in a non-standard position - details details!

 

To date the only OO model of 828 has been produced by Lima, in the final blue livery it eventually received to cover up this decrepitude (to which I contributed by picking off a lump of maroon-coated Prestolith filler - it's still somewhere in the loft......)

 

What's the opposite of 'Magnificent' - 'Appalling'?! 😃