How did Pway gangs keep the track pristine?

[Olive_Green1923]

As we know, our modern railways are very unkempt compared to how they used to be.

 

When you look at the state of the lines today, you realise there must have been a real consistent and concerted effort by railway staff to maintain the tracks a hundred years ago, not to mention there was double the amount of track and stations than there is now.

 

So my questions are: What is the typical manner in which P-way gangs maintained the railway? Was it all day, every day, going out on to different sections of track to tidy the ballast, pick weeds, trim hedges etc?
 

Were certain gangs allocated specifically on to these jobs all the time and different gangs did physical maintenance of track, points, signals etc?

 

Or was keeping the track tidy more of an apprentice / junior person’s task?

 

Also, when it came to stations, did station staff routinely muck in to help maintain the track in and around the platforms? Or did they just focus on buildings and platforms?

 

Finally, do we know roughly when this high level of pride / way of doing things began to deteriorate? Around nationalisation presumably?

 

Cheers.

[Mol_PMB]

The Permanent Way Institute published many editions of a book entitled "British Railway Track Design, Construction and Maintenance"; I have several editions including a fairly early 1950s one, and the more modern editions which are now in multiple volumes.

The older ones cover the range of seasonal tasks in some detail. Different jobs were tacked throughout the year according to the seasons and the weather. Generally, a gang was allocated to a length of track and did all the maintenance tasks required on that length (maybe a few miles) whether it was knocking in keys, clearing drains or cutting hay.

[spamcan61]

A few somewhat relevant old films on Youtube:-

 

 

 

 

[Hibelroad]

Lengthsmen, who would be responsible for a length of track ( 3 miles ?). They would walk the length daily, carry out minor repairs and report anything requiring more serious attention. At the NRM there is an elaborate “Prize Length” sign, presumably awarded to the best maintained section of track so there would have been competition between lengthsmen to win the award. Obviously many men would need to be employed to cover the whole system so at some point the job must have been phased out. 

[e30ftw]

As mentioned above P way gangs of old would be assigned a section of track to look after and maintain. This took a lot more man power and over the years the numbers have been cut back to just the bare bones,  track patrols do still occur but more is been done by measurement trains. Most work is done on nights with contractors employed on bigger renewals.  Their is a specific department called "off track"(who are also under staffed) who look after the vegetation and line side fencing  but since privatization the jungle has spread like wild fire

[Michael Hodgson]

2 hours ago, Olive_Green1923 said:

How did Pway gangs keep the track pristine?

 

By working hard!

 

The only member of my family who worked on the railways my Unlce Billy.  He had been a coal miner (also hard physical work!) for many years but when the pit closed he took a PWay job working on the Newcastle-Carlisle line and Alston branch. 

 

There was less general litter and vandalism in those days.

[bécasse]

One thing that one never sees modelled is the result of a controlled burn of sections of railway cutting or embankment sides, a task that was done regularly to keep the vegetation there under control and thus minimising the risk of it being set alight by "sparks" from passing steam locomotives.

 

The "sparks" were usually small pieces of still-burning coal ejected through the chimney of locos working hard.

[Liddy]

 

 

I find these films very instructive

[DCB]

4 hours ago, Olive_Green1923 said:

Finally, do we know roughly when this high level of pride / way of doing things began to deteriorate? Around nationalisation presumably?

Cheers.

It remained until 1961 at least. The MSWJR  through Chedworth beautifully maintained until the rack was lifted.  Photos of the final train recovering abandoned wagons often show immaculate trackwork and the track lined up by eye was arrow straight and level. I was looking at a almighty kink near Goathland earlier.  Sadly dogs hind leg covered by herbs is the new norm.

[Olive_Green1923]

2 hours ago, bécasse said:

One thing that one never sees modelled is the result of a controlled burn of sections of railway cutting or embankment sides, a task that was done regularly to keep the vegetation there under control and thus minimising the risk of it being set alight by "sparks" from passing steam locomotives.

 

The "sparks" were usually small pieces of still-burning coal ejected through the chimney of locos working hard.

I seem to recall that Pete Waterman’s Lemington Spa layout has this on the section of track that enters a tunnel (the stretch that gets photographed the most). I recall him saying in a video that the burning of lineside grass is very rarely modelled, despite it being reasonably common, hence his decision to include it.

 

 

Edited 19 hours ago by Olive_Green1923

[PaulRhB]

I’d also say the weed killers used were a tad more potent in the earlier days. We still warn the maintenance guys when weedkilling trains are running but it’s noticeable that modern concoctions in the last twenty years need ideal conditions to be effective. Spray on a rainy night and you see no effect. 
At quiet lever boxes the Signalman might do some weeding, I certainly did at Marchwood to keep the rodding and wire runs clear and easy to pull. 

[Phil Bullock]

20 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

I’d also say the weed killers used were a tad more potent in the earlier days. We still warn the maintenance guys when weedkilling trains are running but it’s noticeable that modern concoctions in the last twenty years need ideal conditions to be effective. Spray on a rainy night and you see no effect. 
At quiet lever boxes the Signalman might do some weeding, I certainly did at Marchwood to keep the rodding and wire runs clear and easy to pull. 

And there are now areas adjacent to sensitive areas that cannot be sprayed. The Golden Vally line between Stroudcand Sapperton is a case in point… it’s a jungle. Even has Llamas living next to it! 

Edited 18 hours ago by Phil Bullock

[Michael Hodgson]

35 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

And there are now areas adjacent to sensitive areas that cannot be sprayed. The Golden Vally line between Stroudcand Sapperton is a case in point… it’s a jungle. Even has Llamas living next to it! 

Llama dung is probably a good oeganic fertiliser.

[micknich2003]

4 hours ago, bécasse said:

One thing that one never sees modelled is the result of a controlled burn of sections of railway cutting or embankment sides, a task that was done regularly to keep the vegetation there under control and thus minimising the risk of it being set alight by "sparks" from passing steam locomotives.

 

The "sparks" were usually small pieces of still-burning coal ejected through the chimney of locos working hard.

The last "Controlled Burning" I recall was c1982, I was then signalman at Hessle Haven, near Hull.

[kevinlms]

13 hours ago, Olive_Green1923 said:

As we know, our modern railways are very unkempt compared to how they used to be.

 

 

 

Finally, do we know roughly when this high level of pride / way of doing things began to deteriorate? Around nationalisation presumably?

 

Cheers.

An assumption that it's just down to laziness or a particular event.

 

Fact is, budgets are entirely different today and probably management is more top heavy than it's ever been, with lots of bonuses milking off any funds.

[Southernman46]

Just a few ramblings from my head about when I had to bother with such things ..................

 

It's about culture - instilling in your PW staff that scrap is brought back at the end of the job too........... 

 

i.e when changing a rail - make sure the old pads, clips  etc go in a 1 tonne ballast bag on the trolley or lineside with the scrap rail for collection then one every period an RRV with trailer and the scrap is collected - over time it makes a difference especially with the large scale use of EG47 sleepers with fastclips 

 

Take your used disc saw blades with you - don't chuck them up the bank ....................

 

Ragging the welding team to put thermite weld slag scrap in a can & remove it at the job end and take the cardboard boxes & wrappings etc too .............

 

Teaching your lubrication gang (and this was one of the few time I have actually shouted at staff in the office) not to chuck the empty grease tins up / down the bank after filling the machines ...................... 

 

Take the broken fishplates with you off-site

 

Technology - e.g. no piles of rotting ESR / TSR board batteries now ....................

 

Not letting your track deteriorate into a series of unsightly wet-beds cos that does make it look shite - the Section Manager at Yeovil Junction needs to take a good look outside his office window 🙄 and on mere Category 3 track too

 

Make yourself as irritating as possible with the off-track Manager so he cuts back your vegetation to make you shut up & go away

 

It's not hard - it just needs passion and effort ......................................... and yes the doing away of length gangs was a mistake - efficient but- that level of pride & ownership cannot be quantified & put on a balance sheet but is priceless and a sad loss. I look at the current state of my old sections on the SWML and it breaks my heart daily to see the god-awful mess that is developing now.

Edited 11 hours ago by Southernman46

[The Stationmaster]

16 hours ago, e30ftw said:

As mentioned above P way gangs of old would be assigned a section of track to look after and maintain. This took a lot more man power and over the years the numbers have been cut back to just the bare bones,  track patrols do still occur but more is been done by measurement trains. Most work is done on nights with contractors employed on bigger renewals.  Their is a specific department called "off track"(who are also under staffed) who look after the vegetation and line side fencing  but since privatization the jungle has spread like wild fire

The jungle was already getting well established long before privatisation  for two reasons - the abolition of local PerWay gangs who had also looked after the lineside on their patch and the end of steam traction which permitted lack of attention to lineside embankments as the fire risk had gone.  

 

It was interesting to note the impact of the changes on punctuality and train performance as leaf fall became a hindrance, and then worsened to a problem from the period starting about 15-20 years after steam running had ceased

 

It has got worse since privatisation but it was pretty bad in some places long before that happened.  Southerman26 has my sympathy because those of us not in the Civils watched it happen gradually before our eyes as we tried to run trains and saw the deteriorating railway every day.  

 

And seeing some relaying in the Thames Valley the other day I thought great - looks like they're going to lay polythene sheeting to prevent wet beds and clay rising and pumping.  Just a shame (shambles?) there was no sign of sand to blanket it and that means the top ballast will compress on it and cut through the plastic - old lessons lost yet again.

 

PS Sorry to hear about Yeovil Jcn - my old pal Dick Sloman who was the local PWME in the 1970s and kept the route in great condition as far as money allowed will be spinning in his grave.

[2750Papyrus]

5 hours ago, Southernman46 said:

Just a few ramblings from my head about when I had to bother with such things ..................

 

It's about culture - instilling in your PW staff that scrap is brought back at the end of the job too........... 

 

i.e when changing a rail - make sure the old pads, clips  etc go in a 1 tonne ballast bag on the trolley or lineside with the scrap rail for collection then one every period an RRV with trailer and the scrap is collected - over time it makes a difference especially with the large scale use of EG47 sleepers with fastclips 

 

Take your used disc saw blades with you - don't chuck them up the bank ....................

 

Ragging the welding team to put thermite weld slag scrap in a can & remove it at the job end and take the cardboard boxes & wrappings etc too .............

 

Teaching your lubrication gang (and this was one of the few time I have actually shouted at staff in the office) not to chuck the empty grease tins up / down the bank after filling the machines ...................... 

 

Take the broken fishplates with you off-site

 

Technology - e.g. no piles of rotting ESR / TSR board batteries now ....................

 

Not letting your track deteriorate into a series of unsightly wet-beds cos that does make it look shite - the Section Manager at Yeovil Junction needs to take a good look outside his office window 🙄 and on mere Category 3 track too

 

Make yourself as irritating as possible with the off-track Manager so he cuts back your vegetation to make you shut up & go away

 

It's not hard - it just needs passion and effort ......................................... and yes the doing away of length gangs was a mistake - efficient but- that level of pride & ownership cannot be quantified & put on a balance sheet but is priceless and a sad loss. I look at the current state of my old sections on the SWML and it breaks my heart daily to see the god-awful mess that is developing now.

Very often, when I hear a spokesperson blaming public body shortfalls on a shortage of resources, I think that the major problems lie in culture and leadership (which differs from "management").

[Morello Cherry]

I am not sure it was all totally prestine everywhere, all the time. I think photographers tended to pick the best locations. It's a bit like it never seems to have rained before 1970 if we go by photographers or railway art.

 

I tend to think that there were plenty of areas which were pretty grotty. I am fairly sure the lineside through Bethnal Green or Devonport was not a vision of bucolic loveliness. There is in I think the LMS 150 book an excerpt where someone is talking about how you would never stable coaches in certain areas of Glasgow because when you came back in the morning all the lightbulbs would have been stolen and the compartments used for sex, and tales of coal trains being raided when slowly climbing gradients.

 

I tend to think the big change is post-WW1. From reading accident reports where trackwork is an issue, you start to increasingly hear gangers complaining that they are short staffed and can't keep up. You only really ever hear these complaints on the poorer minor lines before 1918.

 

Certainly where I lived in the 1980s there was always so much stuff left behind after anywork.

 

While we complain about the state of lineside vegetation etc, at least for the most part stations are slightly better places to spend a summer's evening. Until the demise of the HSTs, places like Paddington could be really ripe after a hot day as what was left on the track by the toilets was left to fester. I don't imagine that a terminus in the 1900s was any nicer.

Edited 5 hours ago by Morello Cherry

[Halvarras]

20 hours ago, Hibelroad said:

Lengthsmen, who would be responsible for a length of track ( 3 miles ?). They would walk the length daily, carry out minor repairs and report anything requiring more serious attention. At the NRM there is an elaborate “Prize Length” sign, presumably awarded to the best maintained section of track so there would have been competition between lengthsmen to win the award. Obviously many men would need to be employed to cover the whole system so at some point the job must have been phased out. 

 

Back in the 1960s I can recall seeing a trackside 'Prize Length' sign from a passing train on the Cornish main line somewhere east of Truro. It was brown with cream lettering and memory suggests it was enamel finish steel as per the station signage still extant at the time. I had no idea what it meant back then and many years would pass before I found out!

[Oldddudders]

It is my distinct impression that the 'traditional' method of looking after the track changed dramatically when Continuous Welded Rail became the norm. The high cost of installation was justified by staff savings. From the day that the CWR was in use, with no keys to knock back in etc, there was little reason to have a daily walking inspection, and the demise of the local gang, or at least a dramatic reduction in size, meant that many ancillary tasks were simply dropped.

 

As noted, the PWI, founded 1884, is the established professional body enshrining the best practices of track design and maintenance, its stated mission being :

 

"Recognising the engineering challenges in railway infrastructure; sharing knowledge, solutions, and best practice; and fostering their adoption through collaboration, enabling positive change."

 

The current CEO, Stephen Barber, former Area Civil Engineer at Preston, was my client/boss during BRIS Privatisation. 

[Mol_PMB]

5 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

It is my distinct impression that the 'traditional' method of looking after the track changed dramatically when Continuous Welded Rail became the norm. The high cost of installation was justified by staff savings. From the day that the CWR was in use, with no keys to knock back in etc, there was little reason to have a daily walking inspection, and the demise of the local gang, or at least a dramatic reduction in size, meant that many ancillary tasks were simply dropped.

 

As noted, the PWI, founded 1884, is the established professional body enshrining the best practices of track design and maintenance, its stated mission being :

 

"Recognising the engineering challenges in railway infrastructure; sharing knowledge, solutions, and best practice; and fostering their adoption through collaboration, enabling positive change."

 

The current CEO, Stephen Barber, former Area Civil Engineer at Preston, was my client/boss during BRIS Privatisation. 

I did a lot of work with Stephen during his subsequent time with the Underground.

 

I do think the monitoring technology hasn't quite caught up with the move away from boots on the ground. The ganger familiar with his length will spot things that are unusual - perhaps a drain a bit fuller than usual, cracks in a retaining wall, altered flow in a river, or a small bank slip, that provide an early warning of something more serious. The monitoring technology might do a great job of measuring track geometry, rail cracks or structure clearances, but it can only look at what it's been designed to look at. There is now some use of AI to assess video of lineside features, but whilst it can tell the difference between a tree and a wall I don't think it's quite there with the more detailed stuff. A lot of the more serious incidents affecting NR over the past few years have been related to earthworks, and as we head towards a more extreme climate that's likely to get worse.