Come on Ivor!

[009 micro modeller]

3 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Good job the tender's there or it would fall over backwards !😁

Are you suggesting that Ivor should actually be an 0-4-2T for better balance?

[Wickham Green too]

Maybe fit a second pair of buffers at the front for ballast - like S&D 41 ! 😉

[Audens Pledge]

On 04/10/2024 at 15:08, Mol_PMB said:

Now just imagine a conversion from tender engine to tank (as with the Furness 0-4-0s) and Ivor becomes quite plausible.

When are people going to start back-converting the Ivor chassis to S&D 41?

 

Wait, do we actually know what engine it is? I was under the impression from the forum I found it on that it was unidentified.

[Jeremy Cumberland]

1 hour ago, Audens Pledge said:

 

Wait, do we actually know what engine it is? I was under the impression from the forum I found it on that it was unidentified.

It's a mystery, but it must be quite an early design, before railway engineers had worked out all the details of what a locomotive should look like. Unless new information comes to light, Stockton and Darlington Railway locomotive No. 41 Dart, built by William Hackworth in 1839, is about as close as we are likely to get, which might suggest that Ivor was also built by Hackworth. Set against this, Ivor doesn't look much like other Hackworth engines, but nor does Dart, for that matter.

 

Probably the most obviously remarkable feature about Ivor is the way the cab forms part of the locomotive frame, with the footplate and coal bunker suspended from it. It seems entirely possible to me that Ivor was the first locomotive in the world with a cab, and the engineer wasn't at all sure about how to go about designing one. The top left hand corner of Wales probably has more rain than Liverpool, Manchester, Stockton and Darlington all added together, so whereas a cab wasn't needed in the balmy climes of the North East of England, it was deemed essential in the North West of Wales.

Edited October 8 by Jeremy Cumberland

[Audens Pledge]

44 minutes ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

It seems entirely possible to me that Ivor was the first locomotive in the world with a cab, and the engineer wasn't at all sure about how to go about designing one. 

 

That's a point I've never actually considered. When did cabbed locomotives first appear? (Not including Ivor 😃)

[Pete Haitch]

Dear RMwebbers,

 

If I happened to be building a simple layout for one DCC loco only, and therefore had need of a DCC controller that would operate all loco functions (inc sound), but not cost the same as a summer month in Merioneth; what would you recommend? 

 

Sincerely,

 

Pete

[PaulRhB]

24 minutes ago, Pete Haitch said:

Dear RMwebbers,

 

If I happened to be building a simple layout for one DCC loco only, and therefore had need of a DCC controller that would operate all loco functions (inc sound), but not cost the same as a summer month in Merioneth; what would you recommend? 

 

Sincerely,

 

Pete

Piko Smartcontrol light, or the older NCE Powercab but less functions available. 

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

... The top left hand corner of Wales probably has more rain than ... Manchester, ...

To misquote the late Ian Paisley "Never, NEVER, NEVER" ......... allegedly.

[Dagworth]

53 minutes ago, Pete Haitch said:

Dear RMwebbers,

 

If I happened to be building a simple layout for one DCC loco only, and therefore had need of a DCC controller that would operate all loco functions (inc sound), but not cost the same as a summer month in Merioneth; what would you recommend? 

 

Sincerely,

 

Pete

If you have a laptop and smartphone then add a SPROG and JMRI

[Jeremy Cumberland]

43 minutes ago, Audens Pledge said:

 

That's a point I've never actually considered. When did cabbed locomotives first appear? (Not including Ivor 😃)

Not necessarily the first, but South Durham and Lancashire Union Railway's 160 Brougham and 161 Lowther are early examples, being built in 1860 by Robert Stephenson & Co. There's a photograph here: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/559642691202737727/

 

It's interesting to note that when the SD&LUR ordered more locomotives in 1862, these were built without cabs, apparently because the crews didn't like them. The northern Pennines has some wild and dramatic scenery, and I expect the cabs got in the way of the driver and fireman enjoying the view.

 

Ivor's rear coal bunker might be of even greater historical significance, but this, along with the side tanks, might be a later addition. I think we can assume the load-bearing cab is original though, given that the main frames don't extend behind the firebox.

[Mol_PMB]

Note the large amount of daylight under the cab on Shannon:

George England's locos for the Festiniog also had their mainframes ahead of the firebox, with only the cab support frame behind that - traction forces were carried through firebox itself. 

 

The old picture of S&DR 41 (assumed) appears to show a similar arrangement with daylight below the cab.

[Steven B]

Will there be a M&LRTCoL teapot and mug set released with the model?

 

Steven B

[BMacdermott]

Well....I have the mug!😀

 

Brian

 

 

 

[Audens Pledge]

Ok, a little bit of fictional history for Ivor:

 

The locomotive that would later become known as 'Ivor the Engine' started life in 1839, built by Timothy Hackworth for the Stockton & Darlington Railway as a tender locomotive, no. 41 'Dart'. It participated in the 50th anniversary of the railway in 1875, and was withdrawn in 1880.

 

Following withdrawal, 'Dart' was sold to Isaac Watt Boulton, and went to his famous siding where it was rebuilt to tank engine form. A pair of water tanks were mounted on top of the splashers, to keep as much weight on the front set driving wheels as possible, now it had lost its tender. To this end, the cab and bunker were constructed as lightly as possible. To avoid a heavy firebox causing the locomotive to tip backwards, a launch type boiler was fitted, keeping all the weight on the driving wheels.

 

After the rebuild was completed, the locomotive was hired to the Merioneth & Llantisilly Rail Traction Company Limited, to build their line in the top left hand corner of Wales, which was possibly a conversion of a horse-drawn tramway or waggonway. When Boulton's Siding closed in 1898, the locomotive fell into the ownership of the M&L permanently and continued to run the line.

 

The line was small enough to avoid grouping in 1923, but came perilously close to nationalisation in 1947, though the aristocratic Mrs Porty purchased the line to keep it locally controlled. 

 

In the 70s, however, traffic began to decline, and the line closed. Fortunately, the locomotive of the Merioneth & Llantisilly Rail Traction Company Limited (by now known as 'Ivor') was saved for preservation, and was sent to the Llangollen Railway, where it still resides today.

 

Depending on your perspective, 'Ivor' may be the worlds oldest operational steam locomotive, being built as 'Dart' in 1839, or was built in 1880 from 'Dart' parts.

 

(Phew, that was a lot. Now I've made all that up, God help me if Rapido ever releases Ivor as a standalone model...)

Edited October 15 by Audens Pledge

[Mol_PMB]

1 hour ago, Audens Pledge said:

…

(Phew, that was a lot. Now I've made all that up, God help me if Rapido ever releases Ivor as a standalone model...)

Wouldn’t a backdated Ivor be an interesting addition to the very early steam locos such as Lion (other manufacturers’ options also available). 

[MarkSG]

3 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

Wouldn’t a backdated Ivor be an interesting addition to the very early steam locos such as Lion (other manufacturers’ options also available). 

 

I suspect that Ivor wouldn't really work as a product outside the fictional universe of the books and TV programmes. Modelling era 1 using RTR is still a challenge, but if you're going to do it then you're going to want models of locos that actually existed, not imaginary ones. 

[PaulRhB]

23 minutes ago, MarkSG said:

suspect that Ivor wouldn't really work as a product outside the fictional universe of the books and TV programmes.

 

Fictional?!? Heretic!  Ivor in 1970 

[Nova Scotian]

I'll be holding out for future re-runs with new livery options.

Mine's a TFW black (with the red roof, yellow lining), modern OHLE flashes. Will come in a pack with a KeolisAmey 143 Pacer and a cardboard cutout of a politician announcing fleet renewal. Also cardboard cutouts of a couple of irate passengers that couldn't see out the window of the newly decaled coach with advertising covering the windows.

[Hroth]

6 minutes ago, Nova Scotian said:

I'll be holding out for future re-runs with new livery options.

Mine's a TFW black (with the red roof, yellow lining), modern OHLE flashes. Will come in a pack with a KeolisAmey 143 Pacer and a cardboard cutout of a politician announcing fleet renewal. Also cardboard cutouts of a couple of irate passengers that couldn't see out the window of the newly decaled coach with advertising covering the windows.

 

TfW? 🤔 That would be prototypically non-functional...  🙂

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, Nova Scotian said:

... Also cardboard cutouts of a couple of irate passengers that couldn't see out the window of the newly decaled coach with advertising covering the windows.

You might have to imagine them -- as you'd never see them inside ! 😎