Which route would you choose?

[Wickham Green too]

Still happens : "The next station is Bromley South" is announced when leaving Rochester ( as an example ) and people get bags down or stand by the doorway for twenty five minutes or so !

[KeithMacdonald]

It may have been in 1975, I had a return trip from Devon to Pitlochry for a friend's wedding in Pitlochry. I can remember the wedding reception quite clearly, and staying at a hotel in Pitlochry, and being surprised by the brown water that came out of the taps.  The strange thing is I can remember nothing at all about the journey there and back, not the train or even the route. Maybe it was an overnight journey and I slept through it all? But I can't even remember changing trains in Edinburgh. And no, I didn't get puddled at the reception. Very strange.

[black and decker boy]

Would it not be similar to today?

1) ease of getting to the departure station ( which will be driven by where you live and where your local branch terminated)

2) ultimate destination and proximity / ease of connection & transfer

3) access to ticket office / vendor

4) price

5) timetable & journey time 

 

[The Stationmaster]

On 15/08/2024 at 17:28, Artless Bodger said:

As a student in Reading, going home for the weekend, there was the obvious, fastest, choice, Reading to Paddington, Circle line, Victoria to Maidstone East.

In later years, while M&D were still alive, when visiting I had several options, depending on time and whether I wanted to cross London. On a Saturday morning while the underground was quiet, via Paddington, then Bakerloo and Victoria lines to Victoria and ME.

Coming back though to avoid crowds in London, especially on the underground, I usually went Maidstone West to Tonbridge, then Redhill and Reading (could change at Wokingham to a SWT electric to get off at Earley 25 min walk home and avoid the nightime crowds in Reading).

For a while, returning via London there was a fast service from ME to London Bridge and Cannon Street, change LB to Waterloo East, then Waterloo to Earley.

Using Paddington I could also use St Pancras to Strood via the CTRL, change to the Medway Valley line to MW or Barracks, and vv for the return.

And if I wanted to dawdle, or engineering works intervened, MW to Strood or Tonbridge, then to London Bridge by either route and via Waterloo. Once I even returned via Tonbridge via Redhill and London (due to a failed train blocking the line around Sevenoaks). 

Once only on a Saturday morning, Reading to Dover train (just before it was withdrawn) via North Pole, change at Ashford and backtrack to ME.

Overall I think I tried virtually every route.

Oh, and engineering works diversions via East Brixton and the Battersea low level lines, and Beckenham Junction to Victoria via Crystal Palace. And not forgetting some Vic - ME trains went via the Catford Loop. Phew! 

Oh no you didn't (try every route).    The Signalmen's strikes in 1994 lead me to some rather unusual routes between Reading and the place in London which I needed to get - Waterloo.

The quickest route normally was via Paddington and the Bakerloo Line although I occasionally travelled via Wokingham and Ascot for bit of variety.   During the strikes I also did Reading - Guildford - Waterloo a couple of times and Reading - Basingstoke - Waterloo.

 

In times of perturbation other routes were used because they were all that was available.  On the day of the Southall collision my train from Paddington was emptied out at Ealing Broadway so I took a 'bus to Richmond and train from there to Reading - just beating the mad rush of passengers sent across from Paddington.  On the day of the Ladbroke Grove collision the train i was on was set back to Slough and everybody out - I advised those desperate to get to London to go via Windsor, walk  down from Central to Riverside and thence to Waterloo (I decided I could just as easily WFH so went there instead)

 

Ah and many years ago I did Reading to London via Maidenhead, High Wycombe, and thence to Marylebone - alas a long lost option never to re-emerge.  Alas I was too young at the time to enjoy the delights of the late night/early morning passenger and newspaper train from London Bridge to Reading - the last survivor of trains on that route.

 

[The Stationmaster]

15 minutes ago, black and decker boy said:

Would it not be similar to today?

1) ease of getting to the departure station ( which will be driven by where you live and where your local branch terminated)

2) ultimate destination and proximity / ease of connection & transfer

3) access to ticket office / vendor

4) price

5) timetable & journey time 

 

And add -

Comfort or potential crowding of the trains on various alternative routes.

[Siberian Snooper]

When travelling from Kidderminster to London, these days I prefer to change at Moor Street and go to Marylebone, usually plenty of room.

 

 

[Kylestrome]

On 14/08/2024 at 21:59, 55020 said:

What, you mean I can leave?  Damn, how come it's taken this long for someone to tell me.  😂

 

You can check out any time you like but you can never leave...

[Compound2632]

4 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

 go via Windsor, walk  down from Central to Riverside and thence to Waterloo

 

In my Reading - Teddington commuting days, I did once get desperate enough to do that, though the other way round - going home, not going in!

 

I did once jump on the train at Teddington, having just got to the station bang on time, only to discover I was on a late-running Shepperton train. That led to an interesting and never-to-be-repeated walk from Fulwell to Whitton!

[Artless Bodger]

4 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Oh no you didn't (try every route).    The Signalmen's strikes in 1994 lead me to some rather unusual routes between Reading and the place in London which I needed to get - Waterloo.

The quickest route normally was via Paddington and the Bakerloo Line although I occasionally travelled via Wokingham and Ascot for bit of variety.   During the strikes I also did Reading - Guildford - Waterloo a couple of times and Reading - Basingstoke - Waterloo.

 

In times of perturbation other routes were used because they were all that was available.  On the day of the Southall collision my train from Paddington was emptied out at Ealing Broadway so I took a 'bus to Richmond and train from there to Reading - just beating the mad rush of passengers sent across from Paddington.  On the day of the Ladbroke Grove collision the train i was on was set back to Slough and everybody out - I advised those desperate to get to London to go via Windsor, walk  down from Central to Riverside and thence to Waterloo (I decided I could just as easily WFH so went there instead)

 

Ah and many years ago I did Reading to London via Maidenhead, High Wycombe, and thence to Marylebone - alas a long lost option never to re-emerge.  Alas I was too young at the time to enjoy the delights of the late night/early morning passenger and newspaper train from London Bridge to Reading - the last survivor of trains on that route.

 

OK, admittedly my claim was open to challenge from those with a better knowledge of the possible routes than mine, a lot of my exotics have been due to engineering work or perturbations.

I have managed Earley - Bracknell, broken rail - taxi to Wokingham, ticket not valid via Reading but advised to go to Guildford, then to Waterloo. Also one trip back from Kent, due to engineering works between Guildford and Wokingham we went Guildford to Weybridge(?) then Virginia Water reverse and on to Reading. 

Reading or Earley to Portsmouth Harbour and return for an IOW day out has offered a number of interesting routings too.

I did visit relatives in Cippenham once from Maidstone via Waterloo, Windsor and Slough, as I had a SR runabout ticket that week. If I'd realised I could have used Burnham station rather than a bus from Slough.

[figworthy]

8 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Still happens : "The next station is Bromley South" is announced when leaving Rochester ( as an example ) and people get bags down or stand by the doorway for twenty five minutes or so !

 

Going somewhat off topic, however :

 

Many years ago, I was on a train from Doncaster into Kings Cross.  It the train was due into the Cross at x:25, then at x-1:15 the two (rather noisy) passengers opposite me decided that as arrival was imminent, they had better get their bags and make a move towards the exit.   Was I wrong to resist the temptation to point out that they were being a bit hasty ?  (answers on a postcard to the usual address).

 

Adrian

[Tom Burnham]

On 16/08/2024 at 14:34, Compound2632 said:

 

The Great Eastern ran Cambridge expresses from St Pancras; I would have expected that to be the favoured route at least pre-grouping or pre-Great War, St Pancras being more favourably laid out for corralling royalty.

According to Gwen Raverat's memoir, 'Period Piece', around the turn of the last century St Pancras was considered much superior to Liverpool Street among Cambridge dons and their wives.

[Tom Burnham]

On 15/08/2024 at 08:13, 40152 said:

There’s life south of Stonehaven? Crivens! Thought trains just fell off the edge once they headed south from Aberdeen 😉

 

 

Many years ago I saw a headline in the Press & Journal that referred to Stonehaven as "down south".  

[Nearholmer]

Judging by posters, adverts in Bradshaw etc, the railway commercial bods worked-out early that different customers had different wants (market segmentation), so they were simultaneously blasting claimed-lowest ticket prices at one lot, while rattling-on at great length about dining cars, scenery, speed, and safety to another lot. Another big marketing thing for the holiday trade was not having to change trains, so pushing cross-country through services, and through coaches, as a better alternative than crossing central London.

Edited August 18 by Nearholmer

[melmoth]

9 hours ago, Tom Burnham said:

Many years ago I saw a headline in the Press & Journal that referred to Stonehaven as "down south".  

 

In a similar vein, there was for a number of years a placard fixed to a road sign at Bincombe, between Weymouth and Dorchester, which said "Welcome To The North".

[Morello Cherry]

When a student and travelling from the South East to Plymouth it was cheaper to travel via the South West and to change in Exeter than it was to go via Reading. And tbh as it was still 47s on the XC, an XC along the seafront was always nice.

 

The downside was that the 159s from Waterloo would always be pretty rammed until after Yeovil. What had been MK2 9 coaches into a 3 car 159 a fun trip did not make.

 

I did trips to North Wales around the same time via both the Cambrian Coast and the North Wales coast, in the end it was preferable to go via Crewe and Llandudno Junction (which had a really good cafe on the platform making lovely bacon sarnies, vs going via Birmingham which was a really long journey on a sprinter - very crowded between Shrewsbury and Birmingham, and coming back it could be really busy with school traffic along the coast.

 

For a while I had to go to Weymouth (I was living in the Cotswolds at the time) and that gave me various options including XC from Oxford to Bournemouth but once I did it via Castle Cary (won't do that again - that was grim in the rain). But this throws up another consideration - if I have a long wait for my connecting train then where I have to spend it matters, I'd rather wait at Reading or Exeter than say Oxford. Llandudno junction back then was a good place to wait because of the cafe.

 

These days I tend to take the train rather than fly when travelling around Europe, the people I work for also have a policy that if there is a train available then you should take it, so I've done some interesting trips down to Bordeaux, Reijka (bizarrely coming back I had to get a bus to Zagreb) by rail. I see that themaninseat61 did a recent piece on rail/sail to Hook of Holland so that might be an option next time the Eurostar and airfares are ridiculously high and I need to go to the Netherlands.

[The Stationmaster]

5 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Judging by posters, adverts in Bradshaw etc, the railway commercial bods worked-out early that different customers had different wants (market segmentation), so they were simultaneously blasting claimed-lowest ticket prices at one lot, while rattling-on at great length about dining cars, scenery, speed, and safety to another lot. Another big marketing thing for the holiday trade was not having to change trains, so pushing cross-country through services, and through coaches, as a better alternative than crossing central London.

All sorts of 'attractions' were used to promote rail journeys -

 

 

 

 

[jjb1970]

Timing, convenience and price. No different to selecting flights (though flying has an additional consideration of whether frequent flyer points matter).

[KeithMacdonald]

On 15/08/2024 at 07:01, BlackFivesMatter said:

Ah yes Take the southern for sin-shine. 

Reminds me of a woman I knew in Brighton....

 

There was a young lady from Brighton

Who used to swim with no clothes on.

When asked if it was a sin-shine,

She said it's because of the brine

That I've a tan below my belly button.

[Morello Cherry]

1 hour ago, jjb1970 said:

Timing, convenience and price. No different to selecting flights (though flying has an additional consideration of whether frequent flyer points matter).

 

I would say that price is a difficult one because price is not just the headline ticket price but also all the extras they charge you through the eyeballs for and also getting to the airport etc

Depending on where you are flying if you are flying to a city with several airports then the experience at an airport or the journey beyond can matter a lot. I would rather set myself on fire than fly from Luton again. The journey from airport x to home can be easier than from airport y.

 

It can be helpful sometimes as well. When I was working in the midwest I had a choice of changing in New York or Chicago. One time I got caught in a combo of a broken down plane in London and a polar vortex. I got to JFK having missed my connection to the midwest and having been awake for more hours than I care to remember to be greeted by the sight of camp beds and people saying they had been queuing for 7 hours and others being told there were no flights out for several days and to go into the city. To cut a long story, I ended up being told there was an 8am flight to Chicago from La Guardia and then a connection to the nearest airport in the midwest. Multiple routes to the midwest definitely saved me that day.

 

Most frequent flyer schemes are pony, you have to fly so often that it is almost impossible to make any of the decent tiers unless you are flying business and someone else is paying.

 

 

[MyRule1]

On a lighter note either

 

I'll take the high road etc..

 

Or is you want new route miles you would

 

Take the road less travelled ( https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44272/the-road-not-taken )

[jjb1970]

12 hours ago, Morello Cherry said:

 

I would say that price is a difficult one because price is not just the headline ticket price but also all the extras they charge you through the eyeballs for and also getting to the airport etc
 

Most frequent flyer schemes are pony, you have to fly so often that it is almost impossible to make any of the decent tiers unless you are flying business and someone else is paying.

 

 

 

One of the price factors when looking at tickets is what is included. Flying business, premium economy or full fare economy generally includes all the extras, but in most cases it will be a lot cheaper to buy a discount ticket and pay to select a seat, for baggage etc. On travel, travel to an airport is like travel to a railway station and determined by where you start and end, I wouldn't assume rail wins on that one. 

Frequent flyer schemes can be a trap. They're designed to attract and retain those flying a lot in the good seats as that's where money is for the airlines. The problem is people can fall into a mindset of losing sight of the woods for the trees. If you fly business class you get expedited ground handling, lounge access, free wifi onboard etc anyway so getting it as part of a higher tier FF membership is irrelevant. So paying a lot more just to accumulate points is a bit silly. On the other hand if price is thereabouts then it is worth getting points, for example I get expedited ground handling and lounge access on Star Alliance airlines and free wifi on Singapore Airlines when buying my own tickets in economy to go on holiday, it isn't enough to make me pay much more to stay within Star Alliance but it is enough to make a difference if looking at similar options.

Edited August 19 by jjb1970

[Compound2632]

3 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

 

One of the price factors when looking at tickets is what is included. Flying business, premium economy or full fare economy generally includes all the extras, but in most cases it will be a lot cheaper to buy a discount ticket and pay to select a seat, for baggage etc. 

 

The airlines, though, don't offer PLA, unless the A stands for arrears, in which case, in my experience, they are pretty good at getting it delivered to where you are staying.

Edited August 19 by Compound2632

[Oldddudders]

3 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

The airlines, though, don't offer PLA, unless the A stands for arrears, in which case, in my experience, they are pretty good at getting it delivered to where you are staying.

At least most airlines recognise that luggage is part of travel, even if keen to rip you off for carrying it. Sadly the C21 railway in UK is reluctant to provide adequate space for travellers' needs, but then warns you to keep things out of the aisles. Even Eurostar, where much of the market is people from all over the world with plenty of luggage, fails this test, I'm afraid. Having a pied à terre in both countries - I don't even need to carry a toothbrush - this isn't a personal gripe, but I feel for those, often not young, which is why they can afford to travel, struggling to stow their stuff.

[Wickham Green too]

16 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

... struggling to stow their stuff.

Sometimes I get the feeling that kitchen sinks aren't as small as they used to be ! 🙄

[Morello Cherry]

3 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

 

One of the price factors when looking at tickets is what is included. Flying business, premium economy or full fare economy generally includes all the extras, but in most cases it will be a lot cheaper to buy a discount ticket and pay to select a seat, for baggage etc. On travel, travel to an airport is like travel to a railway station and determined by where you start and end, I wouldn't assume rail wins on that one. 

Frequent flyer schemes can be a trap. They're designed to attract and retain those flying a lot in the good seats as that's where money is for the airlines. The problem is people can fall into a mindset of losing sight of the woods for the trees. If you fly business class you get expedited ground handling, lounge access, free wifi onboard etc anyway so getting it as part of a higher tier FF membership is irrelevant. So paying a lot more just to accumulate points is a bit silly. On the other hand if price is thereabouts then it is worth getting points, for example I get expedited ground handling and lounge access on Star Alliance airlines and free wifi on Singapore Airlines when buying my own tickets in economy to go on holiday, it isn't enough to make me pay much more to stay within Star Alliance but it is enough to make a difference if looking at similar options.

 

I don't disagree but for example a lot of the hidden extra costs are not always immediately available, also it is only when you get to a certain tier do you get the priviledge of 'free' seat choice etc. Although in reality you've probably paid through the nose several times over to get to the level that allows you that priviledge.

 

Don't get me wrong, I've lived in places where Heathrow was dead easy to get to and others when it was dead hard. And this is one of the main factors for me - the stress factor.

 

When I have a choice of airport the security experience also matters. Some airports and even terminals are better/worse than others. When flying with family I'd rather pick Gatwick because it has a family security lane over Heathrow (which didn't last time I went through).

 

The journey home from the airport is always the slowest and worst bit of the journey, so for example I used to try to time my flights to avoid arriving during the rush hour on the M25 if I had a choice. (Although the downside was that it did mean leaving where I was working in the rush hour).