Which route would you choose?

[BlackFivesMatter]

Many towns and cities had services to other principal cities and towns offered by one or more pre grouping and pre nationalisation companies. I understand that ticket prices were controlled to an extent.

So if you say loved in London and wanted to travel to Exeter you had the choice of GWR or LSWR routes.  How would the traveller choose which route. Likewise if you lived in Aberdeen and wanted to go to London (fool) would you choose the ecml or west coast? 

 

[KeithMacdonald]

13 minutes ago, BlackFivesMatter said:

So if you say loved in London and wanted to travel to Exeter you had the choice of GWR or LSWR routes.  How would the traveller choose which route.

 

If I loved in London, but I had to leave, i would be feeling sad and melancholy. So definitely the LSWR route.

[Flying Pig]

35 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

If I loved in London, but I had to leave, i would be feeling sad and melancholy. So definitely the LSWR route.

 

That depends on why you had to leave: there are circumstances in which you might be feeling afraid and embarrassed by your lack of trousers.

 

[55020]

1 hour ago, BlackFivesMatter said:

Likewise if you lived in Aberdeen and wanted to go to London

 

What, you mean I can leave?  Damn, how come it's taken this long for someone to tell me.  😂

 

 

Steve

[BlackFivesMatter]

10 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

If I loved in London, but I had to leave, i would be feeling sad and melancholy. So definitely the LSWR route.

Ah yes Take the southern for sin-shine. 

 

Reminds me of a woman I knew in Brighton....

[40152]

11 hours ago, 55020 said:

 

What, you mean I can leave?  Damn, how come it's taken this long for someone to tell me.  😂

 

 

Steve

There’s life south of Stonehaven? Crivens! Thought trains just fell off the edge once they headed south from Aberdeen 😉

 

 

[BoD]

13 hours ago, BlackFivesMatter said:

Likewise if you lived in Aberdeen and wanted to go to London (fool) would you choose the ecml or west coast? 

You would organise a race to determine the issue.

Edited August 15 by BoD

[Hal Nail]

13 hours ago, BlackFivesMatter said:

How would the traveller choose which route.

Might depend on frequency. if it was a long journey and only a few trains then the most conveniently timed?

[Rivercider]

When I was a child our family lived in Exeter. Dad worked for BR so when we went to London we went by train.

Exeter Central was closer to our house, and with a pretty direct bus service.

The final destination in London would have some bearing on which route to use. 

 

I think for variety dad always took us up to Waterloo, but returned from Paddington.

 

cheers

[Wickham Green too]

Similarly - though in the opposite direction - living where I do, I'd have to go through Waterloo ( East to Bakerloo ) to get to Pad. - so the South western route is the obvious one ................ though, of course this route actually serves lots more places that it passes through so tends to be rather slower.

[kevinlms]

53 minutes ago, BoD said:

You would organise a race to determine the issue.

Did they actually race southbound? I thought the races were only the northbound trains, both 1888 and 1895.

[Compound2632]

This is an interesting question. There may have been an element of passenger tribalism. It is, I believe, a matter of record in various memoirs etc. that the broad gauge Great Western was preferred over the standard gauge South Western for the steadiness of the ride; that may have carried over into continued brand loyalty after the gauge conversion.

 

But how would you have chosen between, say, 10am departures from Euston and King's Cross, along with a 9:30am from St Pancras, all getting you to Edinburgh around 6pm?

[The Stationmaster]

My father's family lived in and near York so we needed to get there on our occasional tris from home in the Thames Valley.  For many years of my childhood the choice of route was very simple - 100% based on cost, and going via Banbury and the GC was the cheapest way to get from Reading to York.   Only later did we transfer to going via London and the ECML as being a bit better off altered the choice from being based on cost to being based on overall journey time and quality of train on offer.

 

And that was how many folk made their travel arrangements with cost being a major factor for them.  It was still something thought about and based their decision on well into theh 1960s

[Bernard Lamb]

At one time it was possible to depart from Haymarket, with a choice of trains, at around 08.50 and arrive home in time for tea. They set off in opposite directions, one using the ECML and the other via the WCML. One went via London and the orher via Birmingham. My choice depended on the availability of bargain fares. ECML from Waverley was usually a better option price wise.

 

As a very young child I frequently travelled with a parent between Essex and Hertfordshire. The choice of route between Liverpool Street and Euston was governed by a large variety of factors.  

Bernard

[APOLLO]

Wigan to Manchester we had a choice of four routes

 

L&Y Wigan Wallgate to Manchester Victoria via Bolton

L&Y Wigan Wallgate to Manchester Victoria via Walkden (direct line) - Once a very fast 4 track line.

L&NW Wigan North Western to Manchester Exchange via Tyldesley

Great Central Wigan Central to Manchester Central via Glazebrook & Irlam (what a journey around the houses that was !!)

 

The first two still exist and the Bolton (Lostock Jcn) to Wigan NW line is being electrified (not to Wallgate though due to bridge clearances)

 

Brit15

[Compound2632]

58 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

My father's family lived in and near York so we needed to get there on our occasional tris from home in the Thames Valley.  For many years of my childhood the choice of route was very simple - 100% based on cost, and going via Banbury and the GC was the cheapest way to get from Reading to York.   Only later did we transfer to going via London and the ECML as being a bit better off altered the choice from being based on cost to being based on overall journey time and quality of train on offer.

 

And that was how many folk made their travel arrangements with cost being a major factor for them.  It was still something thought about and based their decision on well into theh 1960s

 

In my youth I travelled from Oxford regularly and heading north would invariably go via Birmingham - the thought of going via London did not occur. Only for Cambridge would I go via King's Cross - a shorter underground journey from Paddington than going to Liverpool St and also a faster service to Cambridge - this is late 80s early 90s. But from Cambridge the ticketing allowed a return journey via Birmingham, so I could take in a visit to my parents.

 

From Reading, my sons invariably head to the north east via King's Cross, even when burdened with backpacks, instruments, etc. Speed of journey wins out over a direct train via Birmingham, or even the easier change there.

 

Going to London for the evening, they both look askance at my preference for the slow train to Waterloo from Earley over going via Reading and Paddington - especially my preference for changing at Richmond to the District. I think I've come to dislike large stations - even Richmond is a bit on the big side for me!

Edited August 15 by Compound2632

[Kylestrome]

17 hours ago, BlackFivesMatter said:

Many towns and cities had services to other principal cities and towns offered by one or more pre grouping and pre nationalisation companies. I understand that ticket prices were controlled to an extent.

So if you say loved in London and wanted to travel to Exeter you had the choice of GWR or LSWR routes.  How would the traveller choose which route. Likewise if you lived in Aberdeen and wanted to go to London (fool) would you choose the ecml or west coast? 

 

In the Blue era, I often had to travel from London to Exeter. I usually chose the southern route in order to get 33 or 50 haulage. it took longer but was more enjoyable. I always stayed on until St. Davids.(more to see).

Edited August 15 by Kylestrome

[The Johnster]

It would depend to a large extent on the positioning of the stations and the passengers’ individual reqirements.  For the London-Exeter example, the LSW Central station is more, um, central to the city than the GW St.David’s on it’s western fringes.  Waterloo is clearly better placed for destinations in the south or east of London than Paddington, but the onward Underground connections were a factor here as well.  
 

The timing of departures and arrivals on competing routes would also affect the passengers’ choice (speed sells most of the time, but is of no use if the faster service departs and arrives at times inconvenient to your journey while a slower one does), and to a lesser extent comfort and the availability and quality of catering on the trains.  Where through journeys are involves, the frequency and convenience of connection comes into play as well.  
 

Enthusiast decisions such as Kylestrome’s LSWR choice of London-Exeter behind a 33 or 50 are probably not a significant factor in terms of railway revenue or planning.  

Edited August 15 by The Johnster

[Compound2632]

9 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

 

Enthusiast decisions such as Kylestrome’s LSWR choice of London-Exeter behind a 33 or 50 are probably not a significant factor in terms of railway revenue or planning.  

 

On the other hand, the Midland, with the slower route to Scotland, played the scenery card in its advertising - appealing to enthusiasts of sorts. Also of course comfort - in other words, better both inside and out!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

44 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

It would depend to a large extent on the positioning of the stations and the passengers’ individual reqirements.

And how! Further simple factors such as which station (either end) was on a good bus route, or an intermediate stop where someone else could join the train, or which destination had the most effective post office staff in arranging accomodation, might swing it.

 

There's some lovely correspondence from the late 1800s in my wife's family, relating to their usual summer expeditions to the West coast of Scotland which includes such factors. How else was Great aunt Cecile, about 70 miles distant from most of the family, to be part of the annual family reunion; and to have a room with a Northerly aspect?

 

And all of course by post, in the most elegant cursive hand...

Edited August 15 by 34theletterbetweenB&D
forgot the loveliest aspect

[Artless Bodger]

As a student in Reading, going home for the weekend, there was the obvious, fastest, choice, Reading to Paddington, Circle line, Victoria to Maidstone East.

In later years, while M&D were still alive, when visiting I had several options, depending on time and whether I wanted to cross London. On a Saturday morning while the underground was quiet, via Paddington, then Bakerloo and Victoria lines to Victoria and ME.

Coming back though to avoid crowds in London, especially on the underground, I usually went Maidstone West to Tonbridge, then Redhill and Reading (could change at Wokingham to a SWT electric to get off at Earley 25 min walk home and avoid the nightime crowds in Reading).

For a while, returning via London there was a fast service from ME to London Bridge and Cannon Street, change LB to Waterloo East, then Waterloo to Earley.

Using Paddington I could also use St Pancras to Strood via the CTRL, change to the Medway Valley line to MW or Barracks, and vv for the return.

And if I wanted to dawdle, or engineering works intervened, MW to Strood or Tonbridge, then to London Bridge by either route and via Waterloo. Once I even returned via Tonbridge via Redhill and London (due to a failed train blocking the line around Sevenoaks). 

Once only on a Saturday morning, Reading to Dover train (just before it was withdrawn) via North Pole, change at Ashford and backtrack to ME.

Overall I think I tried virtually every route.

Oh, and engineering works diversions via East Brixton and the Battersea low level lines, and Beckenham Junction to Victoria via Crystal Palace. And not forgetting some Vic - ME trains went via the Catford Loop. Phew! 

[bécasse]

You mean that you missed out on the Beckenham Junction - Catford Bridge - Lewisham - Nunhead diversionary route.

[BoD]

9 hours ago, kevinlms said:

Did they actually race southbound? I thought the races were only the northbound trains, both 1888 and 1895.

I wasn’t being totally serious. 😉

 

I mean, we’d have to rebuild Kinnaber Junction for a start.

[pH]

Having lived in a few different places in England, the route chosen to visit family in Scotland could depend on several factors - usually the time available to make the journey.

To and from Sheffield was by the Thames-Clyde. Except for one northbound journey, started mid-afternoon which was Sheffield to Manchester Piccadilly by the Hope Valley, walk across to Exchange, then from there to Glasgow.

 

Living near Long Eaton, if time was available we would go into Nottingham and get the Thames-Clyde via Leeds, Carlisle and Kilmarnock to Glasgow, returning by the same route. If time was short I.e. the journey was starting after noon, the trip was Nottingham or Derby to Crewe and WCML to Glasgow. Reverse route for a later return from Glasgow.

 

Living near Wetherby, the usual journey was into Leeds by bus, then Thames-Clyde to Glasgow. Return route was the reverse. An afternoon departure involved getting a lift into York (public transport Wetherby-York was lamentable), ECML to Edinburgh, then Edinburgh-Glasgow. We never did a late return trip by that route - there was a Glasgow-Leeds via Carlisle at about 4pm which suited just fine.

 

From Cambridge, if we had time and to avoid London, we would go to Peterborough, then ECML and Edinburgh-Glasgow. However, by the time we had three young kids to accompany us, the hassle of the underground from Liverpool Street/Kings Cross to Euston was outweighed by the fact that once you were on the train in Euston, there was no need to move again before Glasgow.

 

(Of course there were other trips by hired car, overnight bus and thumb.)

[DCB]

Choice of route could be down to the standard of catering, proximity of the terminus to the destination or some other factor such as the Midland stopping at Leeds en route to Glasgow to change direction so everyone spent half the journey facing the engine and half with their back to the engine.     It could also be down to the lousy timekeeping on certain routes.