Phil Parker Posted August 15 Share Posted August 15 3 minutes ago, Sir TophamHatt said: A forum member not connected to any company posting here with what the newest releases are - is that advertising? Technically yes, although it's the company advertising, not the member. 3 minutes ago, Sir TophamHatt said: A forum member not connected to the company but suggesting products they have used successfully and easily - is that advertising? As has been said at least twice in this thread, no. 4 minutes ago, Sir TophamHatt said: A forum member who is connected to a company (by way of being on their staff) but their account seems more personal rather than a "company profile" posting here what their newest releases are - is that advertising? That's just someone trying to get around the rules and advertising. There are lots of grey areas. I'm sorry that we haven't wheeled out something the size and complexity of the Formula 1 rulebook, but that isn't going to happen. 5 minutes ago, Sir TophamHatt said: But what I am worried about is certain people / companies not paying a fee and thus not posting here meaning I may miss an announcement of a product that I would like to buy. And what we are worried about is paying for RMweb. If it doesn't cover its costs, then you'll be looking for those announcements on a myriad of forums, including Facebook, X, Threads, Bluesky, Pinterest, YouTube, Reddit, Tumblr, Twitch, Discord, and doubtless, many more. What RMweb offers those who wish to promote a product, is a lot of people, all interested in model railways, in one place. That very tightly targeted group of people has got to have a value for any advertiser. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir TophamHatt Posted August 15 Share Posted August 15 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Phil Parker said: Another part of the process, is that we are offering more package deals to advertisers. With three magazines, World of Railways, RMweb, enewsletters and shows, it makes sense to do a one-off deal that covers everything, rather than continually being bothered when a new opportunity arises. This is a pretty neat idea and could be a great for small/medium sized enterprises to have a complete advertising product across different medias. However, if RM Web didn't exist, there is a multitude of groups on a single social media website that I could call upon. On the odd chance of no replies there, then it probably doesn't exist! Most the other sites you said aren't aimed at model railways :P I'm also not asking for a formula 1 handbook on this, but perhaps some stuff should have been thought of and put together before announcing it is all. Edited August 15 by Sir TophamHatt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators AY Mod Posted August 15 Administrators Share Posted August 15 7 minutes ago, Sir TophamHatt said: This is a pretty neat idea and could be a great for small/medium sized enterprises to have a complete advertising product across different medias. However, if RM Web didn't exist, there is a multitude of groups on a single social media website that I could call upon. On the odd chance of no replies there, then it probably doesn't exist! Most the other sites you said aren't aimed at model railways :P I'm also not asking for a formula 1 handbook on this, but perhaps some stuff should have been thought of and put together before announcing it is all. Much of what you say seems to rely on someone else, anyone even, paying for your free access and usage and if they don't do so you are content with something less good. You have others to thank for RMweb still being here. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Parker Posted August 15 Share Posted August 15 39 minutes ago, Sir TophamHatt said: I'm also not asking for a formula 1 handbook on this, but perhaps some stuff should have been thought of and put together before announcing it is all. 1 hour ago, Sir TophamHatt said: I am completely not affected as I don't make anything worth selling :P It was, and is being discussed with those who are affected. You, by your own admission, are not. 39 minutes ago, Sir TophamHatt said: Most the other sites you said aren't aimed at model railways :P Which is why RMweb is so valuable. It provides manufacturers of model railway products a place where they can announce, and discuss items, within a group of relevant people. That has value for both advertisers, and potential customers, but comes at a cost which someone has to pay. Since you don't think it should be those benefiting financially, who do you propose pays the bills? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cwmtwrch Posted August 15 Share Posted August 15 1 hour ago, Phil Parker said: 1 hour ago, Sir TophamHatt said: A forum member not connected to any company posting here with what the newest releases are - is that advertising? Technically yes, although it's the company advertising, not the member. Technically, no, as the company producing the 'new releases' has no control of the activities of the person posting in the circumstances postulated, and the person posting is merely reporting what someone else is doing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Parker Posted August 15 Share Posted August 15 Just now, Cwmtwrch said: Technically, no, as the company producing the 'new releases' has no control of the activities of the person posting in the circumstances postulated, and the person posting is merely reporting what someone else is doing. It's still an advert, who (if anyone) should be paying for it is something we have to work out. If not, then all a company has to do, is set up a fake account, and post their announcements to avoid contributing to the costs involved in gaining them commercial benefits. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cwmtwrch Posted August 15 Share Posted August 15 3 minutes ago, Phil Parker said: It's still an advert, who (if anyone) should be paying for it is something we have to work out. If not, then all a company has to do, is set up a fake account, and post their announcements to avoid contributing to the costs involved in gaining them commercial benefits. @Sir TophamHatt asked specifically about "A forum member not connected to any company...". On that basis there is no contract between the poster and the company by definition, so the company is not responsible for what the poster does, e.g. posting about what the company has just announced on their website, and there is no financial reward from the company to the person posting. If the company sets up a fake account that is another matter entirely and not what @Sir TophamHatt asked, as is the position when a company asks someone posting on here to post about their products, which should be labelled as such, but even then there may be issues around whether a contract exists or not. My opinions only, and I am not a lawyer, but I spent qute a few years working in a role where I was dealing with contract wordings. No doubt you have lawyers looking at yours... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Parker Posted August 15 Share Posted August 15 16 minutes ago, Cwmtwrch said: @Sir TophamHatt asked specifically about "A forum member not connected to any company...". On that basis there is no contract between the poster and the company by definition, so the company is not responsible for what the poster does, e.g. posting about what the company has just announced on their website, and there is no financial reward from the company to the person posting. If the company sets up a fake account that is another matter entirely and not what @Sir TophamHatt asked, as is the position when a company asks someone posting on here to post about their products, which should be labelled as such, but even then there may be issues around whether a contract exists or not. My opinions only, and I am not a lawyer, but I spent qute a few years working in a role where I was dealing with contract wordings. No doubt you have lawyers looking at yours... OK, I give up. I'm trying to concentrate hard, and do some work, that actually brings in an income, and all I'm doing is dealing with people who contribute nothing, expect others to pay for their entertainment, and want to pick holes in the best practical plan we have to try to make the forum cover its costs. It may not be prefect, but it does offer a way to keep this forum free for users. When someone has an idea for funding RMweb that isn't "subsidise it from a magazine I won't buy" then come back to me. I think I'll be waiting a long while. In the meantime, much against what I believe in. This topic is locked. 13 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BRMSarah Posted August 15 Popular Post Share Posted August 15 Good afternoon everyone. Ad Boys here again. We really appreciate your comments and we are reading them all. RMweb has been here providing you with news, views, gossip and a community for many years, and over that time has grown into a site which literally attracts millions of views every month. It has grown from something Andy York could fund and manage from the comfort of his kitchen table, to a platform which requires constant update and web development, a huge amount of man hours creating and moderating content, a whole team of folk working hard to make sure RMweb keeps delivering the hobby to it's loyal and ever growing community and HUGE server costs storing all the information from over the years so it's here for you all to access at will. The way we consume media is changing, the way we consume products is changing, the inevitable shift to a more digital world has been thrust upon us much more quickly than we had anticipated thanks to Covid. We'll still keep bringing you BRM, Garden Rail and Narrow Gauge World but the reality is less and less of you are heading to WH Smiths to buy those products and more and more of you are coming here to engage with your hobby. And why wouldn't you? It's free, it's accessible from the comfort of your home and, actually, it's really blinking good! We've built a huge community now on RMweb and, as a business, we think a level has been reached which is really commercially valuable. In July RMweb had 2.4 million page views, 180k users.....that's a lot of eyes on a brand isn't it? I can't think of a single reason why businesses shouldn't be charged for that level of exposure, can you? We're not here to rip people off, we're not here to stop small businesses making a profit, we're simply attaching a value to a really good promotional tool. In my whole career selling adverts (more years than I care to remember) I have never once had anyone tell me that it was unreasonable to expect them to pay for an advert in a magazine...not even once! Many of you have reached out to me and I have dealt with everyone on a case to case basis. Like Phil and Andy have explained, we are here trying to navigate the grey areas for you and I'm happy to look at each and every case. Some of you will be able to continue as you are and not breach any new rules, some won't...but don't be afraid to have the conversation with me, I'm happy to have it. Just pop me an e-mail to sarah.jarman@warnersgroup.co.uk and I will get back to you as soon as I can. 14 5 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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