Guisborough Station in N

[RicJ]

Ever since I researched and put together the very successful 'Railways in Guisborough' exhibition in the town museum back in 2013, it has been my ambition to build the most accurate, working model of the station possible.  Around a year ago after receiving an impressively detailed laser cut model kit of a shepherds hut from my GF, I had the realisation/revelation that since I possessed hundreds of photos of the station as well as the architects plans, perhaps I could have the model laser cut to an extremely high level of detail and accuracy.  And so began a very steep learning curve that began with me mistakenly believing that all I'd need would be the station plans and led to me learning (basic 2D) CAD.

 

I have also decided that I will use Finetrax from British Finescale and after a couple of false starts elsewhere, I am now working with Gavin at Stoneybridge Structures to create the laser cut sections of the station buildings in MDF.

 

 

I've decided to build in N for the simple reason that I have nowhere near enough space for anything bigger and I also hope to ultimately be able to transport the layout to local shows in my car.

 

 

As I am a new member here, I'm not sure how it all works but I hope to use this thread to chart the progress of the project from the work I've already done over the past half a year and then on into the future work I hope to do.  

 

 

Any help or advice would be massively appreciated along the way!

Edited July 31 by RicJ
Add photo

[scottystitch]

Very interesting.  I know nothing of the location so look forward to seeing it progress.

 

What timescale is your model set in ?

 

I'm using Finetrax as well.  An excellent product, particularly now with the latest iteration of turnouts.

 

Best

Scott.

Edited July 31 by scottystitch

[D5158]

I am looking forward to seeing your progress with Guisborough.

 

My family, on my father’s side lived in Guisborough, as do my cousins.  My father watched the cricket and I watched the trains which were few and far between.  I remember the Ruston DS48 at the foundry.

 

I visited the exhibition a few years ago and donated a copy of the 1920’s track plan, scale 1” = 33’ which I obtained from BR in York during the mid 60’s.  My father travelled daily to M’bro in the steam railcars.  My only reflection as a child was a Met Cam DMU ride from Brotton to Middlesbrough.  I distinctly remember the driver walking through the train during the reversal at the junction.

 

Are you doing pre 1922 or the the simplified formation?.

 

Regards

 

Alan

 

 

[RicJ]

Thanks for the replies.

 

To answer the question that you both asked, I am modelling it in a very specific timescale.  Essentially the last couple of years of operation of the coastal line to Whitby and Scarborough so around 1956-58.  Just after demolition of the engine shed but with track still in existence in the bay platform.  I have acquired a Farish 4MT tank which just happened to be numbered 80119 - a Whitby engine that ran along that route at that exact time.  After that, I'm a bit stumped for motive power until I enter the world of loco kit building.  When that happens I have my eye on the Worsley works V1 and A8.  I was also going to put together a 3D printed V1/V3 by AtsoCAD via Shapeways (which I have bought the N Class donor loco for) but since Shapeways no longer exists that might be a problem.  I have messaged Atso on here to ask if he'll do one for me but not holding out much hope...  Aside from that, I might purchase a 101 DMU which could hypothetically have been found between Middlesbrough and Guisborough on crew training runs during 57-58.

 

D5158 - that's really interesting, thanks for sharing the memories.  That must have been between 1958 and 1960, after the end of the line to Whitby but whilst there was still a DMU service as far as Loftus.  I too remember the small Ruston diesel in the foundry but as I was only born in 1981, I am too young to have been around when the railway was still in existence.  

 

scottystitch - That's great that there's someone else using Finetrax (I'm assuming in N?).  I've definitely got a few questions there!  So I have built a few test pieces and the Y turnout and it looks great but still haven't researched the best way to power it.  What would you recommend there?  Also, do you use the miniscule fishplates to join it?  How do you get it perfectly straight before installing it and do you glue it down?

[D5158]

You may like to check “Whitby & East Cleveland” on this forum.

Its been quiet for a while.  

Edited July 31 by D5158
Text correction

[RicJ]

So, first retrospective update:

 

Back in November after finding out that it would not be as simple as just sending scans of the station plans off to a laser cutting service, I was suddenly faced with the daunting task of drawing the entire station in CAD.  This was nearly enough to make me give up on the project but with a little bit of help from my Dad (who is a little bit of computer genius), we came up with a slightly easier approach.  Rather than drawing from scratch, I would convert the station plans to CAD drawings.  Unfortunately this only half worked as the program distorted the plans into a bit of a squiggly mess so I would have to combine the concepts of drawing from scratch with tracing over the converted plans and this worked relatively well.

 

 

The above photo shows a combination of the roughly converted station plan, my more accurate tracing over the top and my measurements.

 

 This whole process took a couple of months and became a bit of an obsession.  I found myself completely forgetting about the scale I was working in and quibbling over tens of mm's which once I reached the next stage seemed truly ridiculous.  But eventually I had my basic CAD drawings of each elevation of the station.

Edited August 1 by RicJ
Grammar

[russ p]

Weird thing about Guisborough although it looks double track it wasn't.  The southern most line was for passenger trains into and out of the platform and the other for goods into the yard and Blackett Hutton

Increasingly the signal which protected the junction on the passenger line was a gas lit colour light with 2 heads. Presumably so it could be seen more easily when trains were being propelled out

[RicJ]

8 minutes ago, russ p said:

Weird thing about Guisborough although it looks double track it wasn't.  The southern most line was for passenger trains into and out of the platform and the other for goods into the yard and Blackett Hutton

Increasingly the signal which protected the junction on the passenger line was a gas lit colour light with 2 heads. Presumably so it could be seen more easily when trains were being propelled out

 

This is true.  I included a good John Boyes colour photo of that signal in the exhibition.  Before the re-modeling of the track layout into a single goods and single passenger line into the station, there were initially two passenger lines serving the main and bay platforms.  I believe the bay platform fell out of use when the push pull and steam railcars ceased.

[russ p]

21 minutes ago, RicJ said:

 

This is true.  I included a good John Boyes colour photo of that signal in the exhibition.  Before the re-modeling of the track layout into a single goods and single passenger line into the station, there were initially two passenger lines serving the main and bay platforms.  I believe the bay platform fell out of use when the push pull and steam railcars ceased.

 

I've only seen a poor picture of that signal could you put it on here or is it copyrighted 

[The Bandit]

Will be following this build with interest. I lived and worked in Guisborough for a while and now live about five miles away. There is a layout of Guisborough built by , I think, Cleveland MRC. Hope this doesn’t put you off.

[RicJ]

20 hours ago, russ p said:

 

I've only seen a poor picture of that signal could you put it on here or is it copyrighted 

 

I'm not sure if it's copyrighted but here is a cropped in image of just the signal:

[RicJ]

51 minutes ago, The Bandit said:

Will be following this build with interest. I lived and worked in Guisborough for a while and now live about five miles away. There is a layout of Guisborough built by , I think, Cleveland MRC. Hope this doesn’t put you off.

 

Thanks!  And yes that was one of the catalysts for inspiring me to begin this build.  Although a very impressive achievement, the accuracy of that layout is questionable on a couple of levels.  Mine will be a lot smaller and cover less area but as a rivet counting perfectionist, I'm aiming for it to be almost photorealistic which I hope will become clear when I get to posting the photos of the first bit of laser cut and painted building which is the point I reached a week or so ago.  I've roughly counted the amount of stones on each wall and attempted to draw them like for like in QCAD.  I have also pretty much mastered painting the soot blackened sandstone effect that made up the walls of the buildings.  

[russ p]

2 hours ago, RicJ said:

 

I'm not sure if it's copyrighted but here is a cropped in image of just the signal:

That maybe in the short time the branch was open to freight after the passenger service finished as line in foreground is rusty but the other just a light covering.  Not sure if there was a distant lense that has been removed 

[RicJ]

23 minutes ago, russ p said:

That maybe in the short time the branch was open to freight after the passenger service finished as line in foreground is rusty but the other just a light covering.  Not sure if there was a distant lense that has been removed 

Yes the photo was taken on the 12th April 1964 so just over a month since the final passenger train.  Freight services continued until the 31st August of that year and then track lifting commenced the following spring with the final ever train (a class 37 hauled track lifting train) leaving the town on the 21st June 1965.

[Michael Hodgson]

Must have been a fascinating place in its heyday,  And operation as two single line railways like that is distinctly unusual, though I doubt trains would ever be timed to pass eachother on the branch.

[RicJ]

Retrospective update no 2:

 

Once I had taken the CAD designs as far as I could and until I could find someone to work with me closely on the laser cutting process, I found myself at a standstill.  Then thought a mixture of curiosity, boredom and impatience, I came up with the idea to make a 'proof of concept' test model of the station just to see if it came together the way it should and my CAD work was up to scratch.  I was able to source a big piece of scrap card from my local (soon to be closing down) stationary shop (which ironically used to exist alongside the station) and set about printing my CAD designs out to scale, sticking them onto the card and then cutting the card up with a craft knife and steel ruler.  Despite the obviously white and featureless, almost ghostly appearance, I was over the moon with the results and it gave me confidence that I would end up with something pretty special. 

[RicJ]

Retrospective update no 2.5:

 

Then obviously, I couldn't resist to place my only locomotive acquisition with the few relatively era specific carriages I could find, with the mock up.  When it comes to motive power for this layout, it's going to be a tricky one.  During the era I am modelling, the only locomotive classes used on the Middlesbrough/Guisborough/Whitby/Scarborough services were A8, L1, V1/V3, Ivatt 4MT and Whitby shed's newly acquired Standard 4MT tank engines.  And so far, much to my dismay, the only ready to run N scale model available out of that list is the Standard 4MT tank...  The plus side of this is that Farish just happened to model 80119 which was only one of the Whitby engines!  What are the chances?!  So I was able to get my hands on that.  When it comes to the others the only option so far is kit building which is something I have no idea about at all.  So that could get pretty interesting!

[apbolton]

That's a pretty detailed mock up you have there, definitely looks the part.

I shall look forward to seeing your layout development.

 

[The Bandit]

That’s already really looking the part.

[RicJ]

Retrospective update no 3:

 

Alongside the whole mock-up building phase of the project, I also turned my hand to the stonework which had remained a bit of mystery as to how I was going to achieve it.  When I found out I was going to have to draw it all myself, it turned into something a little bit terrifying.  Despite it being something I started back in December last year, it is something I am still hard at work at now and something that has evolved and improved over time, especially with the help of Gavin at Stoneybridge structures (more on that in the next update).  But initially I set about using photos and counting stones to get a pretty accurate representation of what existed in real life.  I was then told (by someone who will remain nameless) that I had been wasting my time drawing each stone with mortar lines and rounded edges and needed to lose the mortar lines and draw straight edged stone.  This threw me into a bit of a funk as the station was made of rough sandstone, (not brick) with visible mortar lines.  So obviously the model needed to reflect this.  Below is an image of my first stone drawing progress on the goods shed back in December at the point I reached when the previously mentioned spanner was thrown into my works:

Edited August 6 by RicJ
Grammar

[RicJ]

Retrospective update no 4:

 

So once the mock up had proved that the model worked (in theory), and my stone building progress had been stopped in its tracks, things then stagnated for a long time whilst I found someone willing to take the project on, work with me on the problems and offer friendly advice.  There were a couple of false starts and false hopes with other people before I got in touch with Gavin at Stoneybridge Structures.  As he is based in Sunderland which is only an hour away from Guisborough, I was able to drive over there in early June and have a really good chat in person which helped massively.  It also made me realise that despite the hundreds of hours work I had put into the CAD work, my designs still had a fair amount of work to do on them before they'd be ready for laser cutting.  

 

One of the most important parts of my meeting with Gavin though, was his wizardry in solving my stone problem.  Using a hatching method in his CAD software, he was (somehow) able to make it possible for me to have my rounded stone AND my mortar lines which I was absolutely over the moon about and the project was once again back on track.  

 

So most of our meeting was based around chatting and planning but then, to much to my amazement, Gavin did put one of my designs into the cutter and it was a pretty special moment to see something I'd spent so long working on on a computer screen, come to life and become a tangible object I could hold in my hand:

 

 

 

 

One thing that was instantly clear though, was that the mortar lines were far too shallow and narrow at that scale so my stonework design would need to be altered.

 

We then came up with a plan that, of the 9 buildings and structures that made up the station complex, we would start with the very smallest and work our way up, ironing out problems and developing our methods as we went.  

 

It was at this point that it really felt like the project had become a proper thing that was going to actually happen and I set off back to Guisborough with a clear idea of how to proceed.

[RicJ]

Retrospective update no 5:

 

So armed with a new knowledge of what was required, I set about working on the smallest stone structure of the station complex which was the porters cabin.  I did my usual stone counting and measuring from the many photos in my collection and recreated the stone layout but this time with much wider mortar lines. 

 

I then headed back to Sunderland and after a couple of hours further fiddling, the laser cutter was fired up and the results were infinitely better.  Unfortunately there was no time for windows, doors or chimneys so I returned home with my four walls and using a piece of wood cut to and exact 45 degrees set about trying to chamfer the edges to that angle which did not go to plan..  But eventually, I had my first building and considering creating the stonework had been my biggest worry, I could not have been happier with the results.  But that was only half the puzzle, next I had to figure out an effective painting technique...

 

[RicJ]

Retrospective update no 6:

 

Being the impatient person that I am, I didn't waste much time beginning my paint experimentations.  I had been formulating a plan for this for a long time and unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any tutorials online anywhere for painting soot blackened sandstone.  The obvious way to approach it seemed to be to work up with the sandy colours and then finish with some black dry brushing.  I had quite a lot of confidence trying that technique but the sticking point was the mortar lines.  Should I paint them first and then skim over the cracks or paint up the sandstone textures and do a mortar wash...  In the end I incorporated both.  I spent absolutely hours and found working with such tiny spaces tricky but once again, surprised myself with the results.  

 

A small snippet of the stonework from a K Cockerill photo.  It is not unrealistic to say that there are no two parts of the station with any kind of uniform colour.

 

And my first two attempts (the matchsticks I glued in for reenforcement give an idea of the scale):

[Revolution Ben]

 

Hi there,

 

That is superb - well done.

 

Allan Downes was the past master at painting stone blocking, albeit primarily in 4mm and 7mm.  Sadly he is no longer with us, but his techniques have been well documented in threads here and elsewhere.  Having said that, what you have achieved is excellent and you probably don't need any further tips!

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

 

 

[RicJ]

Thanks Ben really appreciate it and I will try and locate some of those threads.  

 

This was just my first attempt and I have since been able to hone it a little bit which I will show in my next (and final) retrospective update.  But it's a big relief to know I've managed to get some results that look convincing - this was second only to the wiring in the list of things I was most nervous about tackling in this project!