'Whisky wagons' - numbering

[John Isherwood]

As the proud owner - thanks Tony Wright - of eleven Trix 'whisky' wagons, I now wish to complete their livery by adding correct wagon numbers.

 

These are the first series of the prototype wagons, as opposed to the later series modelled by Lima.

 

Does anyone know the original number series?

 

Also, not all of the models are in the iconic blue livery - there is also one in yellow Maltsters Association of Great Britain livery, and one in plain grey BRT livery. Were these exceptions from a separate number series, or random examples from the main series?

 

Any assistance will be gratefull received.

 

CJI.

[Wickham Green too]

Details are given on pages 38/9 of the Cheona wagon profile No.9 .... but some at least got rebuilt with heavier springs and were renumbered into the 77xx ( etc ) series ..... though they seem to have got coil springs later - just to complicate matters.

 

Lentran : 15/4/80

[John Isherwood]

1 hour ago, Wickham Green too said:

Details are given on pages 38/9 of the Cheona wagon profile No.9 .... but some at least got rebuilt with heavier springs and were renumbered into the 77xx ( etc ) series ..... though they seem to have got coil springs later - just to complicate matters.

 

Lentran : 15/4/80

 

Thank you - I will go and check whether I have that book on my shelves.

 

CJI.

[03060]

Just having a quick look in Colin Marsden's Rolling Stock Recognition:2 BR and Private Owner Wagons which describes the original wagons with the advertising boards as PAF with an illustration of original condition BRT No. 5816 and also of BRT No. 7586 with no advertisement boards.

 

Note that these wagons have 10 side support struts as per the Trix (and Peco N gauge) wagons where as  the wagon in @Wickham Green too's photo only has 7 struts and I think is a photo of the Lima type wagons.

 

Just to confuse matters @Wickham Green too is correct in that some of the original 10 strut wagons were modified to have Pedastal suspension similar to one in the photo above, I think that the hopper is a different dimension as well but am not certain about this.

 

I would imagine that Paul Bartlett's website will have photos of wagons in the different number ranges. I also have seen an article in a Train Formations bookazine (BRM ?) that has a section for Whiskey wagons which would give good information, I'll try and dig it out later.

 

Regards,

Ian.

[Wickham Green too]

2 minutes ago, 03060 said:

... Whiskey wagons ...

No - the thread's about Whisky wagons - Whiskey wagons only ran on 5'3'' or 3' gauge ! 🤪

 

Yes, 7795 was a seven-ribber at the time but its unidentified neighbour had ten ........... might the former have had a new body not just fresh paint ??!?

 

[hmrspaul]

As I mention on my site, David Ratcliffe has published about these:-  Ratcliffe, David (1994) Whisky on the Wagon - the operational history of the BRTE Bulk grain vans. Modellers Backtrack vol. 4 (part 1) pp 04 - 10.

 

I have added more information on origins, suspension and operating company to the introduction of https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brtgraincovhop

 

Paul

 

Edited July 26 by hmrspaul

[C126]

I think @03060 is referring to Rail Express Modeller's 2018 Train formations handbook.  Pp. 56-61 covers grain traffic, with p.57 having eight pictures of various wagons.  Unfortunately, the captions are cock-eyed!  There is a photo (David Ratcliffe) of BRT7624 with double-link leaf-spring suspension in bauxite and no advert on the side.  (Correct) caption reads, "The first two batches of BRTE grain vans had eight-ribbed body sides, as illustrated by BRT 7624 - recorded in internal use at Mossend in July 1990.  This was one of the 35 initially leased to the Maltsters Association, many of which were repainted bauxite in the late 1970's."

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

[John Isherwood]

Thanks all for the info - I can now get on and design and print some number transfers.

 

CJI.

[03060]

5 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

No - the thread's about Whisky wagons - Whiskey wagons only ran on 5'3'' or 3' gauge ! 🤪

 

Yes, 7795 was a seven-ribber at the time but its unidentified neighbour had ten ........... might the former have had a new body not just fresh paint ??!?

 

Thanks for this photo @Wickham Green too as it helps me to confirm that I was wrong and that the hopper is the same size on both wagons (having also looked at comparable photos on Paul's website.)

 

This helps me enormously as I model the West Highland in N and should now be able to use the Peco kits and some pedastal 3d printed chassis from Coventry Railworks to make decent models of the Grainflow wagons ... I had thought that there would be a lot more 'butchery' involved.

 

This has been a very useful thread to me, thanks to all. Just off to write out the word Whisky a 100 times as an educational improvement !! 🤣

 

Regards,

Ian.

 

Addendum .... or maybe not ... see post a couple of posts down !

Edited July 26 by 03060
Correction to statement !

[Enterprisingwestern]

50 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

Thanks all for the info - I can now get on and design and print some number transfers.

 

CJI.

 

 

Ooooh, interesting!

 

Mike.

[John Isherwood]

31 minutes ago, 03060 said:

Thanks for this photo @Wickham Green too as it helps me to confirm that I was wrong and that the hopper is the same size on both wagons (having also looked at comparable photos on Paul's website.)

 

This helps me enormously as I model the West Highland in N and should now be able to use the Peco kits and some pedastal 3d printed chassis from Coventry Railworks to make decent models of the Grainflow wagons ... I had thought that there would be a lot more 'butchery' involved.

 

This has been a very useful thread to me, thanks to all. Just off to write out the word Whisky a 100 times as an educational improvement !! 🤣

 

Regards,

Ian.

 

Look more closely!

 

Specifically the height of the vertical section at the top of the end. Without any doubt, the seven ribbed one is shallower than the ten ribbed one.

 

Also, there is a distinct difference in the height of the vertical section of the sides.

 

Sorry!

 

CJI.

 

[John Isherwood]

3 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

 

Ooooh, interesting!

 

Mike.

 

Sorry, just numbers - and for my own use only.

 

CJI.

[Wickham Green too]

If the livery of the nearer wagon was typical - and it looks like it might have been - then you're not going to need a lot of numbers !

[John Isherwood]

15 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

If the livery of the nearer wagon was typical - and it looks like it might have been - then you're not going to need a lot of numbers !

 

This 'whisky wagon' rake is purely an exercise in nostalgia - and will be in ex-works pristine condition.

 

It'll join my Roadrailer and Blue Circle 'Silver Queen' rakes.

 

CJI.

Edited July 26 by cctransuk