Places where national rail shares a facility with a heritage railway

[phil-b259]

50 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

@The Stationmaster - thanks for the confirmation.

 

Bodmin Parkway station is used by both mainline and heritage. It might not have a depot/workshop, but it does have sidings which make for lots of modelling scenarios.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And with a modellers licence* it could be developed into something along the lines the OP requires.

 

Put a Heritage railway diesel depot in those sidings then its possible to imagine a situation where a loco from the national network comes for fuelling on a regular basis (much like the DMUs used by Southern on its Ashford - Hastings run get fuelled and light maintenance done by the folk at St Leonards Railway engineering to save lots of wasted mileage running to / from Selhurst)

 

* I say modellers licence because for such a facility to be used then the Heritage side (and any controlling signalbox) would need to be staffed on a regular basis which is unlikely to be the case for most Heritage Railways - a FOC is not going to be impressed if their loco turns up and there is nobody to let it in to the facility or indeed do anything to it until the weekend)

Edited July 20 by phil-b259

[KeithMacdonald]

56 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

And your point is?

 

The O/P asked

Is there a place where Network rail or national rail operators share a site with a heritage railway,

 

But you said

In a word, no

 

@The Stationmaster and I are simply giving an example where the answer is yes.

[phil-b259]

12 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

The O/P asked

Is there a place where Network rail or national rail operators share a site with a heritage railway,

 

But you said

In a word, no

 

@The Stationmaster and I are simply giving an example where the answer is yes.

 

You are being selective in your quoting.

 

The OP asked:-

 

"Is there a place where Network rail or national rail operators share a site with a heritage railway, because I had an idea for my layout where there's a heritage railway centre but part of the facility it sits is a National rail yard or maybe a TMD.

 

(my emphasis)

 

The OP did not say they had an idea about cross platform interchange (e.g. Bodmin Parkway), whether there was a fence (e.g. Alton) or whether there wasn't one (e.g. Chosley) whether one run alongside another (Princess Risborough).

 

Thus I would say its pretty clear that the Op is NOT simply asking of locations where a Heritage Railway happens to coexists with the national rail network - the OP is asking about where the two co- exist in a specific circumstance - and in my reading of it where a Heritage Railway centre occupies exactly the same space as a FOC / TOC facility.

 

Thats why I used the phraseology I did - as although the answer to the first part the OPs question is yes, the OPs further clarification as to what they were specifically looking for is pretty much a firm 'no'

 

 

 

 

Edited July 20 by phil-b259

[big jim]

1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

But doe either of these activities occur on a daily basis? I can't imagine the SVR routinely employs a signalman at Kidderminster 24/7 daily for example so locos can come and go from the national network as they please

not on a daily basis but the signaller has to be present to accept the slot from the mainline onto SVR metals, that train I took on was about 01:00 in the morning so he was on duty for the moves on and off 

[Trainnoob]

If its useful information let me explain the made up story I had for my depot sharing with a heritage railway.

 

The railway center was originally a depot that was closed in the late 1960s or early 1970s, it laid derelict for an undecided amount of time until a millionaire who was a railway enthusiast bought the site and created a local railway society, and then in the 2000s the society came up with the idea of leasing 3 unused sidings that included a shed to network rail to increase available funds. The Leased out section was fenced off. It's the same facility but divided off.

 

Either that a more simple story is that locos are stored in the heritage railway center facility like barrow hill.

Edited July 20 by Trainnoob

[adb968008]

It depends on your era, and modellers licence.

 

Carnforth in the 1960’s was a depot shared by preservationists and BR.

 

You could always pretend the arrangement persisted.

 

Southall was a dream unfulfilled but could have been such a setup… sharing Southall station and running the Brentford branch is a really nice “could have been”.

Edited July 20 by adb968008

[Trainnoob]

1 minute ago, adb968008 said:

It depends on your era, and modellers licence.

 

Carnforth in the 1960’s was a depot shared by preservationists and BR.

 

You could always pretend the arrangement persisted.

Loosely Modern day late 90s to modern day for trains, scenically modern day.

Edited July 20 by Trainnoob

[Dungrange]

1 hour ago, big jim said:

Regard the OP question about a shared TMD Doesn’t Bo’ness host colas locos from Grangemouth? 

 

Is that not just for driver training?  If you have an inexperienced driver practising stopping a train on track with wet leaves, it's better to do such training on a heritage line than on the mainline.  The Bo'ness and Kinneil Railway is certainly used for the training of mainline drivers in such circumstances, but I don't think it's a regular usage.  It's just an example of a reason why a mainline locomotive may appear on a heritage facility (in addition to a gala day).

 

Aviemore is another example of a station where the mainline and a heritage railway coexist side by side, but the island platform between the two has a fence.  There is a direct rail connection to allow transfer of stock and I believe this is used by railtours where the railtour stock may be stabled overnight off the Network Rail owned track.

[Ben B]

What's the current situation at St.Blazey? There was a double-page spread in a recent mag showing a Black 5 being turned on the 'table. Looked like a lot of blocked-off tracks, a couple of modern china clay wagons being fixed, but a pair of old/under restoration diesel shunters (maybe Hunslets?) and some older wagons. Is it a commercial site that a heritage organisation rents a shed road off?

[melmerby]

4 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

Keighley and Grosmont are separate stations with separate entrances / exits

I thought Keighley had a shared footbridge and you could access the heritage line without exiting the station?

 

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Places where national rail shares a facility with a heritage railway

 

Aviemore Station

[phil-b259]

48 minutes ago, big jim said:

not on a daily basis but the signaller has to be present to accept the slot from the mainline onto SVR metals, that train I took on was about 01:00 in the morning so he was on duty for the moves on and off 

 

Not necessarily a hard thing to arrange by the SVR if enough notice is given so that personnel can be rostered or bought in to  cover - but its still rather different to a busy FOC / TOC stabling / servicing point with lots of movements throughout the day 7 days a week where signaller coverage needs to be pretty much contentious.

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

Thats why I used the phraseology I did - as although the answer to the first part the OPs question is yes, the OPs further clarification as to what they were specifically looking for is pretty much a firm 'no'

 

Tyseley's VT base exists within a NR site but the two company's operations are clearly separated, no shared facilities in the site apart from the access tracks.

[phil-b259]

3 minutes ago, melmerby said:

I thought Keighley had a shared footbridge and you could access the heritage line without exiting the station?

 

 

I haven't visited the KVWR personally so was going by internet imagery which appears to show the ramp leading down to the shared platform having barricades / fences of some sort at the bottom only allowing access to the NR side.

 

It could of course be the case that when the KWVR is operating a busy service and both platforms are needed for passenger use then the barricades / fences are removed / opened and if so I'm obviously very happy to be corrected

[adb968008]

You certainly cannot access Alton or Didcot sites without stepping on to a National Rail station.

 

A what might have been is perhaps the best way, I go back to Southall.. mainline station, run off branch, depot which even today is a shared / split fenced site, albeit it two different competing tocs only in the heritage market, but its not a long shot to split the site into modern one side of the fence, slightly shabby preserved on the other side.

 

 

imo this whole location, Southall eng sidings, Brentford Branch and Southall shed would make a fantastic preserved line.

Edited July 20 by adb968008

[melmerby]

13 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

I haven't visited the KVWR personally so was going by internet imagery which appears to show the ramp leading down to the shared platform having barricades / fences of some sort at the bottom only allowing access to the NR side.

 

It could of course be the case that when the KWVR is operating a busy service and both platforms are needed for passenger use then the barricades / fences are removed / opened and if so I'm obviously very happy to be corrected

I visited it a few years back and I can't remember leaving the station.

We got off the train on the Leeds side, went up the ramp then across the Footbridge to the far platform. IIRC there may have been a gate or something available to divide the Worth Valley bit from NR, if required.

 

EDIT

Gate's open on this image:

 

This one is open as well:

 

Edited July 20 by melmerby

[phil-b259]

47 minutes ago, Trainnoob said:

If its useful information let me explain the made up story I had for my depot sharing with a heritage railway.

 

The railway center was originally a depot that was closed in the late 1960s or early 1970s, it laid derelict for an undecided amount of time until a millionaire who was a railway enthusiast bought the site and created a local railway society, and then in the 2000s the society came up with the idea of leasing 3 unused sidings that included a shed to network rail to increase available funds. The Leased out section was fenced off. It's the same facility but divided off.

 

Either that a more simple story is that locos are stored in the heritage railway center facility like barrow hill.

 

Ahh I see. Well that sort of setup is not uncommon - though it doesn't usually involve Network Rail who have ample storage facilities and don't operate a huge fleet of motive power themselves.

 

[N.B. Please remeber that train depots are NOT usually owned by Network Rail! Instead NR will go and lease the land to a TOC or FOC who then becomes responsible for all other aspects of the site - from track and building maintenance to the day to day rail operations]

 

Instead its more usual to see train leasing companies, FOCs or charter operators like LSL take advantage of storage away from the national network as a way of reducing costs as even sitting in a siding will incur what amounts to a parking fee if said piece of rail is not owned by the loco / train owner.

 

Edited July 20 by phil-b259

[adb968008]

The original 1972 ELR plan was a shared station interchange at Bolton St.. would have made for an interesting mix of BR 3rd rail and Preserved. There was a plan for a Ramsbottom shed too, north of the crossing where the siding is today.

 

As it was BR vacated Bolton street in 1980.

 

 

 

 

[adb968008]

This one is shared footbridge infra too..

[phil-b259]

26 minutes ago, Ben B said:

What's the current situation at St.Blazey? There was a double-page spread in a recent mag showing a Black 5 being turned on the 'table. Looked like a lot of blocked-off tracks, a couple of modern china clay wagons being fixed, but a pair of old/under restoration diesel shunters (maybe Hunslets?) and some older wagons. Is it a commercial site that a heritage organisation rents a shed road off?

 

I think that St Blazey is technically still owned by DBS but they have gone and sub-leased the entire site to a non railway related organisation who in turn lets out the old shed buildings as industrial units. The turntable itself (and indeed the sheds) have to remain as they are listed buildings but the tuntable sat out of use for many years until some sort of grant funding could be arranged to repair it and its still a bit of a faff to use as the entire shed site is no longer in railway use.

[Michael Hodgson]

[adb968008]

There is alway blurring the lines and confusion as to whos side is who’s…

 

 

mainline steam makes it blurry anyway…

(The steam railway is on the left).

Edited July 20 by adb968008

[wombatofludham]

To be honest, why not adopt a "fictional plausibility" ethos and develop a plan that is fictional but builds on some of the advice here, such as fencing, to develop a layout you are happy with?  Taking on board the comments about Network Rail having a lot of their own siding and depot space, perhaps a freight operator has gained a new traffic flow which has necessitated a quick solution to finding a base, and your "millionaire enthusiast" has found a way to fence off part of the site to allow the FOC to have a stabling point, with some suitable portacabins as staff accommodation.  Fictional but plausible.

I had vague plans (which might still get activated if I ever get to finish my garage conversion layouts) of an Arriva Trains Wales service next to a fictional narrow gauge operation.  The idea was the narrow gauge ran on the trackbed of a long closed branch into what had been a seaside station served by two different routes into a common station, and ATW operate the other line into a new unstaffed halt next to, but physically separate from the NG operation on part of the old goods yard, with the NG engine shed and sidings between the station and the ATW halt, the idea being that BR (as was) vacated the main station and the costs of upkeep in favour of a simpler halt, and the NG operation restored the other line to narrow gauge operation and took on the station and most of the yard.  Similar to Aberystwyth, or for that matter Sheringham where BR vacated the old station and built a halt on the opposite side of the old level crossing.  A fictional scenario taking cues and inspiration from real life situations - or "fictional plausibility"!

[SED Freightman]

If the OP is looking for a TMD used by both heritage and commercial operators, then I suggest the section of St Leonards West Marina Depot operated by St Leonards Railway Engineering Ltd, home to the operational Hastings Unit and other SR DEMU stock, some of which is under restoration, whilst at the same time being regularly used by Southern for stabling (fuelling ?) Class 171's used on the Ashford - Eastbourne service and GB Railfreight for maintenance / exams / fuelling of Class 73's & 66's  which are regularly transferred to/from Tonbridge West Yd.

[adb968008]

Another option is two tmds…

 

very few steam era facilities are still in use as modern facilities.

what has often happened is the steam era facility ends up abandoned, becomes non railway use or demolished, whilst sidings on the opposite side become rebuilt with modern facilities.

 

So you could perhaps have the steam shed, same side as your preserved branch platform, whilst putting a modern servicing siding on the opposite side of the running line.