Feedback controller issue?

[Back2Trains]

I started a layout two years ago but only got part way, I am now back to it but have changed a few areas, in general board one is as it was with a few sidings changed.

 

Software: iTrain

Feedback Controller: Digikeijs DR4088LN

 

Last time I used the layout the feed backs worked, but now they are not doing so?

 

Power to the track and feedbacks are live.

iTrain is switched on.

 

When I put a loco on the track, in a block, it is not recognising it?

When I run the loco, block to block, it is not recognising it.

 

Any suggestions please?

 

Paul

[WIMorrison]

I suggest that you make sure that the DR4088LN has the same addresses that you are using in iTrain.

[Back2Trains]

Hi Iain

 

DR4088LN feedbacks are set and linked in order as they were before.

 

For Boards 1-2

First controller 1-16

Second controller 17-32

 

For boards 3-4 though not connected to track feedback at this stage, no track laid.

Additional DR4088LR & DR5088RC 

 

No matter what block I put a loco on the feedback doesn't light on the itrain layout.

 

All blocks are powered through the feedbacks, there are no direct Bus connections, I can run the loco but feedbacks are not working?

[franciswilliamwebb]

10 minutes ago, Back2Trains said:

No matter what block I put a loco on the feedback doesn't light on the itrain layout.

 

They may just have become faulty.  All of mine are long since binned having ceased to detect even though they still powered the track.  The easiest way to check this, assuming you have a Windows machine, is to use the Digikeijs configuration app rather than iTrain.

[WIMorrison]

There isn’t a configuration app for the DR4088xx from Digikeijs or anyone else.

 

Perhaps you mean to look at the LocoNet monitor on the DR5000 app (assuming he has a DR5000). The YD7001 app will also enable the same if the DR5000 has been converted. Other systems, such as Z21, also have a built in LocoNet monitor.

[franciswilliamwebb]

2 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

There isn’t a configuration app for the DR4088xx from Digikeijs or anyone else.

 

Perhaps you mean to look at the LocoNet monitor on the DR5000 app

 

Possibly, I'm going from memory here as all of mine expired a year or more ago.  Whatever it was, you could tell if the unit was a) detecting occupancy and b) detecting a Railcom ID.  Most useful, I found.

[WIMorrison]

Definitely would be detecting Railcom ID because DR4088xx cannot detect Railcom - you may be thinking of DR5088RC which is very different from DR4088xx.

 

BTW, I have been using 9 x DR5088RC for more than 8 years without a single issue.

[franciswilliamwebb]

3 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

Definitely would be detecting Railcom ID because DR4088xx cannot detect Railcom - you may be thinking of DR5088RC which is very different from DR4088xx.

 

BTW, I have been using 9 x DR5088RC for more than 8 years without a single issue.

 

Note that I didn't say that Digikeijs produced a configuration app for the DR4088xx.

 

Note that the OP states he's using DR4088LR AND DR5088RC so those are both what I'm thinking of.

 

I'm bowing out here as I think you're just taking the p!ss...

 

 

[WIMorrison]

OP's post

16 hours ago, Back2Trains said:

Software: iTrain

Feedback Controller: Digikeijs DR4088LN

 

Looks pretty clear to me that he is using DR4088LN

 

37 minutes ago, franciswilliamwebb said:

is to use the Digikeijs configuration app rather than iTrain.

 

3 minutes ago, franciswilliamwebb said:

Note that I didn't say that Digikeijs produced a configuration app for the DR4088xx.

 

Note that the OP states he's using DR4088LR AND DR5088RC so those are both what I'm thinking of.

 

I'm bowing out here as I think you're just taking the p!ss...

 

As I already stated there is no configuration app for the DR4088xx (the only product the OP says he is using) from Digikeijs or from anyone else. All of the configuration is done on the DR4088xx using accessory addresses.

 

Note that I haven't done or said anything other than correct your continuing series of posts that contain totally incorrect information which are misinforming readers.

[Back2Trains]

Thanks Iain and franciswilliamwebb

 

Good and not so good, but a step forward and half back isn't as bad as two back.

 

I just had some lunch and whilst thinking, as we do, I though best check the input cables in the DR34088LR's. The first one had slipped out! So I put it back in and noticed the clicking in is quite weak, may need to change this but for now it is in.

 

Next loco on blocks and test, thinking what I had done was correct, some definitely but also some issues to back track on.

 

In 'every' block I get the following.

- Loco detected in correct position in the block

- but also additional feedbacks are ON, F2, F4, F6, F7 & F8

- Additional issue, is that the feedback in Reverse Loop Block also comes on, but only when the loco is running and goes off again when loco stops, where ever the loco is, which ever block the loco is in.

 

Back to re-tracing all the wires, any suggestions gratefully received.

 

I will get there this time. It is great to see a loco running even on the bit of track laid.

 

Thanks again for your help and suggestions,.

 

Paul

[WIMorrison]

Paul,

 

I assume that you mean DR4088LN and not some other beast? 😂

 

How are you switching the reverse loop, and how are your detecting the occupancy? It could be false occupancy caused either by wiring or the reverse loop controller.

 

23 minutes ago, Back2Trains said:

- but also additional feedbacks are ON, F2, F4, F6, F7 & F8

Do you mean that these are on when there is no loco in the feedback section, and that they come on when the loco appears in the correct location as you describe above?

[Back2Trains]

Second part of your reply Iain,

 

F2, 4, 6, 7 & 8 are on 'all the time' with nothing on the track, I have just traced each red wire from the DR4088LN (Not the beast 🤣) to the feedback and they are all correct. I have not double checked the return wire yet blue, it is my next job.

 

I will attach two screen grabs, the first is with loco at F13, Southdown P1.

 

The second is once the loco is moving, RLB 

 

 

[WIMorrison]

There are several potential causes that might need you to do some work.  I am assuming that all the feedbacks switch off when you remove the loco?

 

You need to isolate the cause which could be;

1. leakage across the track through ballast, damp, etc.
2. cross-talk caused by wiring bundled together and/or small wire gauge e.g. 7/0.2
3. faulty unit

For 1 & 2 you need to disconnect a feedback from the track and see what happens. If you disconnect F2 from the track** and it still shows occupied then remove the loco from the track. If it now shows clear then #2 is the likely cause. If you disconnect F2 and the occupancy disappears then it is probably #1. Repeat this for all the feedbacks and see what happens.

 

The cure for #2 is to place a 470Ω resistor between the terminal for the offending track and the C terminal.  You may have to do this on all of the offending contacts. The cure for #1 is to dry out the track/ballast and give it really good clean.

 

** do not disconnect from the DR4088LN, disconnect at the track end.

 

To check for a faulty unit you will need to rewire from DR4088LN #1 onto DR4088LN #2 and see if the fault follows the unit. If the fault does not follow then it looks like a duff unit which I find unusual. I can only ever recall one faulty unit and that was because the person tried to do rewiring with the track live and shorted out the DR4088LN.

[Back2Trains]

Reverse Loop sorted.

 

I had moved IRJ's near T206 to add bus power to the turn outs, the wires were one inch wrong side of the IRJ's 

 

That is out of the way, thank you.

 

Regarding the lit feedbacks they are on all the time, with or without a loco on the track. I have checked all feedback wires from the DR4088LN, they are all OK. I have checked the second wire back to the BUS, they are OK

 

I will check again, if I still have the issue I will clean the track with isopropanol.

[WIMorrison]

are the wires to the fauly feedback running beside the track bus, or even bundled up with the track bus?

 

[Back2Trains]

No

 

Feedbacks:

F7 has cleared itself, not sure why or how but it doesn't really matter. I did clean the track with isopropanol first.

 

So I am left with F2, 4, 6, 8 all on the far end or towards the buffer end.

 

I cut the wires one by one and as I did the feedback went off. No power, but it proves they were to correct positions.

 

I then put the loco on each section, feedback entry end works fine, feedback opposite end dead. 

 

Would you thing we are at this stage? Place a 470Ω resistor between the terminal for the offending track and the C terminal.

 

If so what is the C terminal?

Where would I purchase them?

 

Many thanks

 

Paul

[WIMorrison]

26 minutes ago, Back2Trains said:

I cut the wires one by one and as I did the feedback went off. No power, but it proves they were to correct positions.

 

Did you cut the wires at the track end? If you did and the feedback you cut switched off then that point to a fault on the track. Check the isolation, the ballast, everything. A DR4088LN will show occupancy with only 1mA of current.

[Back2Trains]

Yes Iain, I cut the wire at the solder joint near the feedback, I never cut the other end as it would undo all the work from the Feedback controller, wires are run through and tagged using masking tape so I know what they all are. What I do is prepare and add droppers as I lay the track, note the co-ordinates, then run the feeder wire from the DR4088LN and solder to the dropper.

 

When I replied to your question about grouping of wires I answered based on board one, thinking about this later I did run groups of wires, insulation taped together from board one to board to and the edge of board three. I think it might be an idea to split these based on your comments and see if it makes a difference. 

 

I will check and change these items tomorrow, I will also look at the IRJ's as I tapped the rail ends up to close the joint, it may of punctured some of them. This option is worth checking but I doubt that would be the problem as it is not just one item.

 

Moving forward, thanks for your help.

 

Paul

[Back2Trains]

Hi Iain

 

I am using the DR5000 DIGISTATION with Feedback controllers DR4088LN and DR5088RC, though DR5088RC is not connected to any track yet.

 

The feedbacks were working initially, so I don't think there will be any issues with DR5000

 

See image of DR5000 connections - nothing changed here.

 

See sketch image of DR4088LN & DR5088RC wires and loconet cables.

 

There is one thing I noticed when removing the control boards, the top of DR4088LN is not connected to the top of DR5088RC, I am not sure if these should be connected, were connected, or maybe pulled out with help lifting the boards? Would this be the issue?

 

The loco does not show the block as occupied, none do, but there is power to the track and I can manually run a loco
 

[WIMorrison]

13 minutes ago, Back2Trains said:

The loco does not show the block as occupied

Where are you not seeing that that the block is not occupied? (I assume you mean feedback is not occupied).

 

PS - it would be a lot easier to continue this discussion only on one forum.

 

 

[Back2Trains]

On the Switchboard, loco in F11 

Everything switched on

Block shows occupied, feedback does not show loco position in the block, (red light effect) at start or any other block

 

If I drive loco manually on the track

F11, F10, F15, F14

F11, F10, F17, F16 or any other block or route

F16, F17, F6, F5 etc

 

The red light, feedback icon doesn't change to show where the loco is, the loco on the switchboard leaves the loco in it's original block. (F11 SD-P1 Block)

 

If I simulate the route in the switchboard only, loco forward, then double clicking the feedback, the feedbacks and the blocks work on screen.

 

It seems so near yet so far away at present.

 

 

[WIMorrison]

iTrain forum is the best place for answers on iTrain issues, and also where I posted a series of actions for you to undertake. If you reply to those in that thread it will be easier for us to provide support as we will then know what you can see, and exactly what you have dome to try and isolate the cause.