Tenders for shunters

[Simon60]

Came across an eBay item showing as an LNER adapted open wagon for use behind a shunter providing extra coal but also acting as a shunter’s wagon

 

Does anyone have details of any era 3 diagrams or adaptations meant for this role, and any kits available?

Edited July 19 by Simon60
Mistyped title

[Tumut]

Hello Simon,

 

Connoisseur Models to an O Gauge / 7mm kit of a Loco Depot Tender Truck (ref PMK 48), and you can download the Instructions (and photos!) for information. The model depicted was common in the BR ScR Glasgow area, the NCB also used it at a number of collieries in Britain, some companies are also known to have used a wooden Internal User coal wagon that was towed by the locomotive; so plenty of inspiration there.

 

Neilson Pug (0-4-0sT) were used by both the Caledonian , & North British railways, the Neilson Pug was an "of the shelf" (rtr!) industrial locomotive that was also used by industry. The on line LNER Encyclopaedia also has some useful information, and Model Rail magazine years ago had an article on this subject.

 

If you model 4mm, a second hand timber coal wagon cut be cut down, and modified to suit. This could also be used as a power pick up tender.

 

Hope this helps, best wishes and regards from Australia, Tumut.

[Simon60]

Thanks so much for the speedy reply 

I’m looking at 00 but as you say, the Connoisseur plan would be a great guide for a conversion 

best wishes from UK to Australia 

[Wheatley]

I suspect the best you can do is look at photographs and then try to match them to something available and convertible. I believe there are diagrams, but in a generic "need to put something in the diagram book" way rather than any of them being an accurate General Arrangement drawing. Shunters' trucks are the same - the GWR built them to an actual drawing, the LMS stuck some footboards and a handrail on whichever redundant 9'0" wagon was presented for conversion.     

 

I built one for a CR Pug, I have several photos of the prototype loco over a ten year period and it's got a noticeably different wagon in each of them. The LNER ones look similarly diverse although i've not studied them in any detail. The Connoissseur kit certainly looks 'typical'. 

 

Edited July 19 by Wheatley

[Rich Uncle Skeleton]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/196490287374?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=7NGT9XstTyC&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=vyekjkh8r6s&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY Rails of Sheffield have this one on eBay.

[jacko]

19 minutes ago, Rich Uncle Skeleton said:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/196490287374?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=7NGT9XstTyC&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=vyekjkh8r6s&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY Rails of Sheffield have this one on eBay.

Assuming that's meant to be coal in the truck, none of those lumps would fit through the firedoor.  Would the fireman not have dressed them before they set off?

 

Graeme

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Picture in the LNER Encyclopedia piece about the Y9.

https://www.lner.info/locos/Y/y9.php

My impression of these wagons converted into tenders is that they were typically old short wheelbase all wooden construction wagons, with 4 plank sides or thereabouts.

 

The illustration of the NBR Jubilee wagon below is the sort of thing, the end door simple to remove to provide easy access, Oxford Rail produced a RTR OO version, and there are plenty of OO kits of like wagons available.

https://railsofsheffield.com/products/parkside-ps01-lner-jubilee-coal-wagon?variant=42776042504383&currency=GBP&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=google%2Bshopping&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwnei0BhB-EiwAA2xuBomS29mVvIHs-GwR0eq6M2US4uHBylRmkxViY5o1FXtIDQqnUHTQbRoCA2cQAvD_BwE

 

 

[Simon60]

Thank you all that’s really helpful 

[cypherman]

Hi Simon,

00Bill on Youtube shows how easy it is to put a tender on a Hornby Pug.

 

[Halvarras]

On 19/07/2024 at 15:35, Rich Uncle Skeleton said:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/196490287374?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=7NGT9XstTyC&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=vyekjkh8r6s&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY Rails of Sheffield have this one on eBay.

 

Judging by the wheel guards this tender appears to be mounted on a GWR shunter's truck underframe which, although perhaps not the ideal solution, does achieve short length with footboards already fitted (this may seem extravagant but at one point the shelves were awash with shunter's trucks by both Bachmann and Hornby, and overproduction by the latter resulted in prices sinking as low as £6.99 - perhaps this combo dates back to then).

 

This is probably not the ideal solution either, being a scale 10' wheelbase, but it may appeal to budding 'Pug' tender builders wondering how to add the pick-ups:

Lendons of Cardiff sell these underframes (X7397/7397W (weathered version)) already fitted with pick-ups for £2.98, which qualifies for their low postage rate. I think this version is from the Ruston 48DS diesel's runner wagon and the weathered version is from the TTS sound-fitted vent van. Just in case it's of interest 🙂!

[phil_sutters]

[Daddyman]

The Connoisseur Models one represents one type used behind Y9s (and no other class in no other region, despite Connoisseur's best attempts to sell kits); from photos it looks like these became obsolete at some point in the 1940s. The standard one by BR days had a longer wheelbase. One at Kipps was converted from a "modern" standard goods open of some sort. 

I'd question the claim that the later late LNER/BR ones were converted from redundant ex-NBR wagons as the wheelbase matches nothing in the NBR diagram books. I seem to remember contacting the NBRSG some years ago and they also had no idea where the tenders came from. Dr Euan Cameron's authoritative articles on the class in the NBRSG journal make no mention of the tenders' origins. I simply scaled mine from side-on-photos, knowing the wheelbase of the loco.  

Edited July 22 by Daddyman

[Dave John]

There is a drawing available from the CRA , the notes of which start "Engine tenders were the most varied in design of all the CR wagon fleet". 

Basically a pre diagram frame, outside W irons, add body locally made. Mainly dumb buffers I think, some got self contained buffers later. 

[DCB]

For an 00  model an old spit chassis Triang underframe with Bachmann split axle wheels will provide pick up with no added friction

Edited July 25 by DCB

[Frappington Jct]

If you want something a bit different to the Pug tenders above, industrial lines sometimes made their own unique ones as well (I think out of redundant wagons). Cannock Chase Colliery's Sharp Stewart No.6 for example ran with one for many years - https://chasewaterrailwaymuseum.blog/2017/09/22/chasewater-railway-museum-catalogue-album-1-local-colliery-locos/05122-no-6-0-6-0st-sharp-stewart-2643-1876/

 

It's a slightly simpler design maybe to scratch build than the NBR examples, not that I think the NBR one would be that difficult! I used a Cambrian GWR shunters truck kit as the basis as I had it lying around but any redundant short underframe works.