N.Woolwich dmu

[Tug]

Hiya, could anyone tell me the class emu that ran between n.woolwich, Stratford and Tottenham Hale please? Thanks 

Edited July 16 by Tug
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[Darius43]

I recall seeing pictures of Class 105 units at North Woolwich, although other DMU classes are available.
 

North Woolwich DMU

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[08221]

Mainly SF based 104s, 105s and 116s 🙂

[Jeremy Cumberland]

Here's the Railcar.co.uk page for Stratford depot: https://railcar.co.uk/depot/stratford

 

I don't think the North Woolwich line had any restrictions, so it might see anything they had, and they could be in any combination, so long as it had some engines, there was a cab at each end and a brake somewhere in the middle. Stratford didn't exactly go in for fixed formations.

[Darius43]

 

EMU rather than DMU but interesting nonetheless especially the Stratford to North Woolwich section which has been totally transformed since this was filmed in 1987.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[Cwmtwrch]

5 hours ago, Tug said:

Hiya, could anyone tell me the class emu that ran between n.woolwich, Stratford and Tottenham Hale please? Thanks 

I'm open to correction, but I don't think EMUs ever ran to Tottenham Hale; I think the other terminus was changed when the North Woolwich line was electrified. Certainly by the time I used the line the service went to Richmond. Memory suggested SR 2-EPB sets with barred droplights because of restricted clearance in the tunnel, later replaced by class 313 so I checked - see the links below. The other "round the top" service, which I also used, was operated by DMUs and ran from Barking to Kentish Town, later changed to Gospel Oak.

Some sites/pictures, in no particular order, which may be of interest

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:North_Woolwich_station_-_geograph.org.uk_-_134066.jpg

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/north-woolwich-station-with-unit-6313-in-1985-photo-on-flickr-tom-burnham-the-original-station-building-had-been-resto--91127592440628989/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/91534044@N04/8672176976

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/n/north_woolwich/

[Jeremy Cumberland]

16 minutes ago, Cwmtwrch said:

I'm open to correction, but I don't think EMUs ever ran to Tottenham Hale; I think the other terminus was changed when the North Woolwich line was electrified. Certainly by the time I used the line the service went to Richmond. Memory suggested SR 2-EPB sets with barred droplights because of restricted clearance in the tunnel, later replaced by class 313 so I checked - see the links below. The other "round the top" service, which I also used, was operated by DMUs and ran from Barking to Kentish Town, later changed to Gospel Oak.

Some sites/pictures, in no particular order, which may be of interest

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:North_Woolwich_station_-_geograph.org.uk_-_134066.jpg

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/north-woolwich-station-with-unit-6313-in-1985-photo-on-flickr-tom-burnham-the-original-station-building-had-been-resto--91127592440628989/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/91534044@N04/8672176976

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/n/north_woolwich/

I agree with you about EMUs not running to Tottenham Hale.

 

I don't know when trains from North Woolwich stopped running to Tottenham Hale. Prior to 14th May 1979, North Woolwich to Tottenham Hale via Stratford Low Level was the only service. This is shown in my 1977 OPC Rail Atlas.

 

On 14th May 1979, a new diesel service was introduced between Camden Road and North Woolwich. I am not sure what then happened to the Tottenham Hale service. It still ran to Stratford (and my 1980 OPC Rail Atlas shows it still using the low level platforms), but I don't know if it continued to North Woolwich. At some point the service was transferred to the high level plaforms, but that might not have been till after North Woolwich became part of the North London Line, and I seem to recall that at some time in the late 70s or early 80s some trains used Stratford High Level and others used Stratford Low Level.

 

North Woolwich was electrified in January 1985 and passenger services commenced over the North London Line to Richmond on 13th May 1985, using 2-EPBs. As far as I am aware, class 501s never ran to North Woolwich apart from a special on 11th May 1985, but since the 501s survived until October that year, I suppose it is possible that they were used, but by then they were only scheduled to work Watford line trains (including Watford-Broad Street). The bars on the windows, incidentally, were for Hampstead Heath tunnel, and nothing to do with the North Woolwich line as such. The 2-EPBs were replaced by class 313s in late 1989.

 

The passenger service between Stratford and Tottenham Hale, still diesel operated, was withdrawn on 5th July 1985, and here is a picture showing the last train after arrival at Stratford High Level:

[Ray H]

Back in the mid 60s the routine DMUs were 2 car Met Cam units - I believe they were the yellow diamond variety and not what eventually became the Class 101s. They were generally (always?) limited to the Stratford - North Woolwich section.

 

There were 3 car Rolls Royce units - I think they were orange star - that ran between North Woolwich and Lea Bridge (?) in the rush hours only.

 

The Met Cams also worked Romford to Upminster and Wickford to Southminster although I think that I recall the Rolls Royce units running that service as well.

 

I think that the Met Cams also ran the night staff trains to/from Epping (LTE) via the connection at Leyton.

[Cwmtwrch]

19 hours ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

North Woolwich was electrified in January 1985 and passenger services commenced over the North London Line to Richmond on 13th May 1985, using 2-EPBs. As far as I am aware, class 501s never ran to North Woolwich apart from a special on 11th May 1985, but since the 501s survived until October that year, I suppose it is possible that they were used, but by then they were only scheduled to work Watford line trains (including Watford-Broad Street). The bars on the windows, incidentally, were for Hampstead Heath tunnel, and nothing to do with the North Woolwich line as such.

Southern Region 2-EPBs never worked through Hampstead Heath tunnel, or on the Watford line generally AFAIK nor did LMR units reach N Woolwich in normal service, There was no connection between the services except at Willesden, where the Watford line was Low Level and the Richmond - N Woolwich line High Level [I think that Broad Street closed at about the same time as the N Woolwich line was electrified?]. The bars on the droplights of the 2-EPB sets on the North Woolwich line were there because of the restricted size of the tunnel under the link between the Royal Victoria Dock and the Royal Albert Dock.

Edited July 17 by Cwmtwrch
Amendments

[Darius43]

11 minutes ago, Cwmtwrch said:

Southern Region 2-EPBs never worked through Hampstead Heath tunnel

 

Do you mean this tunnel?  Shown on the EPB cab ride video that I posted earlier.

 

Cheers

 

Darius
 

[Jeremy Cumberland]

23 minutes ago, Cwmtwrch said:

Southern Region 2-EPBs never worked through Hampstead Heath tunnel

Hampstead Heath Tunnel is on the North London Line, between Finchley Road and Frognal and Hampstead Heath stations. The parallel tunnels on the Euston line are Primrose Hill Tunnels, and between these and Hampstead Heath Tunnel are the Belzize Park Tunnels on the Midland.

 

27 minutes ago, Cwmtwrch said:

There was no connection between the services except at Willesden, where the Watford line was Low Level and the Richmond - N Woolwich line High Level

There is also a connection at Primrose Hill (Camden Junction to Camden Road Junction), which is what most Watford - Broad Street trains used, with just one or two a day using the Willesden Low Level to Kensal Green Junction chord. I accidentally caught one once when heading to Queens Park and had to bail out at Kensal Rise and get a North London back to Willesden Junction (High Level).

 

37 minutes ago, Cwmtwrch said:

I think that Broad Street closed at about the same time as the N Woolwich line was electrified?

30 June 1986, when Watford - City trains were changed to Liverpool Street instead. I am not sure whether the delay was due to Graham Road Curve not being ready in time or delays in replacing the dc class 501s with dual voltage 313s on the Watford service (Graham Road Curve and the line to Liverpool Street was 25kv overhead). Class 501s had all been scheduled for withdrawal at the timetable change in May 1985, but problems in making enough class 313s available meant that the last 501s weren't withdrawn till October (whatever Wikipedia might say).

 

58 minutes ago, Cwmtwrch said:

The bars on the droplights of the 2-EPB sets on the North Woolwich line were there because of the restricted size of the tunnel under the link between the Royal Victoria Dock and the Royal Albert Dock.

If that's the case, why didn't the Stratford DMUs have bars?

 

Very few places on BR require window bars, and offhand I can think of only three: Hampstead Heath Tunnel, Maryport to Carlisle (where several overbridges were built for a reduced "six foot") and Oxted Tunnel, when HMRI finally decided that something needed to be done about the limited clearance at the time of electrification in 1987. I was wondering about the Hastings lines (from both Tonbridge and Ashford), which also had restricted clearances, but I don't think window bars were ever required.

[Oldddudders]

2 hours ago, Cwmtwrch said:

Southern Region 2-EPBs never worked through Hampstead Heath tunnel

Amazing news. In the video on this thread, at Caley Road the camera train passes a 2-EPB, suitably window-barred, heading westbound, obviously for Richmond. Pray how did it get there without going through Ham Heath Tunnel?

 

It is my belief this vid was shot from a 2-EPB. As we leave Richmond, there is the connection to the up Windsor Line, laid in circa 1985/6 especially, so the EPBs from Selhurst could access the NLL platforms at Richmond, allowing 501s to be withdrawn. I know that was why it was laid in because I chaired the meeting at which it was agreed between the Regions. 

[Cwmtwrch]

52 minutes ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

Hampstead Heath Tunnel is on the North London Line, between Finchley Road and Frognal and Hampstead Heath stations.

 

7 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

In the video on this thread, at Caley Road the camera train passes a 2-EPB, suitably window-barred, heading westbound, obviously for Richmond

OK, I misunderstood which tunnel was meant [I plead that it's around 40 years since I lived in London and there are a number of tunnels in the area].

 

56 minutes ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

If that's the case, why didn't the Stratford DMUs have bars?

Or the steam trains? Changes in attitudes to risks, I suspect, plus changes in responsibility for the services involved.

 

58 minutes ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

30 June 1986, when Watford - City trains were changed to Liverpool Street instead.

Thanks. I lived in Forest Gate when the N Woolwich line was electrified, so I travelled into Liverpool Street, or used the Barking - Gospel Oak DMU at weekends; I didn't move to Woolwich until after Broad Street closed, and then commuted into London Bridge and caught the ferry, or more often walked, over to N Woolwich to use the North London line.

 

2 hours ago, Darius43 said:

Do you mean this tunnel?  Shown on the EPB cab ride video that I posted earlier.

No, the twin single bores in the middle of http://www.forgottenrelics.org/tunnels/silvertown-connaught-tunnel/. The bars were required for both tunnels, perhaps? The whole thing was rebuilt by Crossrail much later.

[Cwmtwrch]

1 hour ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

I was wondering about the Hastings lines (from both Tonbridge and Ashford), which also had restricted clearances, but I don't think window bars were ever required.

Possibly because that line used narrower stock?

[pete_mcfarlane]

And only betweenTonbridge to Hastings. The Marshlink line from Ashford has always been able to take standard width stock, even if it was sometimes worked using narrower restriction 0 carriages.

[Darius43]

40 minutes ago, Cwmtwrch said:

No, the twin single bores in the middle of http://www.forgottenrelics.org/tunnels/silvertown-connaught-tunnel/. The bars were required for both tunnels, perhaps? The whole thing was rebuilt by Crossrail much later.

Except you called the tunnel that the EPBs never went through “Hampstead Heath Tunnel” and I was posting a still from the cab of an EPB about to travel through Hampstead Heath Tunnel.

 

Here’s a still from the same cab of the EPB entering Connaught Tunnel.

 

Cheers

 

Darius