Minories inspired L shaped - Suburban London

[Blackvault]

I hope you're all well.

 

I've developed a Minories-inspired layout for a converted garage.  The layout is an L shaped with a transverse fiddle yard with two loco sidings in the back scene behind the curve track leading to the station. I took inspiration from Harelquin's transverse with the turntable at the end to allow locos to be turned and sent up adjacent fiddle yard tracks.  Ideally, the layout would be semi-permanent but needs to have the ability to be dismantled and stacked in the corner.  The garage has to serve as a bar/entertainment/dumping ground space when required, and as such I'd thought of a 5-foot, 6-foot and 2-3-foot board, plus a fiddle yard board with a detachable turntable at the bottom.  

I'd ideally like to base the layout on suburban trains leaving Kings Cross in the late 50s, or early 60s. Using small tank engines and suburban stock.  I might have the odd '64 ft MK1 rake but otherwise, it would be classic Minories. 

 

This is full of space and divided into 1 foot square.  Unfortunately, any layout will have to go this ordination due to two doors which aren't marked. The grey square is where a harth sits for a log burner and while it is typically not in use, I've got to accommodate it. 

The grey is the platform while the brown is buildings, either the station or goods buildings or the back of terraces along the top. 

 

 

A closer look at the station area, with P1 and P2 both serving as arrivals and departures and a middle road for carriages. I'm not sure how prototypical they would be in the era I'm modelling, but I'm aware that the likes of Kings Cross originally only had two platforms and carriage sidings in between. My rationale for keeping it is that it would require too much station redevelopment costs, plus it gives me somewhere to store a carriage or two on science.

 

As can be seen, Platform 3 is significantly shorter than the two main platforms, but I feel that might give me more operational interest.  I'm not sure how prototypical a small goods building, the brown square and un/loading platform would be in a terminus in London. There were large goods sheds and yards where the majority of the traffic would arrive and depart, but I felt it needed something else other than passenger coaches to give variety.  Is this attempt at providing the variety, worthwhile?  In reality, would the goods area be significantly larger?

 

One area that I'm not sure what to do with is the front of the layout between the headshunt and the edge of the baseboard. I don't really want to add more tracks but I'm unsure what I'd model there, and therefore I'd welcome suggestions. 

 

 

This final picture tries to convent the length of trains operating on the layout. Each coach is a MK1, and while I do not plan to run those, and use shorter '57 Suburban stock, it helps give the length of trains. The items sitting in platforms are meant to mimic a loco, 5 coaches and another loco at the rear ready to take the train outbound.  The coaches on the outbound curve represent how far into the fiddle yard a shunter would need to draw out a set of coaches to move them to another platform. 

 

It must be said that it could be a year or two before I'm able to make this a reality, but I thought I'd develop something and start saving the pennies! 

 

I'm more than happy to receive, comments, feedback or criticism on the plan :) 

[woodenhead]

I might be inclined to swap the left hand point on the shunting neck for a right hand so that the shunting neck follows the other tracks rather than heading off in a straight line.

 

Minories should be in a space constrained area, they wouldn't have the luxury of that space for a shunting neck, that area would be covered in buildings.

[Blackvault]

33 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

I might be inclined to swap the left hand point on the shunting neck for a right hand so that the shunting neck follows the other tracks rather than heading off in a straight line.

 

Minories should be in a space constrained area, they wouldn't have the luxury of that space for a shunting neck, that area would be covered in buildings.

I'd tried that, and it didn't allow me to fit the entire length of a freight train or coaches, but then is that where the challenge of shunting would come into play? :)  I suppose doing it this way would give me more space to model the city space where the termius station is supposed to reside. 

 

I can get 5 wagons plus the brake van. The coach attached to it is supposed to be a shunter, so I might get one more wagon.  The second line of coaches is a shunter and two coaches. The change does add more operational interest. Thanks :) 

Edited July 16 by Blackvault
adding picture of change

[woodenhead]

You could also employ some flexitrack for the shunting neck and then curve it a little to follow the other lines, being a sharper curve should not be an issue if the loco is a shunter and you are using short wheelbase freight stock.

[ColinK]

I like the plan, especially the carriage siding between the platforms which makes it look more spacious with a very useful siding that adds in some extra shunting. I would have a control panel im the space in front of the headshunt, unless you had a model of something like the Guiness brewery with a narrow gauge railway.

[woodenhead]

How about a sort of widened lines station, through in some Metropolitan steam and GWR steam with 61xx + short toplights from Dapol.

 

Fully justifiable fast turnaround services.

[Flying Pig]

I'm not convinced by the sidings accessed via a headshunt.  If you look at Kings Cross, for example, the sidings have direct access to the running lines and I think that is typical.  However, if you retain the headshunt, I don't think it is too much of a problem if you can't shunt the entire train, as platform 3 would be used for arrivals and departures.

 

One thing you really should address is how you accommodate the change in track spacing from Setrack to Steamline.  A short straight in the outer crossover would be much better than the wiggle you have now, which will be hard to lay without introducing kinks that will affect running.

[Gordon A]

I cannot see any run round loop or means of releasing the loco on a train just arrived?

[33C]

3 hours ago, Blackvault said:

One area that I'm not sure what to do with is the front of the layout between the headshunt and the edge of the baseboard. I don't really want to add more tracks but I'm unsure what I'd model there, and therefore I'd welcome suggestions

When in doubt, gas works!

[5BarVT]

32 minutes ago, Flying Pig said:

One thing you really should address is how you accommodate the change in track spacing from Setrack to Steamline.  A short straight in the outer crossover would be much better than the wiggle you have now, which will be hard to lay without introducing kinks that will affect running.

Agreed.

Or use a 22.5 degree curve as the last set track piece and use streamline for the last section of curve which should automagically give you a nice transition.  (Connect at one end and sweep round to the other adjusting as required til it looks right.  Then trim to that length and fit.)

Paul.

[Blackvault]

1 hour ago, ColinK said:

I like the plan, especially the carriage siding between the platforms which makes it look more spacious with a very useful siding that adds in some extra shunting. I would have a control panel im the space in front of the headshunt, unless you had a model of something like the Guiness brewery with a narrow gauge railway.

 

I love the idea of the Guinness factory, I am Northern Irish after all!

 

1 hour ago, Flying Pig said:

I'm not convinced by the sidings accessed via a headshunt.  If you look at Kings Cross, for example, the sidings have direct access to the running lines and I think that is typical.  However, if you retain the headshunt, I don't think it is too much of a problem if you can't shunt the entire train, as platform 3 would be used for arrivals and departures.

 

One thing you really should address is how you accommodate the change in track spacing from Setrack to Steamline.  A short straight in the outer crossover would be much better than the wiggle you have now, which will be hard to lay without introducing kinks that will affect running.

32 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

Agreed.

Or use a 22.5 degree curve as the last set track piece and use streamline for the last section of curve which should automagically give you a nice transition.  (Connect at one end and sweep round to the other adjusting as required til it looks right.  Then trim to that length and fit.)

Paul.

Thanks for that suggestion, I wasn't sure how to solve the wiggle, and I agree it looks awful in the plan. 

I'll alter the plan with no headshunt and direct running into the sidings and see how it looks.  I would envision the goods being delivered early in the morning and later at night outside of peak times, and therefore shunting on the mainline would be acceptable. 

 

1 hour ago, Gordon A said:

I cannot see any run round loop or means of releasing the loco on a train just arrived?

There isn't one within the Minories plan. The premise of the Minories plan is to have another loco couple to the back of the train and depart, leaving the inbound loco to be released. I'd thought about having one in either P1 or P2 but it takes too much room. 

 

Edited July 16 by Blackvault
adding thoughts on the headshunt

[stivesnick]

I agree that the passenger services would not need a loco release and that another loco would back onto the train. For the goods train, a loop might be useful. You could extend the headshunt to join the incoming line just before the curve into the fiddle yard. The track could run in front of or behind the signal box. 

 

Don't forget that mail and newspapers were are big part of many London stations. 

 

What is the basic scenery concept? For a London station, the tracks would normally be in a cutting or up on a viaduct. So the space in front of the headshunt would be at ground level and different to the track level - so city buildings or space for the control panel behind some buildings as suggested previously.

 

Hope this is useful.

 

Nick 

[Blackvault]

21 minutes ago, stivesnick said:

I agree that the passenger services would not need a loco release and that another loco would back onto the train. For the goods train, a loop might be useful. You could extend the headshunt to join the incoming line just before the curve into the fiddle yard. The track could run in front of or behind the signal box. 

 

Don't forget that mail and newspapers were are big part of many London stations. 

 

What is the basic scenery concept? For a London station, the tracks would normally be in a cutting or up on a viaduct. So the space in front of the headshunt would be at ground level and different to the track level - so city buildings or space for the control panel behind some buildings as suggested previously.

 

Hope this is useful.

 

Nick 

 

I'd thought of having the station in a cutting, and maybe another road bridge in the middle of the platforms, sweeping around to meet the road bridge that acts as the scenic break to the fiddle yard. Would the station building be better above cutting with stairs down to it?  That would have been coming in London right?

[stivesnick]

4 hours ago, Blackvault said:

Would the station building be better above cutting with stairs down to it?  That would have been coming in London right?

 

My understanding is that the original Minories layout was based on the Great Northern platforms at Moorgate. These are below street level with the station entrance above beyond the buffer stops. However some other small London termini such as the former Broad Street station and Fenchurch Street stations, the track is on a viaduct with the entrance below at street level. 

 

For the goods yard, you would have a ramp to connect it with the street above or below depending on the arrangement and space for lorries to turn around. For your plan, a road coming off the right hand end of the goods platform would work at the expense of the middle siding (although it would be difficult to load/unload goods from this location if the siding remains). Ideally the goods platform would be a bit wider to allow for a roadway down the middle. 

 

Nick 

[Blackvault]

This morning, I played with the layout based on people's suggestions. I've fixed the kink in the curve @5BarVT and altered the goods sidings to be facing, rather than a kickback @Flying Pig.  Regarding the brake van, I'm not sure where it would be stabled while the goods vans are dealt with.  Would it be taken to the carriage siding (the middle road between P1 and P2)?

 

 

 

 

Additionally, I have added an imaginary setting for the station with the main roads and buildings surrounding the area.  @stivesnick I've decided on the station being in a cutting and therefore station building will be on an overbridge and flanked by terrace houses and buildings above the station. The goods building will be two stories, with the upper floor reaching ground level, and I would imagine lifts to allow goods to reach the goods yard for the waiting lorries and trucks or lowered to the platforms.  The Road 1 overbridge will be the scenic break to the fiddle yard. The houses in front of the station might obscure the view of the trains a little but I think it would help give the sense of confinement. 

[Oldddudders]

Has anyone mentioned trapping protection? The former headshunt would have provided it for the goods sidings, but I suspect the revised layout needs some at least. Others will suggest exactly where, I'm sure. 

[Blackvault]

11 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Has anyone mentioned trapping protection? The former headshunt would have provided it for the goods sidings, but I suspect the revised layout needs some at least. Others will suggest exactly where, I'm sure. 

Damn, I missed those. I have one in the loco spur and forgot to add it when altering it this morning. Thanks for keeping me right @Oldddudders