Are 'WW2/1940s' events the only pull that heritage railways have to get bums on seats these days?

[johnofwessex]

5 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

...............................

 

Even the Axis countries suffered because our side eventually devastated them.  One can understand why they might want to string up Il Duce from the nearest lamp post.

 

A friend blames his inability to grasp maths on Il Duce.

 

His Maths teacher was one of the British Soldiers who discovered his body and about twenty minutes into every lesson the cry rang out 'Go on Sir, tell us about when you found Mussolini's body' ' Oh all right then, just this once, 

[johnofwessex]

Last year my oldest son & I went to Brugges for a few days.

 

Needless to say we did the Coast Tram, stopping for lunch at Da Panne.

 

Back in 1940 as part of the Dunkirk evacuation - you could just see Dunkirk down the coast the Bristol paddle steamer Glen Gower had evacuated troops from that beach.

 

It brought it home to me that for Europeans WW2 was a very different experience and how it must shape their world view even today

 

[melmerby]

15 hours ago, Trevellan said:

My picture shows two participants, Helen and Andy, whose outfits perfectly matched the 1949 Bedford OB from the IW Bus Museum.

Gas mask and warden's hat with a 1949 bus?🙂

Edited July 14 by melmerby

[009 micro modeller]

30 minutes ago, johnofwessex said:

 

A friend blames his inability to grasp maths on Il Duce.

 

His Maths teacher was one of the British Soldiers who discovered his body and about twenty minutes into every lesson the cry rang out 'Go on Sir, tell us about when you found Mussolini's body' ' Oh all right then, just this once, 

What about an entire maths lesson, somewhat tenuously themed around the death of Mussolini? It’s been done for other, not obviously mathematical, topics so I’m sure someone could make it work… 😅

[009 micro modeller]

2 hours ago, rogerzilla said:

I suppose it appeals to a certain breed of jingoistic types.  You can spot them by the flagpoles in their gardens - extra points for a regimental flag as well as a Union Flag.  There are three in my street!

Some of them seem to be people who were born just after, or maybe right at the end of the war, and thus internalised all the postwar propaganda/films about the war, comics etc. (though obviously there are younger people as well who’ve somehow acquired the same sort of viewpoint). So I can see the pathway from that to the less accurate attempts at ‘reenactment’ discussed in this thread, although again some reenactment seems to be taken very seriously and involve an almost academic level of historical research, as well as making everything from scratch.

[johnofwessex]

2 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

Some of them seem to be people who were born just after, or maybe right at the end of the war, and thus internalised all the postwar propaganda/films about the war, comics etc. (though obviously there are younger people as well who’ve somehow acquired the same sort of viewpoint). So I can see the pathway from that to the less accurate attempts at ‘reenactment’ discussed in this thread, although again some reenactment seems to be taken very seriously and involve an almost academic level of historical research, as well as making everything from scratch.

 

I spoke to a young reenactor - WW2 British at the last Great Dorset Steam Fair who had clearly done a lot of study and spoken to surviving veterans to get his uniform and equipment correct.

[nigb55009]

So if young people are willing to do the research to get things right, we should applauad them. By doing so they not only prove that our hobby is in good health, but that the younger generation appreciate what our forefathers did to keep our quality of life, our freedom intact. There are many of the younger generation who have no appreciation of what they have today. They have technology that allows them to be in touch with their friends 24 hours a day. They never go round to their mates and knock on the front door to see if they are " PLAYING OUT".  That`s a thing of the past, but we`ve all done it. Kids don`t make their own entertainment anymore. Whilst we may never have been totally innocent, we at least grew up with an a knowledge of our past. Personally I think re-enactors should be applauded. They provide a glimpse into our history, and help educate people about our previous way of life. Long may they continue. Let us hope they inspire more youngster to get involved with our history, including railways and by default, model railways. Without them this, and many other hobbies are doomed

[nick_bastable]

Although I think the KESR evacuation experiance

 

 

is a insight to how their Great Grand Parents lived

 

 

Edited July 15 by nick_bastable

[rogerzilla]

13 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

For good reason - they had a much rougher time than we did.  Yes, a lot of our troops died in battle and civvies were killed in the Blitz and there was food rationing and all that.  But we remained free (albeit only by a very narrow squeak) while the rest of Europe was overrun and the natives treated savagely to discourage them from rebelling.  No "Dunkirk Spirit" camaraderie there.  And then while they were being liberated, they inevitably suffered from bombing and shelling by both sides as allied forces chased the retreating Germans back towards Berlin.   

 

Even the Axis countries suffered because our side eventually devastated them.  One can understand why they might want to string up Il Duce from the nearest lamp post.

Mussolini was actually shot and then strung up from a petrol station canopy to prove he was dead (and to give the mob a chance to throw stuff at his corpse).

 

They didn't learn much: the Mussolini calendar is apparently Italy's biggest-selling calendar, and it has a government we would consider far-right.

[Trevellan]

7 hours ago, melmerby said:

Gas mask and warden's hat with a 1949 bus?🙂

 

[Sigh] I knew there would be one who made that point. 

 

The Bedford OB (and specifically OWB) was in production throughout the 1940s. Try not to take things so literally, eh?

Edited July 15 by Trevellan
Correction

[009 micro modeller]

7 hours ago, nigb55009 said:

There are many of the younger generation who have no appreciation of what they have today. They have technology that allows them to be in touch with their friends 24 hours a day. They never go round to their mates and knock on the front door to see if they are " PLAYING OUT".  That`s a thing of the past, but we`ve all done it. Kids don`t make their own entertainment anymore. Whilst we may never have been totally innocent, we at least grew up with an a knowledge of our past. P

I’m not sure how relevant or helpful this collection of vague generalisations is to the point you’re making (parts of which I agree with).

Edited July 15 by 009 micro modeller

[whart57]

I've just finished reading this interesting book:

 

 

It's the story of a 1940s propagandist who ran British radio stations sending propaganda to Nazi Germany. Unlike the high-minded BBC types who tried to win the Germans over with facts, this guy used low tactics like untrue stories of officers living it up while the troops sheltered in trenches. That's the fun part of the book, but the serious part is that this guy had been part of the Nazi party campaign in the last elections in pre-war Germany and saw how Hitler's propaganda worked from up close.

 

The author then looks at the present day and how the likes of Putin, Trump and Xi in China use very similar techniques. Critics might say he stretches a few points, but it's still worth reading, if only for one of the best explanations of how Hitler and Goebbels managed to create Nazi Germany.

[OnTheBranchline]

2 hours ago, whart57 said:

I've just finished reading this interesting book:

 

 

It's the story of a 1940s propagandist who ran British radio stations sending propaganda to Nazi Germany. Unlike the high-minded BBC types who tried to win the Germans over with facts, this guy used low tactics like untrue stories of officers living it up while the troops sheltered in trenches. That's the fun part of the book, but the serious part is that this guy had been part of the Nazi party campaign in the last elections in pre-war Germany and saw how Hitler's propaganda worked from up close.

 

The author then looks at the present day and how the likes of Putin, Trump and Xi in China use very similar techniques. Critics might say he stretches a few points, but it's still worth reading, if only for one of the best explanations of how Hitler and Goebbels managed to create Nazi Germany.

That’s getting a little too far off topic, I think.

[sjp23480]

On 14/07/2024 at 17:08, Oldddudders said:

ISTR the K&ESR, my 'local' heritage line when I lived in Kent, regularly holding WW2/Dad's Army recreations decades ago, complete with actor Bill Pertwee in uniform. There is every reason given that the county faced hostile Europe, and was the first landfall for most of the Luftwaffe raids. 

 

Our theatre society, TOADS at the Little Theatre, Torquay, has had considerable successes in recent years with performances of both 'Allo 'Allo' and Dad's Army, so despite these shows being very old, the public still relish the era and tv's take on its humour. Yes, I did wear a Nazi uniform as Leclerc in AA, but it implied nothing about my beliefs, or those of my character, a rather clever Resistance fighter. I do admit to a brief but exciting affair with a girl from Hamburg 59 years ago....

 

Where I now live was liberated in August 1944, and 80-year celebrations are being held right, left and centre next month. They will feature lots of military vehicles and other memorabilia of that ghastly occupation. The road into my nearest small town, Bonnetable, is named after a US soldier who lost his life in that liberation. 

 

Post-Covid every heritage line is running to stand still in financial terms. If their ideas are same-y, let's just cut them some slack and hope the cash rolls in.

The KESR lays on trips for local schools to re enact the evacuation.  Recreating the time when children were moved into the countryside.   My better half was a TA and attended these every year with her class.  Is it part of the curriculum?

 

Anyhow, the children loved it.  Getting dressed in "old fashioned" clothes, with little boxes for their chattels and a name tags.  All they need is marmalade sandwiches.  So, whilst WW2 starts to disappear from living memory, the education system continues to make a connection with the young generation.   

 

I guess the KESR do well out of it?  They wouldn't do it if it wasn't profitable.  Apparently the children virtually clear the shop of sweets with their "pocketmoney".

 

Edited July 15 by sjp23480

[whart57]

19 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Dad's Army owed more to the implausibiity of the very idea that a well-equipped invading army could be repelled by a small group of ill-equipped but enthusiastic old men, boys, bank clerks, the butcher and the undertaker who still had to do their day jobs. 

 

A few years ago I was in the German town of Mettingen, twenty miles or so from the Dutch border. I was waiting for my other half to come out of a meeting there and was killing time in the churchyard. In one corner were a dozen or so graves of German soldiers killed in the war, all killed in 1945 and all aged either over 50 or under 20. Obviously these were Landsturm men, the equivalent of Britain's Home Guard. Captain Mainwaring's crew were fortunate they weren't put to the test, the old men and boys of Germany weren't so lucky.

[Matt37268]

Getting back to the OP’s original point and question about this thread I really would suggest they have a bit of a trawl through various railways websites and social media to see that there’s a fair few other events to encourage ‘Normals’ to visit over the summer rather than stir the pot about 1940’s weekends? 
Have they not checked out other family friendly events such as Bluey, (other children’s characters are available) then there’s the various food and beer festivals to be had that are tied in with other events…

I think this is just a lazy post to cause some mischief. There are other family friendly events out, why doesn’t the OP take a look? 

[Boris]

22 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

I can’t remember exactly what happened with Haworth and didn’t know about Saltaire. You also mention Levisham but I thought some of the NYMR’s event was based elsewhere on the line?

It was based over the entire line, not just Pickering as many would have you believe, the Germans were at Levisham, Goathland did a superb Home Front theme and Grosmont fulfilled the wet dreams of the ex-TA guy who loved organising parades and services.

 

The East Lancs started acting on Germans after a number of tabloids ran some really unpleasant spreads about the place, much the same way the NYMR ended up having to get rid of the group at Levisham - but in typical NYMR style it did it underhandedly and now many 40s groups will no longer deal with the place if it ever tried to restart the 40s weekend.   I think a photo of Hitler and Goering walking down a street in Ramsbottom with a British soldier behind them was what started it all

[dave750t]

On 14/07/2024 at 10:24, whart57 said:

 

An English Civil War re-enactment on a heritage railway might be a challenge  😁

[009 micro modeller]

4 hours ago, sjp23480 said:

The KESR lays on trips for local schools to re enact the evacuation.  Recreating the time when children were moved into the countryside.   My better half was a TA and attended these every year with her class.  Is it part of the curriculum?

It certainly has links to the curriculum and is a commonly studied topic (from what I’ve seen working in museum education, primary history seems to be increasingly based on skills, rather than making schools do specific topics, rightly IMHO, but of course it’s a recommended topic that is often studied). The groups that I’ve worked with at the London Docklands Museum who come to do WW2 sessions seem to get a lot out of those.

 

4 hours ago, sjp23480 said:

I guess the KESR do well out of it?  They wouldn't do it unless it wasn't profitable. 

Unless it’s not profitable but they do it as a charitable/educational activity anyway? But even so I doubt it’s losing money.

[009 micro modeller]

56 minutes ago, Boris said:

The East Lancs started acting on Germans after a number of tabloids ran some really unpleasant spreads about the place, much the same way the NYMR ended up having to get rid of the group at Levisham

I wasn’t aware that the issue with the volunteering group at Levisham was related to the war weekend? And probably best left well alone here anyway, there’s another thread for that.

[Robert Shrives]

The Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland is perhaps lucky in that it has a vast Victorian and Edwardian fleet that rolling out Olden times gala is reasonably straight forward and hung on to another new engine, historical date link is a good crowd puller and its ancillary business faces  pocket the pounds. 

There was a 1st World war weekend using the WD era stock - next one will have to be when the Alco and KS diesels are back in working order.  This was well covered in local media and a popular event at the time. I ended up with a hired in privates uniform and a 303 rifle- 1942 vintage however. 

Beer festivals based around Dinas along with local bands and local pubs are a popular event  with shuttles.  A few years back a food festival /fare in Caernarfon bought a calorie filled weekend of fun. 

Also the lines as do others advertise openday/ behind the scenes events to encouarge volunteering. 

TTEW held in past - I know where there the faces rest awaiting a future day out but along with Peppa pig these benefit from being when programmes  on telly  to maximise business. 

 24 hour running is a bit niche and along with photographic days/ nights bring income and media exposure. 

 

So plenty for railways to hang coat on for bringing in the dosh - but of course the really scarce resource after time is the happy soul ready to step up to the lead role! 

robert  

 

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, Boris said:

 I think a photo of Hitler and Goering walking down a street in Ramsbottom with a British soldier behind them was what started it all

 

Not sure why that's politically incorrect as long as the squaddy had a fixed bayonet!

[Matt37268]

1 hour ago, dave750t said:

Am I the only one that’s waiting for the day that Brit 13 has a lamp on all its brackets? 😜

[Michael Hodgson]

15 minutes ago, Matt37268 said:

Am I the only one that’s waiting for the day that Brit 13 has a lamp on all its brackets? 😜

 

I wouldn't pick Oliver Cromwell to haul the Royal Train!

[wombatofludham]

I've only ever been to one 1940s weekend at the Severn Valley and decided not to bother again.  On the plus side, all the trains were authentically overcrowded, and I took the weird visit of Churchill to a tiny station in Worcestershire only to be met with a shoot out between some Nazis who had mysteriously turned up to kidnap him, presumably having read the event poster back in Berlin, and the local Home Guard as a bit of potty fun (I still have tinnitus from standing next to a machine gun which was busy spitting out hot blank bullets).  There was an interesting attempt to recreate the effect of an air-raid with a shelter which was wired for sound and vibration, and once the raid had passed you came out into the daylight to see some wagons had been "set alight" and an AFS team were putting them out, which I thought was good, sanitised of course, but a noteworthy effort.

No, it wasn't the fact I had to suspend disbelief during the events, it was the journey back to Kidderminster on the last service from Bridgnorth that turned me off going again.  A group of boozed up pensioners sat behind us and decided to tunelessly attempt to sing wartime songs using an out of tune banjo.  I say attempt because they would launch into a Vera Lynn or Gracie Fields ditty, and once past the first line, forget the words.  Every time.  I suspect the over imbibing of falling down water was the cause of the memory loss, not age, but boy did it get on my man-boobs.