BR Steam cranes used until?

[ChewChoo]

About 1978 / 1980 a railway-over-road bridge was replaced in Gloucester. I came across the scene by chance and cursed because I had no camera with me.
Winter, rain, almost dark, sparks flying from welding or cutting. And the best bit, smoke, steam and chuffing from, I think two, steam cranes.

At the time I had “BR steam lives” kind of thoughts.

Would these steam cranes have been BR or might they have been used by contractors?

Did steam cranes just fade away or was there a definite policy and end date for their BR service?

[Davexoc]

Old Oak Common breakdown crane was still the steam one when I started in the early 80s.

There was a pile of coal alongside the siding it sat in by the amenity building.

When replaced by the diesel-hydraulic version, the whole breakdown train was often found in the old Pullman shed...

[96701]

Extract from the Breakdown Crane Association website: -

 

"Motive Power

The power for breakdown crane operation was traditionally steam but, as will have been seen earlier in this document, there was a move to, firstly, diesel-mechanical (the four cranes for the Southern Region in 1962-64) and, later, diesel-hydraulic (the conversions from steam in 1976-78 and 1985-87, and the 1977 new-build telescopic jib cranes)."

[Hal Nail]

2 hours ago, ChewChoo said:

Did steam cranes just fade away

This one didn't! At Alton this morning

 

[Michael Hodgson]

Traditionally breakkdown cranes were kept in light steam at large sheds so that they could be desptached in a hurry should the need arise.

This was no big deal when you had a lot of cleaners and firemen hanging around a big shed, but once the MPD was full of diesels, there just weren't the spare blokes to do this any more, quite apart from which such staff as you did have were qualified on diesels.  So their retirement was a no brainer. 

 

And whilst quite a few cranes survive on heritage lines, they don't have competent staff hanging around continuously either.  So they are not used in the same way.  When these cranes are steamed, it's now a special event planned in advance, such as a bridge renewal.

[fulton]

6 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

 

And whilst quite a few cranes survive on heritage lines, they don't have competent staff hanging around continuously either.  So they are not used in the same way.  When these cranes are steamed, it's now a special event planned in advance, such as a bridge renewal.

Most are just static exhibits, apart from boiler certificates, if it is to be used for work, as a crane, a whole range of regulations come in, inspections, testing, certification of the crane and chains etc. staff training, insurance, competent person to do a risk assessment, all expensive, hence often a crane and expertise is hired in as required.

[Southernman46]

The SR Power Supply heavy gang based at Horsham had a 30t steam crane until at least 1983 - we used it to deliver a BD container with 4 DC circuit breakers at Dorking Substation for temporary service whilst those in the substation were re-furbished and the DC busbar / cells brought up to modern (i.e. NOT completely exposed at 750v) standards.  The usual 30t diesel crane being away for servicing. 

[russ p]

Thornaby had a 45t steam crane until 84/85, I believe its preserved 

[iands]

Steam cranes were still being used in the P.Way yard at Doncaster up until I moved back to York in 1985.

[Steven B]

DRC80115 and DRC80116 (15t Cowans & Sheldon engineers crane) were withdrawn in 1988.

 

1560S and 1561S (45t Ransomes and Rapier breakdown cranes, as modelled by Bachmann) were sold in 1989.

The last of the Cowans Sheldon 45-tonners were converted to diesel in 1988.

http://www.bdca.org.uk/steamreplaced.html

 

Steven B

[hmrspaul]

1 hour ago, iands said:

Steam cranes were still being used in the P.Way yard at Doncaster up until I moved back to York in 1985.

York still had two steam cranes in 1988, whether used very much I have no knowledge. https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brceecrane/e3cfb4748  https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brceecrane/e29260c40

 

Paul

[adb968008]

I remember steam cranes in use in the mid-late 1980’s.

 

this article suggests the last steam powered lift as 1989

http://www.bdca.org.uk/steamreplaced.html

[Johann Marsbar]

Awful quality Pocket Instamatic photo, but shows a PW steam crane in use at Derby Road station in October 1978.....

 

[Tumut]

Hello All, these days the availability of hired in road cranes, as used by the construction industry, pretty much removes the need for any railway to own a crane. It is not just a certification issue either. As indicated above, a fully qualified crane operator can, providing the work is carefully pre planned, come in, do what is required, and depart within one day. You can also hire the right crane for the job, you are no longer reliant in working around with whatever crane happens to be available.

A former workmate, and his extended family. used to collectively build precast concrete wall segmented industrial units, and he told me that proper preplanning was essential to keep within budget. In his case they would have a crane for a day, at the end of which all the walls were up, and the roof girders installed within the day.

I have seen some photos and snippets that preserved railway boiler lifts are planned in such a way that any crane work that needs to be done, is part of the preplanning, so in some cases at least, the crane may only need be onsite for only a few hours, and the contractor can give the hirer of an available window, and everyone is happy!

[Bon Accord]

As I remember it was circa 1995 that the last steam crane still on the network was disposed of (at Toton or Bescot?) - I remember reading an article about it.

When it had last worked though I have no idea.

[Hal Nail]

The Midhants have two working cranes (plus one that isn't operational) and use them for boiler lifts and other jobs around the line. The yellow one is just visible in the pic above. They are based at Alton but fairly frequently disappear off to other parts or have moved around the sidings.

 

The wagon group were commandeered to repaint the black one, which rapidly turned into a 4th bridge affair.

 

Prompted by this thread I've looked them up - the two 10T cranes were withdrawn from Eastleigh on 31 Dec 1982 and the black one, originally from Exmouth Junction, is the one seen in the 80s at Old Oak (see @Davexoc above)

 

 

Edited July 12 by Hal Nail

[craneman]

The last steam breakdown cranes in service with BR were ADRR95209 (formerly SR 1560S) and ADRR95210 (formerly SR 1561S), which were sold by BR to a private buyer in June 1989.  These two then stood in Cocklesbury Yard at Swindon for many years and were something of a local landmark until the site was cleared. 1561S moved firstly to Southall where a start was made on its restoration then subsequently to the Swanage Railway where it remains at present, in operational condition but not being used. It was recently stated that it was available for sale. 1560S moved from Swindon to Tyseley where it stood for several more years before being scrapped in 2010.

 

These two cranes were the first two of the initial batch of six ordered from Ransomes & Rapier in 1939 by the Government on behalf of the British railways in anticipation of air raid damage from enemy action, went to the Southern Railway, and the other four from this batch went to the GWR and were numbered 16 (later ADRR95211), 17 (later ADRR95208), 18 (later ADRR95212), and 19 (later ADRR95213). R&R built more cranes to a very similar design for use by the LNER, the MoD, and the War department, all of which had evolutionary design changes from the first six. The final crane to this general design was DS1580 (later ADRR95216) for the Southern, delivered just after the war ended.

 

Over the years OOC was home to three of these cranes, specifically GWR 16 (1940 to c.1972), ex-GWR 18 (c.1976 to 1983), and finally, briefly, ex-SR DS1580 (1983).  These cranes are all visually very similar, and there is often confusion as to which is which. Photos of 16 and 18 at OOC are quite common but photos of 1580 at OOC are extremely rare and I do not immediately recall ever having seen one. Of the OOC cranes, GWR 16 was broken up at Swindon in 1986, GWR 18 survives (barely) at Carnforth, and DS1580 is of course operational and frequently in use at the Mid-Hants Railway.

 

The very last steam crane of any size or type to survive in BR service was the 1955 3-ton Thomas Smith crane ADRS 95000 (later 024984) which survived as an internal user asset at Toton TMD until c. 2000 when it was out of use awaiting disposal. It is now preserved at Woodside Farm, Welland.

 

There can be no doubt that the last steam crane of any type to be operated by BR was the 3-ton Smith crane. The last steam breakdown crane to be operated by BR under BR ownership would have been either DS1560 or DS1561 c. 1988 or early 1989, but the very last lift by any steam breakdown crane on BR metals, so far as can be determined, was made by the former GWR No 2 crane very early on Sunday 13th August 1989 at Goodrington, some two months after BR had disposed of its last steam breakdown cranes.

Edited July 12 by craneman

[Davexoc]

9 hours ago, craneman said:

Photos of 16 and 18 at OOC are quite common but photos of 1580 at OOC are extremely rare and I do not immediately recall ever having seen one.

 

I wish I had taken my camera in back then, as that would have probably been 1580 then, as I was coming towards the end of my time back in '83. Apprentice pay wasn't that good, so the cost of film and developing meant I couldn't really afford to, so didn't bother unfortunately.

I remember working alongside Roy Treggiden (another time served OC apprentice) whose uncle was our shift's overhead crane driver, brake block fitter and breakdown crane driver. At the start of each shift he would tend to the crane, keeping it in readiness for use if called upon.

If there was a royal train working on a particular day, the train was ready to go at the drop of a hat....

When I finished my apprenticeship, steam was gone and we went over to diesel-hydaulic, and I did go out with that a couple of times, so I missed out, just....

[woodyfox]

I personally witnessed a steam crane being fired up and working in around 1989 at Stewarts Lane depot. This was possibly one of those reported as being sold bt BR about the same time. 

[craneman]

Both ADRR95209, formerly 1560S and now scrapped, and ADRR95210, formerly 1561S, and the crane now at the Swanage Railway, were withdrawn from Stewart's Lane in 1989. It would have been one of these you saw. They were both serviceable and steamed up to withdrawal.

 

There are pictures from 1989 on line showing both cranes colocated at SL.

Edited July 24 by craneman

[rodent279]

Out of interest, how long did it take to start up a steam crane from cold to ready for operation?

Edited July 25 by rodent279

[justin]

After 1968, with the removal of water cranes, some steam breakdown cranes would have an old steam locomotive tender provided as a water carrier. Some BR regions gave these tenders departmental numbers but the Western Region in particular didn't. If anyone has any pictures or information on these tenders I would be interested to hear about them as I have been trying to compile a list. 

[Dunsignalling]

On 10/07/2024 at 23:36, Hal Nail said:

This one didn't! At Alton this morning

 

 

DS 1580, formerly of Exmouth Junction (72A) shed, Exeter, and with various differences from the Bachmann model. 

 

I think it went elsewhere on the Western Region after the depot (by then re-coded 83D) closed.

 

Here's one of her on parade at the gala weekend marking the 40th Anniversary of the end of Southern steam, back in 2007. 

 

Edited July 25 by Dunsignalling

[craneman]

14 hours ago, rodent279 said:

Out of interest, how long did it take to start up a steam crane from cold to ready for operation?

That depends on a number of factors, chiefly the type and condition of the boiler.

 

The great majority of British steam cranes built since c. 1910 have had boilers of the Hopwood type, which due to their design are quick steaming. Typically a clean Hopwood boiler of the type fitted to a breakdown crane can be lifting the safety valves about 45 minutes after lighting up from cold. In heritage use you would not push a boiler this hard since boiler life is more of a consideration that it was in 'working' days.

 

Cranes designers have always faced challenges with boilers due principally to the fact that the diameter and height of the boiler are severely restricted by loading gauge, especially in the UK. Various types have been used, some with success and others without, but the Hopwood type was without question the most successful and ost widely used.

 

The Hopwood boiler was available in a range of sizes for applications throughout industry, with a special type, known as the "squat" type, specifically designed for railway cranes. The Hopwood design is a cross-tube vertical boiler, with a 'nest' of water-filled inclined cross-tubes within the combustion space. The inclination of the tubes results in a high degree of predictable continuous circulation of water in the boiler, and the large number of tubes in the nest provides a very large heating surface for the restricted diameter of the boiler.  

 

The photos below show the Hopwood pattern boiler saved from 1560S when the crane was cut for scrap in 2010. The first photo shows the Hopwood boiler from 1560 (on the left) standing next to a Swindon-built crane boiler most recently fitted to GWR No 2 36-ton crane. One end of the tube nest can ben seen through the manhole door aperture of the Hopwood boiler, there is another manhole on the far side of the boiler for access to the other end. The firehole door can be seen below and to the right of the manhole.  The GWR boiler on the right is a very primitive vertical-fire-tube (VFT) boiler which was built in 1917 for use as a spare for GWR cranes 1, 2, and 3. As noted it survived in GWR No 2 but is in poor condition and its restoration is not economically viable at present, and the boiler from 1560 has been overhauled for use in No 2 instead.

 

The second photo shows the view upwards through the combustion space (i.e., firebox) with the boiler lying on its side, and clearly shows how the tube nest is arranged in the combustion space.

 

The third photo shows the inner firebox after removal from the outer wrapper, and clearly visible are the opening for the firehole door, the holes and ligaments for one end of the tube nest, and the base of the uptake at the top. The foundation ring is also visible at the extreme bottom of the photo. In this case the need to replace all the tubes in the tube nest (of which there are both plain tubes and stay tubes) and to carry out ligament repairs made it sensible to remove the inner firebox from the outer wrapper, it is however theoretically possible to replace the tubes through the manholes.

 

The final photo, by way of contrast, shows the same boiler after overhaul undergoing its statutory hydraulic test prior to steam testing, both tests being completed to the total satisfaction of the independent Boiler Examiner.

 

 

  

 

 

 

Edited July 25 by craneman

[craneman]

7 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

DS 1580, formerly of Exmouth Junction (72A) shed, Exeter, and with various differences from the Bachmann model. 

 

I think it went elsewhere on the Western Region after the depot (by then re-coded 83D) closed.

 

 

New to Exmouth Junction in 1945, to Newton Abbot 08/1965, to Laira 01/1972, finally (briefly) to OOC in 1983. Withdrawn from OOC in 1983 and moved to the Gloucestershire & Warwickshire Railway in 04/1983, then to the Llangollen Railway c.1989. Resold and moved to the Mid-Hants in 07/1992 where it has since become one of the best-known and most regularly used preserved cranes. 

 

As you note it is distinctively different in a number of ways to both to the Bachmann model and to any of the other R&R 45-ton cranes of the class (although it must be noted that the Bachmann model is very similar, unlike the appalling Hornby representation of DS1580 of a few years ago)!

Edited July 25 by craneman
Additional detail added