Layout Planning: Fictitious Great Central Line in Yorkshire

[1165Valour]

On 15 December 1845, there was a meeting of the shareholders of the recently-formed Huddersfield & Manchester Railway & Canal Company at the Huddersfield Guildhall. The Chairman, William Aldam, announced his proposal to lease the H&MR to the Sheffield, Ashton-under-Lyne & Manchester Railway. The Deputy Chairman, Joseph Brook, immediately voiced opposition the plan in strong language, and Aldam's proposal was soundly defeated, with Brook leaving the Guildhall chaired on the shoulders of the shareholders. When the SA&MR formed the Manchester, Sheffield & Lincolnshire Railway, it would do so without the H&MR.

 

However, what if Joseph Brook missed the meeting, and Aldam's proposal had gone through, and gotten the Leeds, Dewsbury & Manchester Railway to join them? What would the Manchester-Huddersfield-Leeds line have looked like in 1907, in Great Central days?

 

For the past couple years, I have become quite enamored with this idea, allowing for a busy Great Central main line, offering junctions with several other companies. However, I have a few nagging questions:
 

- Would the line still be routed via the L&Y at Mirfield? I am not so sure this would have been the case, as I don't know if the L&Y would have been willing to offer this to the MS&L in the way they had to the LNWR.

 

- What is the likelihood of the MS&L/GCR and Great Northern collaborating on building lines in the West Riding, or at least joint stations at Batley and Holbeck?

 

- Would a junction with the Midland at Dewsbury be out of the question, in light of the MS&L and Midland's relationship?

 

Any other input or suggestions are quite welcome, of course.

 

@62613 @DenysW @Compound2632 

Edited Wednesday at 07:19 by 1165Valour

[62613]

What if the M.S & L. had built the line from Huddersfield to Penistone? I would point out that the Midland and the M.S. & L. got along quite weel around Manchester, e.g. the Sheffield and Midland Joint from Hyde Junction to Apethorn Junction. I'm not syre the Ashburys to Romiley line wasn't "Joint"

[1165Valour]

2 hours ago, 62613 said:

What if the M.S & L. had built the line from Huddersfield to Penistone? I would point out that the Midland and the M.S. & L. got along quite well around Manchester, e.g. the Sheffield and Midland Joint from Hyde Junction to Apethorn Junction. I'm not syre the Ashburys to Romiley line wasn't "Joint"

Yes, the SA&M was trying to include the Huddersfield & Sheffield Junction in the MS&L around this time as well. In a world where the Great Central has a Manchester-Leeds line, having the Huddersfield-Penistone line would be quite advantageous, or at least owning it jointly with the L&Y.

 

I assume the GCR would have been running expresses from Leeds to Marylebone, and I think some would have been routed via Huddersfield and Penistone, while others would have been routed via Wakefield and Nostell.

 

To clarify, I am being attentive to the effects of my changes, but I am not being especially attentive, if you take my meaning. @DenysW, you are likely quite right - the MS&L was treading water in those early years, and Leeds would likely have been a bridge too far for them. However, I would like to model the Great Central, so I must wink at your very reasonable objections, and assume few major changes.

 

[Willie Whizz]

I don’t know whether it helps, but in the late 20s and early 30s the LNER ran an express service of sorts from Leeds to Bournemouth via the ex-LDEC and Mansfield Railway routes and then on down the GC London Extension. 
 

The trains were quite short, and tended to mix LNER and SR stock. I believe it died, like much else in those times, from lack of patronage in the difficult period of the Great Depression - but if “Rule One” is already having to be invoked in other matters then here is a fig-leaf that may be useful. 

[1165Valour]

8 hours ago, Willie Whizz said:

I don’t know whether it helps, but in the late 20s and early 30s the LNER ran an express service of sorts from Leeds to Bournemouth via the ex-LDEC and Mansfield Railway routes and then on down the GC London Extension. 
 

The trains were quite short, and tended to mix LNER and SR stock. I believe it died, like much else in those times, from lack of patronage in the difficult period of the Great Depression - but if “Rule One” is already having to be invoked in other matters then here is a fig-leaf that may be useful. 

I have indeed considered including trains similar to the "Ports to Ports Express" that ran from Newcastle (and Hull and Sunderland) down to Bournemouth via Banbury.

 

In our hypothetical 1907, I imagine Great Central trains would start at either Leeds New (later City) or Central, then use the Huddersfield to Penistone line to get on the GCML south to Marylebone, or indeed Bournemouth in this case.

 

I also expect Leeds New (or something similar: Leeds Victoria?) would still be built in this world.