Pre-grouping wagon loads

[drduncan]

So, as I slowly work thought my backlog of pre grouping wagons it occurred to me that they would require loads. But what loads? Well coal was an easy one, so was China clay in casks; fish was in casks or boxes, bricks, slates and tiles packed carefully in an open too. 

 

But then I started thinking; some  - perhaps many - would be sheeted and so be an anonymous lump. So what loads had to be sheeted (hay for instance) and what didn’t and in what was the load carried casks, crates, sacks etc?

Sacks  make a potentially interesting load but what would be in the sacks as an unsheeted liad? Probably not floor.  Agricultural machinery such as ploughs are often a favourite but surely they’d be sheeted, as would be crates.

 

As I’ve seen photos of rather nice riveted water tanks carried unsheeted in opens, I thought this question regarding loads, sheeted or not and why, might proven to be an interesting topic for discussion. 
 

So what interesting loads, pre 1923, have people come across that are identifiable and not an anonymous lump under a tarpaulin?
 

Regards 
 

Duncan

 

[Paul H Vigor]

23 minutes ago, drduncan said:

So, as I slowly work thought my backlog of pre grouping wagons it occurred to me that they would require loads. But what loads? Well coal was an easy one, so was China clay in casks; fish was in casks or boxes, bricks, slates and tiles packed carefully in an open too. 

 

But then I started thinking; some  - perhaps many - would be sheeted and so be an anonymous lump. So what loads had to be sheeted (hay for instance) and what didn’t and in what was the load carried casks, crates, sacks etc?

Sacks  make a potentially interesting load but what would be in the sacks as an unsheeted liad? Probably not floor.  Agricultural machinery such as ploughs are often a favourite but surely they’d be sheeted, as would be crates.

 

As I’ve seen photos of rather nice riveted water tanks carried unsheeted in opens, I thought this question regarding loads, sheeted or not and why, might proven to be an interesting topic for discussion. 
 

So what interesting loads, pre 1923, have people come across that are identifiable and not an anonymous lump under a tarpaulin?
 

Regards 
 

Duncan

 

Boats

Statues

https://www.creditoncourier.co.uk/news/exeter-councillors-approve-next-step-towards-removal-of-statue-of-crediton-born-buller-151233

Edited July 5 by Paul H Vigor
to add information

[billbedford]

Economisers

[Andy Hayter]

Sheeting provided two functions.

1;  Weather protection

2;  load stabilisation - so where the load is stacked significantly above the sides of an open wagon, a sheet would be used to stop items falling off or jolted off in transit.  

 

Full loads of course existed - coal, minerals, slates, tiles, bricks - but mixed loads were rather common and could be a mix of crates, boxes, barrels and even rolls of materials.  These would be stacked to the weight limit or safe loading height and would largely have to be sheeted.  

 

Goods that could be carried as full loads in sacks but do not necessarily need sheeting include root vegetables (carrots, parsnips etc.), potatoes, peas in pods, cabbages  (note all of these are full loads ex-the farm but probably not full loads as delivered to the customer - ie full load to the market (Covent 

Garden for example) but then bought by distributors they might well be shipped away as mixed loads and possibly then shipped further on to stores as individual sacks.   Ditto shipping to canning factories.  

 

Additionally some products were baled and could well have been shipped un-sheeted - cotton, jute, hemp for example from docks to processing mills.  

Edited July 5 by Andy Hayter

[Dave John]

Depending on location Pig Iron. 

[Paul H Vigor]

GWR transported Cornish cauliflower and broccoli to London in cattle wagons?

[magmouse]

7 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

1;  Weather protection

2;  load stabilisation

Also:

3; to protect the load from soot and sparks (I am away from home at the moment and can’t check, but I think there is mention of this in the GWR rules appendix - potentially flammable loads need protecting from sparks from the loco)

4; to prevent pilfering.

 

To add to the list:

• Clay pipes
• sand and gravel
• timber
• acid in carboys
• All kinds of things in casks of various sizes - china clay and fish have been mentioned, but also beer, wines and spirits, lamp oil, mineral oils, flour…
• Split chestnut fencing*

*see this excerpt from a photo in the NRM collection:

 

 

Which I am working on in 7mm scale:

 

 

The railway company rule book appendices are a good place to look for ideas, as they have instructions for the correct loading of different items. Pictures of goods yards are also a rich source, though care is needed as they often show loads being loaded or unloaded that would be sheeted while in transit.

 

Nick.

 

 

[fulton]

This image has been on here previously, I was particularly taken by the wagon load of wrought iron gates or fencing, an opportunity to use some of those nice brass etchings, or your left overs, note the labels and sacking.

Edited July 6 by fulton
added text

[corneliuslundie]

And of course animals in cattle wagons.

In some areas pit props.

If there is a local factory the relevant products such as farm equipment, traction engines, mining equipment, narrow gauge locos, chains for ships (there was a big factory in south Wales).

Sugar beet in East Anglia in season.

But some loads would go in vans or, on the GWR, Siphons.

From a gas works coke and waste products (tankers).

Back then even night soil (suitable aroma needed of course).

Jonathan

[Andy Hayter]

I thought the question was principally about goods in sacks that did not need sheeting.

[corneliuslundie]

His question was:

"So what interesting loads, pre 1923, have people come across that are identifiable and not an anonymous lump under a tarpaulin?"

My thought therefore was "what random loads would have been seen which would not have been under tarpaulins.

Some of those I listed might have been or might not and sugar beet was carried in anything available in season though probably sheeted if in opens.

Night soil would have been sheeted, hence the need for an odour generator so it doesn't fall into the "anonymous" category.

And I was ignoring "special loads" such as enormous girders, ships' propellers and big gun barrels.

J

Edited July 6 by corneliuslundie

[Tom Burnham]

There are pictures of wagons loaded high with hop pokes.  Would they have been sheeted for transit?

[drduncan]

The more ideas the merrier! I do like the idea of new iron gates arriving for Nampara…
 

Sacks have the virtue of being nondescript but with potential to be worked into various traffic flows…without changing the load. But then so do boring sheeted loads….

 

So following on from the contributions of several people above (with my thanks), I have been thinking about agriculture, all of which has an impact on potential pre grouping wagon loads.

 

Agriculture was in a severe depression from the 1870s to the end of the century due to cheap imports from the USA. The crops chiefly affected were corn and wheat. This led to the land use changing as less land was used for grains. At the same time the land used for roots, market gardening and pasture went up - as did land out of agricultural use.

 

The so what’s are that market gardening would have been in baskets and probably sheeted. Root vegetables for animal feed eg the West Country mangold increased - I imagine that these would have been unsheeted. (As an aside I’d love to see Nick @magmouse’s take on a wagon load of mangolds, no pressure). Root veg for humans sacks but I’m undecided if sacks of spuds and carrots would have been sheeted…

Duncan

 

 

[drduncan]

Mangold wurzel:

[Compound2632]

Right I'm mounting my hobby-horse. Most of those photos of loads of merchandise, sacks, bales, etc. were taken to illustrate loading methods and show the wagon before sheeting. Likewise photos of goods yards tend to show wagons before sheeting or after unsheeting. Anything remotely at risk from fire damage would be sheeted before leaving the goods yard. Unsheeted loads were generally traffic classified as mineral: coal, coke, stone, bricks and other earthenware such as tiles and pipes, etc. The major exception would be lime, which would be sheeted if not conveyed in roofed wagons - also salt. Sawn timber boards loaded in ordinary open wagons was sheeted, though if the boards projected over the end of the wagon, the sheet often wouldn't cover the projecting ends. Larger timber, sawn or round, loaded on timber trucks, was unscented.

 

As to novelty loads such as statues or stuffed giraffes, just don't get me started. These things might make nice models in their own right but to my mind they have no place on a model railway that attempts to be a realistic representation of the real thing. Such things were once-in-a-century events as far as most places were concerned.

 

Of course there will always be exceptions and photographers and modellers are always biased towards the unusual but exceptions is what they were: exceptional, untypical, not representative of the way the railway was.

[Mikkel]

21 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Right I'm mounting my hobby-horse.

 

We have been expecting you, Mr Bond 🙂

 

On the issue of what was "common": Prior to pooling, there is still a place for the good old empty open, I think? 

 

 

 

Of course, one problem is that there are relatively few photos of pre-grouping goods trains en route - and even those that appear to be on the move may deceive. 

 

Edited July 6 by Mikkel
Typos and line spacing

[Paul H Vigor]

18 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

 

We have been expecting you, Mr Bond 🙂

 

On the issue of what was "common": Prior to pooling, there is still a place for the good old empty open, I think? 

 

 

 

Of course, one problem is that there are relatively few photos of pre-grouping goods trains en route - and even those that appear to be on the move may deceive. 

 

Raises the question: how were hobby-horses transported??

[magmouse]

If we take @Mikkel’s picture as a (statistically completely invalid) survey, looking at the moving train itself, we have:

• sheeted wagons with a load visible under the sheet
• sheeted wagons with no apparent load
• sheeted wagons with a sheet supporter
• empty wagons
• empty wagons with a sheet supporter, either raised or lowered
• coal wagons 
• a tank wagon

… and that’s it. No sign of a merchandise wagon with load visible. 
 

In the adjacent sidings, and noting Stephen’s point, we can add:

• Covered goods wagons (vans)
• Mysterious long, thin somethings under a sheet, on a bogie bolster. (wrought iron gates????)

It’s also worth noting that some loads come in multiples - the rake of refrigerated vans, for example, and the row of wagons with high, sheeted loads (hay, straw?).

 

Of course, other loads may be justified by specific local traffic - a foundry/iron works will need pig iron, for example. But otherwise, sheets dominate the scene, which you might think is either dull or a modelling challenge (or both!).

 

Nick.

 

PS I make a special plea for my split chestnut fencing - I don’t think this would be sheeted, as there is no particular reason to, and it would be very awkward, with a significant risk of damaging the sheet, which the rules book appendix warns railway staff to be careful about.

[drduncan]

@magmouse I agree about not sheeting your split chestnut fencing. Even if it was, it shouldn’t be!

 

As a thought when was split chestnut fencing introduced? The wire bindings suggest late 19th century or later but is this correct?

 

Duncan

[magmouse]

3 minutes ago, drduncan said:

As a thought when was split chestnut fencing introduced? The wire bindings suggest late 19th century or later but is this correct?

Things I never thought I would find myself Googling:

 

”history of split chestnut fencing”

 

Unfortunately it isn’t very helpful in answering your question. The NRM photo I posted above is dated by them as c.1915, so I think it is OK for my 1908 period. Chestnut has been coppiced for centuries, so the question is more when was the wire available at a reasonable price, and possibly some kind of machine/jig to hold the pallings and twist the wire. The later feels like something a carpenter could make in half a day, so it’s really the wire, I think.

 

Nick. 

[drduncan]

@Compound2632 is quite right to exercise his hobby horse. It was his analysis of wagon types in use that made me think about loads and the ubiquity of sheeting - hence my quest for wagon loads that are not mineral in origin but would be unsheeted.
 

Once we can ascertain if these loads existed and what trades they associated with we can then use that information to decide what loads are appropriate to replicate the traffic on our lines. 

 

For interest, my traffic in/out of Nampara is

Coal 

china Clay

Tin

copper

lead

zinc

silver

fish

timber (Norway poles, pit props and rough sawn planks)

diary produce (inc milk)

assorted agricultural products and tools

assorted general merchandise (including small amounts of marine chandlers stores)

assorted mine supplies (including gunpowder)

 

And I burnt my fingers far too much trying to put together an etched small water tank to sheet it over!

Edited July 6 by drduncan

[magmouse]

1 hour ago, drduncan said:

Mangold wurzel:

Yikes!

 

Challenge, er, accepted, with the caveat there may be a long lead time….

 

Nick.

[drduncan]

3 minutes ago, magmouse said:

Things I never thought I would find myself Googling:

 

”history of split chestnut fencing”

 

Unfortunately it isn’t very helpful in answering your question. The NRM photo I posted above is dated by them as c.1915, so I think it is OK for my 1908 period. Chestnut has been coppiced for centuries, so the question is more when was the wire available at a reasonable price, and possibly some kind of machine/jig to hold the pallings and twist the wire. The later feels like something a carpenter could make in half a day, so it’s really the wire, I think.

 

Nick. 

I never thought I’d be looking at the history of mangold wurzels let alone posting an image!

[drduncan]

3 minutes ago, magmouse said:

Yikes!

 

Challenge, er, accepted, with the caveat there may be a long lead time….

 

Nick.

Just don’t ask me to 3D print individual mangolds!

[magmouse]

1 minute ago, drduncan said:

Just don’t ask me to 3D print individual mangolds!

Well the whole thing’s off then. I had just fired up Fusion 360…