Just how glossy must a loco be for transfers and bow pen?

[bluestag]

Hey Guys.

 

I'm struggling with lining my recently painted Precedent.    I managed to get a boiler band on, and then when applying the second one, destroyed the first.   Twice.   The second time, I allowed an hour for adhesion.

 

Fox Transfers, 7mm.

 

I am thinking my loco is not gloss enough.   See attached.   Opinions?

 

Kevin

[Ian Rathbone]

What type of paint have you used and what temperature was it during spraying? It looks as if it was already dry before it landed on the model and hasn’t smoothed itself out. You’d have been better not putting the boiler bands on and just using transfers. In 7mm scale a boiler band is only 2 thou thick - about the thickness of the transfer.

 

Ian R

[Dave John]

I am nowhere near Ian Rathbone's abilities, but I'd agree with just using the transfers as boiler bands. Makes life a lot simpler and neater. 

[33C]

I find that it is how well the paint flows more than the surface condition. Stir very well and thin a bit at a time and it should apply as easy as writing with a biro.

[97406]

If using transfers, the surface could do with being a smoother gloss. Imagine all those little peaks and troughs amd how they interact with the flat transfer. Ideally you need an airbrush and spray thinned gloss varnish until you get a nice smooth gloss. After the transfer had been applied and is dry, I spray thin coats of gloss with increasing amounts of matt added with successive coats until I get the finish I want.

 

Any residual air pockets behind clear film can be reduced in appearance by applying a little of the underlying colour with a small brush between coats.

Edited July 6 by 97406

[Hal Nail]

Not entirely clear where the bow pen comes into this?

 

Edit: referring to the OPs question

Edited July 6 by Hal Nail

[97406]

1 minute ago, Hal Nail said:

Not entirely clear where the bow pen comes into this?

 

You wouldn't want to let me loose with a bow pen, I tell thee! The lines would be all over the place! 😄

[bluestag]

21 hours ago, Ian Rathbone said:

What type of paint have you used and what temperature was it during spraying? It looks as if it was already dry before it landed on the model and hasn’t smoothed itself out. You’d have been better not putting the boiler bands on and just using transfers. In 7mm scale a boiler band is only 2 thou thick - about the thickness of the transfer.

 

Ian R

The boiler bands were etched proud of the boiler.   I had no choice except to make a new boiler, I suppose.

 

I think the first coat, of self etch primer from a rattle can, went on rough.   The color coats are lacquer.   As is the gloss top coat.   It was warm, I'm in Los Angeles.

[bluestag]

16 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

Not entirely clear where the bow pen comes into this?

 

Edit: referring to the OPs question

While Fox makes circles that will do for much of the splashers, they won't follow the sweeps around the valance.  Hence the bow pen.

[bluestag]

On 05/07/2024 at 14:47, Ian Rathbone said:

What type of paint have you used and what temperature was it during spraying? It looks as if it was already dry before it landed on the model and hasn’t smoothed itself out. You’d have been better not putting the boiler bands on and just using transfers. In 7mm scale a boiler band is only 2 thou thick - about the thickness of the transfer.

 

Ian R

I hate to think about it, but I could sand with 1000 grit paper.   Yikes!

[Hal Nail]

8 hours ago, bluestag said:

I hate to think about it, but I could sand with 1000 grit paper.   Yikes!

1000 is too coarse for flatting - I use 1600 or 2000, wet, in gentle circles.

 

I regularly do this then polish with kitchen roll for the dull sheen of metal, usually on diesels. It takes time though and doing the whole loco, evenly, would take longer than stripping and respraying to be honest.

 

 

Edited July 7 by Hal Nail

[Giles]

3 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

1000 is too coarse for flatting - I use 1600 or 2000, wet, in gentle circles.

 

I regularly do this then polish with kitchen roll for the dull sheen of metal, usually on diesels. It takes time though and doing the whole loco, evenly, would take longer than stripping and respraying to be honest.

 

 

 

So do I- I also rub down the primer before putting the top coat on, otherwise i risk getting a spot ortho of grey poking through!

2000 used wet is my weapon of choice, again with buffing of kitchen roll.

[Hal Nail]

Just now, Giles said:

So do I

It was you I nicked the technique off! I've frequently referred to this but sods law this is probably the first time I haven't credited you so apologies!

[bluestag]

9 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

1000 is too coarse for flatting - I use 1600 or 2000, wet, in gentle circles.

 

I regularly do this then polish with kitchen roll for the dull sheen of metal, usually on diesels. It takes time though and doing the whole loco, evenly, would take longer than stripping and respraying to be honest.

 

 

Stripping is not a good option.   Lacquer resists acetone.   And many of the details on the loco are fixed with epoxy, which would come off while the paint would not.

 

[bluestag]

I'll look about for 2000 grit.  My hobby shop sold me my 1000 grit.   A standard sheet, sliced into three, and packaged to be sold for three times the price of sandpaper in any other shop.   Oh well, one uses very little of it.

 

I just applied another bit of transfer to the loco after the latest spray with clear gloss.    I'll give it some time, three hours perhaps, before checking to see if it adhered.

[97406]

10 minutes ago, bluestag said:

I'll look about for 2000 grit.  My hobby shop sold me my 1000 grit.   A standard sheet, sliced into three, and packaged to be sold for three times the price of sandpaper in any other shop.   Oh well, one uses very little of it.

 

I just applied another bit of transfer to the loco after the latest spray with clear gloss.    I'll give it some time, three hours perhaps, before checking to see if it adhered.

 

If you have an airbrush, thinned varnish will fill the little nobbles in the existing finish. If anything it’s a good surface to provide a key to the varnish. Just be mindful not to whack a massive thick coat of it on which fills and rounds off all the detail. Wet and dry may rub through the paint, even fine grade. Especially around raised detail.

Edited July 7 by 97406

[Hal Nail]

15 minutes ago, bluestag said:

I'll give it some time, three hours perhaps, before checking to see if it adhered.

I presume you seal them? If so they will stay put anyway.

[bluestag]

39 minutes ago, 97406 said:

 

If you have an airbrush, thinned varnish will fill the little nobbles in the existing finish. If anything it’s a good surface to provide a key to the varnish. Just be mindful not to whack a massive thick coat of it on which fills and rounds off all the detail. Wet and dry may rub through the paint, even fine grade. Especially around raised detail.

I do have an air brush, and I just three days ago applied more varnish.   It is a tad smoother and glossier.   If this transfer will not stick after being brushed with a bit of water based semigloss varnish, made by Microsol, I'll spray it again.

[bluestag]

32 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

I presume you seal them? If so they will stay put anyway.

I use Microsol products on transfers.   I use their microset to soften the transfers and encourage them to stick.   And I have found that their water based varnishes brush on brilliantly, leaving no brush marks.

 

[bluestag]

Another argument for avoiding brass boiler bands, if possible, is that the transfers are not likely the same width as the band.   As I said earlier, this kit had the bands etched proud.   They are slightly thinner than the transfers.   One red line is right on the edge of the band, the other off the other side on the boiler.   It is not obvious.   Or no more obvious than the dozen other clankers I have committed.

 

[97406]

25 minutes ago, bluestag said:

I do have an air brush, and I just three days ago applied more varnish.   It is a tad smoother and glossier.   If this transfer will not stick after being brushed with a bit of water based semigloss varnish, made by Microsol, I'll spray it again.

 

Humbrol Decalfix is also a good thing to use to soften the transfers and help them bond to the surface. I used it on my Large Logo 47 a couple of weeks back.

[bluestag]

2 hours ago, 97406 said:

 

Humbrol Decalfix is also a good thing to use to soften the transfers and help them bond to the surface. I used it on my Large Logo 47 a couple of weeks back.

While my shop has Humbrol, I don't think they have Decalfix.   If that is what is available at your hobbyshop, and it works for you, then by all means.

[97406]

6 hours ago, bluestag said:

While my shop has Humbrol, I don't think they have Decalfix.   If that is what is available at your hobbyshop, and it works for you, then by all means.

 

I bought it online,

[meil]

Alternatives (and better in my opinion) Micro Sol and Micro Fix.

[John Isherwood]

34 minutes ago, meil said:

Alternatives (and better in my opinion) Micro Sol and Micro Fix.

 

Micro Sol and Micro Set?

 

CJI.