Station Throat

[Jabee]

Per previous posts, I have a converted loft/hobby room, in which I am building a model railway.  There is a decent sized fiddle yard, about which I have received lots of advice on here and which has been constructed and fully tested.  There are four entries/exits to the yard.  I had originally envisaged a station with half or more of the platforms 'off scene' with a structure (bridge/station building etc) disguising this at the scenic break/entry to the fiddle yard. The station approach has been built (on the basis of 4 running lines) and I have hit a wall and made no further progress (see first picture).

 

Although the approach has been tested and any snags resolved, I have realised I simply do not like it and am considering changing it to two main running lines diverging to four at the station (two platforms and two through lines) with a branch line joining at the station approach (see second picture).  I would be very grateful for any constructive comments/advice.

 

 

Edited July 2 by Jabee

[Siberian Snooper]

Do you have a preferred period and company, that you aim to model, as that can make a big difference to the track layout.

 

 

[Jabee]

Period is 80's/90's diesel

 

[roythebus1]

80's/90's era would not have used double slips on fast running lines.

[Jabee]

I take the point about slips on running lines but, given the need to 'compress' things into model form, I'm not overly concerned to make compromises in that respect unless there is a better and more efficient way to design the station throat.

Edited July 3 by Jabee

[Jeremy Cumberland]

What train movements are you planning? Are the non-platform roads primarily for fast expresses that aren't stopping (Dawlish Warren), or for slow freights (Carlisle)?

 

Two platform roads plus two through lines (and no bay) suggest that reversing movements will be infrequent, so I can't see the need for a facing crossover between the up and down lines.

 

Using "up" and "down" as per the orientation on the page:

In the top plan, I'd start with the sidings exiting to the up platform road, a crossover from up fast to up slow immediately below the platform, and below that a trailing crossover from up fast to down fast (or perhaps to down slow would be more likely) for trains exiting the sidings, reversing in the station and heading in the down direction. Finally, a crossover from down slow to down fast just below the platform.

 

In the bottom plan, I'd have a ladder from the branch to the down main, down main to up main and up main to up loop (no slips), plus a set of points for the down loop to rejoin the down main. If you like, you could turn this into a crossover to provide an independent line from the down platform to the branch without encroaching on the down main, which would be particularly useful if branch trains sometimes terminate in the station.

[Jabee]

21 minutes ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

 

In the bottom plan, I'd have a ladder from the branch to the down main, down main to up main and up main to up loop (no slips), plus a set of points for the down loop to rejoin the down main. If you like, you could turn this into a crossover to provide an independent line from the down platform to the branch without encroaching on the down main, which would be particularly useful if branch trains sometimes terminate in the station.

Thank you....to help me understand though, I would be very grateful if you could possibly sketch this out for me?

[Jeremy Cumberland]

5 hours ago, Jabee said:

Thank you....to help me understand though, I would be very grateful if you could possibly sketch this out for me?

 

I was thinking of something like this:

Trains to/from the branch can reverse in either platform (or in either of the through lines, if these are more for slow goods trains than fast expresses). Trains from the main line needing to reverse can only do so in the bottom platform or through line.

 

If there are lots of trains from the branch that reverse, you might add an extra track:

 

In an earlier age, you probably would not have had a single lead junction, and a steam era layout might look like this:

I've drawn it as a diamond crossing and a crossover, but a single slip is just as likely.

[DCB]

The basic scenario of a two platform 4 track station with a branch diverging is very rare and the only two I can think of are Totnes and Little Somerford(?) the Malmesbury Branch Junction on the Badminton route 

Edited August 5 by DCB

[Dagworth]

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Tonbridge/@51.1818654,0.3896878,358m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x47df2536ce10e873:0xf625ebb2b8e7ea7e!8m2!3d51.195043!4d0.27568!16zL20vMDF5MmJ2?entry=ttu

[Flying Pig]

Hitchin springs to mind as well.

[Michael Hodgson]

4 hours ago, DCB said:

The basic scenario of a two platform 4 track station with a branch diverging is very rare and the only two I can think of are Totnes and Little Somerford(?) the Malmesbury Branch Junction on the Badminton route 

Not that uncommon.  My local station (Hitchin, ECML) has two platforms serving the slow lines with fast lines down the middle and a double track branch to Cambridge.

https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/ecm1

 

Arelsey, Sandy and Huntingdon are also 4-track with platfroms serving the slow lines only

https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/ecm2

 

South of Hitchin station are Down Fast to Down Slow and Up Slow to Up Fast crossovers so that stopping trains can access the platforms from the fast.  At the North end of the station the Cambridge branch diverges.  So there is a facing crossover Down Slow to Fasr followed by Down Fast to Up Fast facing crossover (would not have been acceptable in the old days) and a facing point giving access via a diamond to Down Branch.  And and Up Fast to Slow crossover, and Up branch joins the Up Slow.

 

With the recent addition of a flyover north of the station (so that the frequnt Down branch service doesn't foul Up trains), there is a second Down Fast to slow crossover north of the station.  We have a few signals with flashing yellows

Edited August 3 by Michael Hodgson

[Siberian Snooper]

Three Bridges, main London to Brighton Line, double track branch to Horsham, single track branch to Tunbridge Wells.

 

 

[BasingAde]

I'd also add Havant with the branch to Hayling Island. There was branch access to the main lines and an independent  branch bay.

[Oldddudders]

On 03/08/2024 at 13:40, DCB said:

The basic scenario of a two platform 4 track station with a branch diverging is very rare.

Paddock Wood? Bays outside both mainline platforms, one serving the Medway Valley and the other the Hawkhurst branch. The former was reached by a double-track junction, until Bob Poynter got me to rationalise it. 

[DCB]

2 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Paddock Wood? Bays outside both mainline platforms, one serving the Medway Valley and the other the Hawkhurst branch. The former was reached by a double-track junction, until Bob Poynter got me to rationalise it. 

Its the lack of bays 4 roads, 2 platforms and terminating branch trains which is odd,  At both Totnes and Little Somerford the branch and main line trains used the same platforms.  Somerford the branch could only use the Up platform The Ashburton branch train used to lurk in the Goods shed road at times.   I suspect principal connections would need to use the same platform at Somerford and opposites at Totnes but confirmation would be good if anyone remembers how things were done in the 1950s pre closure of Malmesbury and Ashburton branches.

[KingEdwardII]

12 hours ago, DCB said:

Its the lack of bays 4 roads, 2 platforms and terminating branch trains which is odd

That is the point, I think.

 

The implication is that branch line trains don't terminate/originate at the station. This tends to happen where the "branch" is a substantial route in its own right, served by trains from somewhere further up the main line.

 

There are a number of stations of this kind along the south western main line from Waterloo - in general the trains run to/from Waterloo for both main & branch and you don't have bays.

 

This line has a lot of stations with 4 tracks but only 2 platform faces, on the outer "slow" lines. This is simply because the line is so busy that it is undesirable for trains to stop on the fast lines - only major stations like Woking and Basingstoke have platforms on all 4 tracks - and even at Wimbledon where there are platforms on the fast lines, they are locked out of use most of the year, until the tennis arrives, with its hordes of visiting fans!

 

Yours, Mike.

[roythebus1]

On 03/08/2024 at 13:40, DCB said:

The basic scenario of a two platform 4 track station with a branch diverging is very rare and the only two I can think of are Totnes and Little Somerford(?) the Malmesbury Branch Junction on the Badminton route 

Fratton, 4 track through station, double junction at one end along with the Hayling Island branch. At the ther end a double track main line to Portsmouth.

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, roythebus1 said:

Fratton, 4 track through station, double junction at one end along with the Hayling Island branch. At the ther end a double track main line to Portsmouth.

I think that's Havant, not Fratton.

[Chimer]

1 hour ago, roythebus1 said:

Fratton, 4 track through station, double junction at one end along with the Hayling Island branch. At the ther end a double track main line to Portsmouth.

 

I think you mean Havant, which is where the Hayling Island branch diverged and did (until quite recently) have four through tracks with only two platform faces?  Once upon a time, long long ago, there was a branch to Southsea from Fratton, but the through lines there were only ever double track with three platform faces (1 up, 2 down).

[KingEdwardII]

9 hours ago, Chimer said:

four through tracks with only two platform faces?

Yes, indeed - now reduced to two tracks along the platforms and a prairie in between...

 

The SRS site shows the old 4-track arrangement, including the junction to Hayling Island here:

 

https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/srj/R1220.htm

 

However, there was also a bay here for the Hayling Island branch.

 

Yours, Mike

[Harlequin]

Designing a station throat in isolation isn't going to be much use.

 

The station has to make the whole layout work. For instance, there's no point creating a branch line if it's got nowhere to go! It either has to terminate somewhere interesting or rejoin the main lines.

 

I'm worried by the description of the connection between the station and the fiddle yard. It sounds like the fiddle yard might just be an offscene extension of the station without much storage flexibility.

 

We really need to see the whole plan to be able to give you useful comments.

 

[RJS1977]

On 03/08/2024 at 18:37, Michael Hodgson said:

Not that uncommon.  My local station (Hitchin, ECML) has two platforms serving the slow lines with fast lines down the middle and a double track branch to Cambridge.

https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/ecm1

 

Arelsey, Sandy and Huntingdon are also 4-track with platfroms serving the slow lines only

https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/ecm2

 

South of Hitchin station are Down Fast to Down Slow and Up Slow to Up Fast crossovers so that stopping trains can access the platforms from the fast.  At the North end of the station the Cambridge branch diverges.  So there is a facing crossover Down Slow to Fasr followed by Down Fast to Up Fast facing crossover (would not have been acceptable in the old days) and a facing point giving access via a diamond to Down Branch.  And and Up Fast to Slow crossover, and Up branch joins the Up Slow.

 

With the recent addition of a flyover north of the station (so that the frequnt Down branch service doesn't foul Up trains), there is a second Down Fast to slow crossover north of the station.  We have a few signals with flashing yellows

 

I would say Newbury as well when the Lambourn branch was extant, although of course it had the DN&S passing through as well.

[DCB]

Surely Newbury had a separate Bay for Lambourne.   Newbury was one of those stations which could have used more platforms for interchange between DNS and GW Main line.