What are the legal issues for clubs seeking 'junior' members?

[TEAMYAKIMA]

10 hours ago, PMP said:

10 hours ago, PMP said:

It sounds like you really need to be asking yourselves :-

 

How do we attract new members, ideally younger than the current members?

 

That’s a whole different thread.

 

Yes, now that we seem to have settled the legal aspect, I totally agree with you. 

 

[tc]

On 28/06/2024 at 20:02, 009 micro modeller said:

I’m happy to be corrected on this but doesn’t the MRC usually have access to Keen House for its members outside of meeting times? Which is what I originally meant.

Hi - yes, whilst our formal 'all member' club session are on Thursday evenings (and one afternoon a month), other groups meeting at a variety of time across the week, plus we have a variety of other meetings in the building. But whilst we have the under 18 meetings, we restrict access to all members other than those directly involved - either as one of the core team, or attending with their child. 

 

And ref images - you will notice that most of the YMRC pictures are backs of heads, or just hands for that reason, or blurred out through using my average-poor editing capability on my phone. Although we do have a pile of consent forms covering the images that we recently took to be used in the Railway Modeller article - noting we don't give out any names to provide an extra layer of protection. The handling of the childrens' data is under tight control. 

 

I think all the key points have probably been covered - although one other worth noting is that I'm a statutory director of the limited company that runs the MRC - which give me a degree of legal protection and insurance cover should there be an issue either with YMRC or the events we organise. 

 

If anyone is serious about replicating what we've done at The Model Railway Club, happy to have a chat on Zoom / Teams etc - i know there is demand elsewhere in the country based on the enquires we get from the south coast to Scotland. 

 

Tom

YMRC Co-ordinator

Exhibitions Manager

The MRC

[kevinlms]

On 29/06/2024 at 19:00, Willie Whizz said:

No system of checks, regulations and procedures can ever be 100% foolproof, especially against a skilled manipulator, but from an organisational point of view surely the point has to be to be able to demonstrate that all ‘reasonable’ steps have been taken. 

Here's an example of a senior police officer who got away with his actions for 30 years. He was as you suggest highly skilled in his manipulating. It makes depressing reading, in that no one thought he could do such a thing and indeed an out of state policeman put in complaint about what other local police had been saying in the pub, yet nothing found!

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-07-04/weiss-report-on-paul-reynolds-child-sex-abuse/104056356

[bécasse]

I had a look at the Code of Conduct for the Market Research Society yesterday for another reason but took the opportunity to check its current rules on research using child respondents; I was a member of its Professional Standards Committee when the matter first arose and have since served as a Council member. The very strict rules which I remember, and which resulted from professional legal advice at the time, remain virtually unchanged but what surprises me is that they clearly define a child as someone who hasn't yet attained their sixteenth birthday, there are no restrictions on selecting sixteen and seventeen year old respondents that don't apply to adults too, even for depth interviews or focus groups on "sensitive*" subjects. Pure market research, because of its strict anonymity principles, has certain opt-outs from the law in respect of data protection but otherwise the law of the land applies.

 

Reading back through the responses here it seems that a child is taken to be someone who hasn't yet attained their eighteenth birthday (when they obviously become adults) and yet the Market Research Society rules which arise from the same law state sixteenth birthday. It seems to me, who became an active member of The Model Railway Club at the age of 14 just as Keen House opened in 1960, that the difference between 16 and 18 would make a huge difference to model railway (and indeed railway) clubs that wished to recruit junior members.

 

* which might, and do on occasion, include topics such as sexual experience or even drug taking

[kevinlms]

4 hours ago, bécasse said:

 

* which might, and do on occasion, include topics such as sexual experience or even drug taking

You could say that was actually being realistic, because as we know those under 14, 16, 18 or whatever, do undertake activities which either they are underage for, or are in fact illegal for anyone.

So should a survey only ask about topics that are legal for the person being asked? Probably not.

[Cwmtwrch]

14 hours ago, bécasse said:

what surprises me is that they clearly define a child as someone who hasn't yet attained their sixteenth birthday, there are no restrictions on selecting sixteen and seventeen year old respondents that don't apply to adults too,

Children 16+ have always been treated differently in UK law to younger children [but are still children legally]. The minimum age for valid sexual consent is 16. You can legally ride a moped at 16. Until very recently children of 16+ in the UK could legally marry with their parents' permission [the singer Tom Jones and his wife were both 16 at marriage in 1957]; it was changed by the Marriage and Civil Partnership (Minimum Age) Act of 2022, effective 27/2/2023, although this did not apply to Scotland. Children of 16+ can generally leave home without parental consent, and can be asked to leave by their parents. Some parental responsibilities may continue in most cases [and to some extent did so when such marriages were legal, even if the children were themselves parents]. In certain circumstances such children may be able to claim some state benefits as well and may be treated differently to younger children if safeguarding issues arise. They cannot enter into legal contracts until they are 18, in general, but there are certain limited  exceptions to this.

Edited July 8 by Cwmtwrch
correction

[009 micro modeller]

24 minutes ago, Cwmtwrch said:

Children 16+ have always been treated differently in UK law to younger children [but are still children legally]. The minimum age for valid sexual consent is 16. You can legally ride a moped at 16. Until very recently children of 16+ in the UK could legally marry with their parents' permission [the singer Tom Jones and his wife were both 16 at marriage in 1957]; it was changed by the Marriage and Civil Partnership (Minimum Age) Act of 2022, effective 27/2/2023, although this did not apply to Scotland. Children of 16+ can generally leave home without parental consent, and can be asked to leave by their parents. Some parental responsibilities may continue in most cases [and to some extent did so when such marriages were legal, even if the children were themselves parents]. In certain circumstances such children may be able to claim some state benefits as well and may be treated differently to younger children if safeguarding issues arise. They cannot enter into legal contracts until they are 18, in general, but there are certain limited  exceptions to this.

In some contexts I understand there is technically a difference for safeguarding purposes if contact with someone 16-17 is solely for the purpose of their employment and not for educational or other reasons. However even then it remains a bit of a grey area which is why safeguarding policies often define a child as under 18.