Train drivers in the wrong place

[Olive_Green1923]

What happens today if a train driver ends up miles from their depot or at the other end of the network at the end of their shift? Do they have to wait for a train back to where they need to go? Or do they have to stay in a hotel / take another form of transport directly back home? If they end up staying overnight in said location, would they usually get re-rostered on to a different train to take it back towards their home depot?

 

Edited June 24 by Olive_Green1923

[DCB]

In steam  days  a return on the cushions in a passenger train or in a brake van on a  freight  when the rostered working did not end "At Home" was the norm.  On some rosters the first leg was on the cushions by passenger train.  I have numerous books or engineman's reminiscences from the 20s to  the end of steam and all reference these returns via passenger trains or the brake van of a goods.
There were instances of loco men cadging a short lift on a light engine .Saltley depot to New Street   in one boo

 

In Diesel days I have heard of class 47s being used as a Taxi, at 0.5 MPG

[Glencoe Model Railway]

Nowadays it’s a taxi back or back on another service. It’s very rare for a driver to be that far away from their home depot these days due to more limited route knowledge. Only time recently where we had drivers stay overnight was a few years ago when the roads were closed too. 
 

Cheers

 

[John M Upton]

The driver is paid until he/she gets back to his home  depot (which in the case of the very heavy snow we had about ten or twelve years ago, was not until late the following morning).

 

More often than not the end of a drivers shift, particularly late at night either features a staff train or a company provided taxi back to their origin depot booking on point although in some cases where the driver lives where he or she has finished up, Bognor Regis for example, they will often just go straight home from there as it is quicker than waiting for taxis or staff trains to turn up.

[Jeremy Cumberland]

I've known a driver who ended up unexpectedly at the other end of the line with no obvious way home be put up in a hotel, and then a ride home on the cushions the following day, but this was very much the exception. I've no idea how this was booked in terms of hours, either for pay or for hours worked/rest period purposes.

 

None of my driver friends have ever mentioned being booked to start a turn away from their home depot.

 

It is common for a duty to begin or end with a ride on the cushions or in a taxi.

[roythebus1]

A lot of the freight drivers these days do a short day and still have a hotel for their time off as the train may run back the next day. I have a mate who does that, typically Acton to wherever the binliner goes to, lodges when it get there, takes the empties back the next day. He lives on the Mid-Sussex line! Like a lot of freight men, semi-retired, does a few days a week, most turns have a taxi or company van to get around as they don't get free travel on TOCs being freight men unless the freight company has an arrangement with the TOCs.

But in my time, 1970s to late 80s the only lodging that I am aware of was on the ECML at Kings Cross and Newcastle. It was always finish at home depot, either work back or on the cushions. Back pass as the diagram said.

[45125]

17 minutes ago, roythebus1 said:

A lot of the freight drivers these days do a short day and still have a hotel for their time off as the train may run back the next day. I have a mate who does that, typically Acton to wherever the binliner goes to, lodges when it get there, takes the empties back the next day. He lives on the Mid-Sussex line! Like a lot of freight men, semi-retired, does a few days a week, most turns have a taxi or company van to get around as they don't get free travel on TOCs being freight men unless the freight company has an arrangement with the TOCs.

But in my time, 1970s to late 80s the only lodging that I am aware of was on the ECML at Kings Cross and Newcastle. It was always finish at home depot, either work back or on the cushions. Back pass as the diagram said.

VXC drivers at Derby had a lodge job at Newcastle, worked 1S35 from Derby to NCl return the next day with 1V41 NCL- PLY to Derby, they also worked a Swansea NCL from Derby to Heaton with taxi back to Derby. These finished when VXC opened a depot at NCL.

[big jim]

I’m always staying away from home because I can’t get back or logistically it’s easier to lodge for the night, sometimes I may lodge ways for a few days depending on the job, I do a lot of cross depot cover with signing london to Carlisle and everywhere obscure in between, when we had the caravan in silloth I used to stay there if I was covering jobs up that way! 

 

it also sometimes happens that lodges happen unannounced maybe a late runner or as happened last week a ‘can you just’ tagged on the end of the job finished closer to the start of my next days job than going home and coming back again (couldn’t do it time wise either), I have in the past had to go out and buy toiletries and even a couple of times clothes as all I’ve had with me was the uniform on my back, you can claim it back as long as you haven’t gone out and bought Versace or the like! 
 

The RHTT season is an ‘away from depot’ job for me, that starts and finishes in kings Norton and it’s not possible to do the whole job with the drive to and from crewe at the start so I lodge in Longbridge and commute in from there to kings Norton every day on my pushbike 

 
TBH I quite enjoy staying away jobs 

[The Stationmaster]

12 hours ago, 45125 said:

VXC drivers at Derby had a lodge job at Newcastle, worked 1S35 from Derby to NCl return the next day with 1V41 NCL- PLY to Derby, they also worked a Swansea NCL from Derby to Heaton with taxi back to Derby. These finished when VXC opened a depot at NCL.

Birmingham XC crews also used to lodge in Bournemouth (and might still?  Somebody on here will know if he still works for XC)

[Rugd1022]

At Freightliner HH we rarely lodge away at our depot (Rugby), being fairly central our route knowledge is quite extensive but most jobs are one way with travelling pass / staff car / taxi either at the start or end of the job. The nature of the job means it can take several hours to load / unload the train so two way trips within a maximum 12 hour shift are difficult to do. Our route knowledge covers the WCML from London to Crewe via the Trent Valley, West Mids, Grand Junction and Sutton Park lines, all round the West Mids area plus Brum to Gloucester, Brum to Oxford, Brum to Leicester and Peterborough, the Midland Mainline from London to Toton plus the branch from Knighton Jcn to Mantle Lane, the Bedford to Bletchley branch, plus all the connecting lines that take in Cricklewood, Neasden, Acton and Willesden, then from Willesden on down to Battersea via Kensington Olympia, plus I think one or two of the chaps still sign Peterborough to March.

 

When travelling pass we sometimes have to show our Freight Duty ID cards which can also be used to get through barriers and we have an Oyster card if we need to travel on the tube (which most of us try to avoid!).

[45125]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

Birmingham XC crews also used to lodge in Bournemouth (and might still?  Somebody on here will know if he still works for XC)

XC Birmingham had a lodge job at Brighton before the depot opened there. Think Bristol had lodge job at Penzance at one time too. Catering crews used to lodge in quite a few places also.

 

East Coast at Ncl have a a lodge job at both Inverness and Aberdeen for time too.

[John M Upton]

On the West Highland Line, one train finishes at Mallaig every evening and from what I could see, seems to remain there overnight to work the first run back to Fort William the next morning.  Do the crew for that one lodge in Mallaig or is it a taxi to/from FTW job?

[Glencoe Model Railway]

1 hour ago, John M Upton said:

On the West Highland Line, one train finishes at Mallaig every evening and from what I could see, seems to remain there overnight to work the first run back to Fort William the next morning.  Do the crew for that one lodge in Mallaig or is it a taxi to/from FTW job?

Mallaig is actually a traincrew depot with about 5 or 6 drivers. I seem to recall that they actually have more work that the Fort William drivers. 
 

Cheers

 

 

[John M Upton]

1 hour ago, Glencoe Model Railway said:

Mallaig is actually a traincrew depot with about 5 or 6 drivers. I seem to recall that they actually have more work that the Fort William drivers. 
 

Cheers

 

 

 

I didn't know that!  I guess they probably never venture beyond Cranlairich!   Might have to apply for a transfer in ten years time...

[Glencoe Model Railway]

14 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

 

I didn't know that!  I guess they probably never venture beyond Cranlairich!   Might have to apply for a transfer in ten years time...

Indeed, they swap over with GQS drivers at Crianlarich. Oban drivers have one return trip to Glasgow a day but the rest of the time it’s Ardlui/Arrochar crossings. 
 

Our Kyle and Wick crews seem to have a similar level of simplicity in their diagrams. Kyle have two return trips, Wick have two full trips and cross with us at Lairg on the first one. Downside of Wick (apart from the town…) is that they are on rural contracts which are 11hrs long. 
 

Cheers

[SM42]

I vaguely recall the Dundee Plymouth catering crew had a lodge turn. 

 

Back in the says of BR, you could claim a lodge allowance as a relief signalman if you were working a run of shifts away from home station, 

 

The world has moved on from when people walked or cycled to work so the lodge turn has become a lot rarer now. 

 

Taxis are quite a common way of moving crew about. 

 

Andy

[adb968008]

6 hours ago, Glencoe Model Railway said:

Indeed, they swap over with GQS drivers at Crianlarich. Oban drivers have one return trip to Glasgow a day but the rest of the time it’s Ardlui/Arrochar crossings. 
 

Our Kyle and Wick crews seem to have a similar level of simplicity in their diagrams. Kyle have two return trips, Wick have two full trips and cross with us at Lairg on the first one. Downside of Wick (apart from the town…) is that they are on rural contracts which are 11hrs long. 
 

Cheers

Chatted to the lady at Wick 6 am one morning she says she’s regular 06.xx out arrives 18xx arrives back… starts the unit up first thing, shuts it down on return. Simple out and back shift.

 

 

[Glencoe Model Railway]

Aye that’s the mid shift job. Not 100% when they book on but they work 0802 south and 1400 north. Early shift books on 05xx preps the sets then takes 0618 to Lairg to swap with IS crew who work 0700 north. Wick crew get back in at 1130ish and that’s their day up. Their back shift is book on about 1200, work 1234 south and 1831 back, key out at 2250ish. 
I couldn’t have coped with the monotony of one route and one traction. Far better having the variety (4 routes and in my case 4 traction -158/170/08/HST) 

 

Nowadays it’s 4 hours a month driving to remain competent! Although I tend to

do a bit more. 

[roythebus1]

Which reminds me of a tale I've told before on here. In 1975 I was a secondman at rugby, lodging had been abolished at most places except the ECML. We had a management traincrew manager trainee by the name of Pipes. He was trying to be quite strict. there was some sort of dispute on about manning of the freight trains we were running at the time, a lot of part-fitted and loose-coupled slow speed stuff. Train crews would only work their booked service back even if they were running hours late. A Garston crew had arrived with train for London, got releived and went in the cabin to await their northbound freight which they thought was in the down gods loop. It wasn't their train, it had been there a day or so waiting for a crew. Pipes told the Garston me to work that train back. They refused, where was their train? running a few hours late was the answer. In that case they'd wait for it. Pipes was having none of it. You work tht train or I book you off. Mutterings round the cabin, Garston men say ok, you've booked us off, where's the lodge? Pipes had never heard of "the lodge" and was a bit lost for words, there wasn't one. So Garston men picked up their bags and went pass on the next train back to Garston! Their booked train also sat at Rugby for 24 hours or more.

[Oldddudders]

Mike Pipes. An occasional visitor to our (NSE SC) office at Waterloo in the late '80s, when he was in train-planning at Network North. Not always top of the pops with my train-planning colleagues, liaising on Thameslink services. 

[NIK]

Hi,

 

Coach drivers working out of Heathrow sometimes use the train to get back home at the end of a shift.

 

Regards

 

Nik

[Robert Shrives]

Hi 

No lodge turns at XC now as ASLEF and management agreement removed the option. So taxis abound - if they turn up!  Taxis Plymouth- Penzance  daily and Bournemouth - Eastleigh depot daily as well.  To cover jobs not unknown for Birmingham to all points of compass. 

 

IIRC in USA drivers have it a lot worse with hiring arrangements having to

sort themselves out if no return job. 

Robert   

[Rugd1022]

19 hours ago, roythebus1 said:

Which reminds me of a tale I've told before on here. In 1975 I was a secondman at rugby, lodging had been abolished at most places except the ECML. We had a management traincrew manager trainee by the name of Pipes. He was trying to be quite strict. there was some sort of dispute on about manning of the freight trains we were running at the time, a lot of part-fitted and loose-coupled slow speed stuff. Train crews would only work their booked service back even if they were running hours late. A Garston crew had arrived with train for London, got releived and went in the cabin to await their northbound freight which they thought was in the down gods loop. It wasn't their train, it had been there a day or so waiting for a crew. Pipes told the Garston me to work that train back. They refused, where was their train? running a few hours late was the answer. In that case they'd wait for it. Pipes was having none of it. You work tht train or I book you off. Mutterings round the cabin, Garston men say ok, you've booked us off, where's the lodge? Pipes had never heard of "the lodge" and was a bit lost for words, there wasn't one. So Garston men picked up their bags and went pass on the next train back to Garston! Their booked train also sat at Rugby for 24 hours or more.

 

I've heard that one before from other sources Roy!

 

I actually had a two way job today, one of the few we have at Rugby, albeit not a strictly 'out and back' job - I booked on at 06.55, drove a staff car over to Kettering to relieve another Rugby man on 6M39 for Radlett, took it down there to unload then worked the empties back north as 6V54 to Landor Street for relief by a Bristol man, then home on the cushions. Four cups of tea, two scones, a ham and cheese bap and a banana just about lasted me through the day 😉

[8K77]

When EWS bought the former regional Trainload Freight Companies in 1996 it set about harmonizing Traincrew's Terms and Conditions and it also wanted to make traincrew diagrams more productive and this came at a price. The drivers wages rose from 12k a year to 20k. 

The newly EWS wanted its drivers to fuel and sand there own locomotives on fuel points, carry out driver only run rounds when the rolling stock permitted it and drivers lodging away from the home depot. 

 

A couple depots that I was involved with was Knottingley and Rotherham and Ayr. At Knottingley traditionally a depot that didn't fly far away from the depot (York, Hull, Immingham) was the furthest they went in the late 1990s Trainload Coal managed to get increase the route knowledge to Maltby, Harworth, Oxcroft. With the completion of the FGD plant Drax Power Station this saw new Gypsum traffic in 1994 to Kirkby Thore and Mountfield. The depot was split into 2 links a North and South Link and they learned the road a little further Leicester in the South and Skipton in the North! With the Increase in Anglo Scottish Coal in 1997 A 3rd link was created this being the "Lodge Link" and 20 men was in this link and they learned the road to Ayr via the S&C and ECML and Tyne Valley and Sou West to Ayr and they lodged in Ayr at 1st the depot had 2 lodging turns this increased within a year to 6 turns. Ayr respectively also had lodging turns and this saw Ayr Drivers lodge in Pontefract with the 2 jobs that they had. The South Link also gained a Lodging Turn for the Mountfield Gypsum Train 6O81/6E19 the driver booked on prepared the loco shunted the set together at Knottingley and took the empties to Drax and loaded the train 4hrs and then worked the job to Leicester and then worked 6E19 back the next day. 

 

Rotherham also had a few lodging turns these being Hull Saltend to Baglan Bay Chemical tanks the driver worked the Empties WED, FRI from Rotherham to Hull Saltend and then worked the train back to Saltley and went into Lodge. On a Monday they worked the Immingham to Hull Saltend tanks from Doncaster and like the rest of the week they worked they worked the loaded train to Saltley and went into lodge. They worked the return working back the next day through to Hull and light loco back to Doncaster and then taxi back to Rotherham. 

 

When I worked at Freightliner Heavy Haul at Ferrybridge there was lodge link made of 35 men from a mixture of local depots being Ferrybrdge, Midland Road and Doncaster learned the road to Hunterston, New Cumnock, Greenburn, Chalmeston and Killoch. This link remained right up until the cessation of the Anglo Scottish Coal Traffic. The Depot at Immingham also had lodging turns when they moved the LPG Traffic from Humber Oil Refinery, they Lodged in Manchester and Birmingham on these turns. 

 

In the current day DB Cargo's North East Hub, ended its lodging turn in London during this month when The Royal Main decided to withdraw its direct train from Low Fell to Willesdedn Princess Royal Distribution Centre. Tyne Drivers worked this in a link of 8 drivers that worked South on 1M80 and Brought back 1E06 the next day on Sunday a Tyne Driver would pass to London and go into the Hotel ready to work 1E06 on a monday and 1M80s driver on a Saturday would after having a kip pass back to Tyne Yard.

 

Thanks, 

K77

[Edwin_m]

Mentioned in July's Modern Railways that Lumo are looking to put on a late evening London-Newcastle and early morning return, and this will mean the crews from their current last working into London and first working out no longer have to lodge there.