Replacing Hornby Dublo couplings?

[AuraDoesThings]

Hi all.

 

I recently picked up an old Dublo 2-rail class 28. I'm aware that it's an old model, but it was less than half the price of the Heljan 28, so to me it's more than worth it. However, it has the old Dublo style couplings held in with a screw through the top, and I wish to replace these with tension locks so I can run it with my other stock.

 

None of my existing couplings seem to fit. The pivot point on them clashes with the bogie, not to mention the Dublo coupling screw being bigger than the Triang one, so even a coupling with the pivot broken off wouldn't fit. Is there a known tension lock coupling that will fit on the model? And if not, what's the alternative?

 

I'm ideally looking for a solution readily available to those in the UK market, as overseas shipping costs a fortune nowadays. Thanks in advance for anyone that can help.

[DCB]

Try a Triang / Hornby metal tension lock from the late 60/ 70s , solder an extension ( Brass plate?) to the fixing hole end to reach the rivet hole in the chassis.    I think I tap the rivet holes 8BA when fitting new couplings.  Arguably the best tension lock is the TT version,  the worst, well anything flopping about in an NEM pocket, Mainline.....

I usually find myself fitting H/ couplings to more recent RTR   Hattons, Heljan,  Bachmann, Oxford etc but I have been changing some surplus Triang etc back from H/D or Peco  to tension lock to re sell re sell as they sell better with OE couplings.

[andyman7]

Welcome to the world of 1960s ready to run model railways with two competing coupling systems which were not only incompatible but also not easy to swap over! There is no tension lock coupling that will just 'fit', it's a matter of choosing which tension lock you want to try and attach and adapting the mounting to suit.

 

Back in the 60s your one choice in 00 would have been the Triang standard pressed metal X171 with the three hole mount, fitted by fashioning an adapter to allow attaching to the single central Dublo boss. However in 2024 there are a host of tension lock couplers and/or NEM mountings that could be used. It depends on how 'reversible' you want the operation to be, but the main requirements are to get the height right and to try and set the distance so there's enough clearance for the coupling to work without leaving a huge gap. Or you could buy one of these as sold in the 1960s by Triang to allow the use of Hornby-Dublo locos:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/156253318799?itmmeta=01J15WZJ7WWPD0ZC7A0ZQ3SYHR&hash=item24616c6e8f:g:ilcAAOSwmYFmaZx8&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA8DDyjVAA6pazk9%2B3lLgYAHFZIuccQS3%2FwHdAzbdlJkz4WO9AbPGpEhtxbL78zP8QPTPBB%2Fvxp%2FRl%2BiLp%2BhBOSge1NNklSpBzRoX2q04qjYyP%2BP49e4fjTwgLE%2B0rx74fhQcLL%2F6U%2F5E6q2b2k7hG7W2gqLMSnF6vOi71GrHaUElR%2FDW3GzPYDXfPqgPFK4bwl%2FIybILBkefL7SLm2Jr11oHB5xh0aKmKrhYTQt%2FmUAxp5bnRSXmvrbJylisRI9iusMVuqS1cOFvTqlnwGjCLgl6J1Ljx1T9OketaTREQIXhaeMP9ucwplz42xgk%2Bjc64Fw%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR46k_ryJZA

[Halvarras]

There was a horse box converter wagon as well, which (sort of) looked more at home with passenger stock.......

[AuraDoesThings]

50 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

Welcome to the world of 1960s ready to run model railways with two competing coupling systems which were not only incompatible but also not easy to swap over! There is no tension lock coupling that will just 'fit', it's a matter of choosing which tension lock you want to try and attach and adapting the mounting to suit.

 

Back in the 60s your one choice in 00 would have been the Triang standard pressed metal X171 with the three hole mount, fitted by fashioning an adapter to allow attaching to the single central Dublo boss. However in 2024 there are a host of tension lock couplers and/or NEM mountings that could be used. It depends on how 'reversible' you want the operation to be, but the main requirements are to get the height right and to try and set the distance so there's enough clearance for the coupling to work without leaving a huge gap. Or you could buy one of these as sold in the 1960s by Triang to allow the use of Hornby-Dublo locos:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/156253318799?itmmeta=01J15WZJ7WWPD0ZC7A0ZQ3SYHR&hash=item24616c6e8f:g:ilcAAOSwmYFmaZx8&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA8DDyjVAA6pazk9%2B3lLgYAHFZIuccQS3%2FwHdAzbdlJkz4WO9AbPGpEhtxbL78zP8QPTPBB%2Fvxp%2FRl%2BiLp%2BhBOSge1NNklSpBzRoX2q04qjYyP%2BP49e4fjTwgLE%2B0rx74fhQcLL%2F6U%2F5E6q2b2k7hG7W2gqLMSnF6vOi71GrHaUElR%2FDW3GzPYDXfPqgPFK4bwl%2FIybILBkefL7SLm2Jr11oHB5xh0aKmKrhYTQt%2FmUAxp5bnRSXmvrbJylisRI9iusMVuqS1cOFvTqlnwGjCLgl6J1Ljx1T9OketaTREQIXhaeMP9ucwplz42xgk%2Bjc64Fw%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR46k_ryJZA

The converter wagons seem like a decent solution, although I'm not too big of a fan of plastic wheels, so until I'm more confident in replacing the older Triang style axles, I'll probably pass on one for now. As for reversibility, I realistically probably won't ever want to swap back as I'm going to be doing other modifications that'd ruin any potential resale value, but at the same time a reversible solution would probably be good just in case something goes wrong and I need to replace the entire coupling setup. I have to admit, I'm surprised that nobody's attempted to make a tension lock coupling for Dublo models. At the very least it seems like the sort of thing someone with a 3D printer would make and sell.

[Colin_McLeod]

You could also consider making your own converter wagon using a metal wheeled coach or wagon of your choice.  Putting  HD coupling on a modern model might be easier.

 

Just a thought: does anyone produce a HD coupling designed to fit into an NEM pocket?

[AuraDoesThings]

32 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said:

You could also consider making your own converter wagon using a metal wheeled coach or wagon of your choice.  Putting  HD coupling on a modern model might be easier.

That is also an option, although I do like to vary my consists a lot so it wouldn't always be suitable, and obviously my shunters (some of which have their tension lock couplings moulded to the chassis) wouldn't be able to interact with this wagon. Still, it would be better than nothing I guess.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Drill two holes in the bufferbeam to take 'florists wire' shaped into a 'goalpost', Secure with Araldite when you have the right shape and position for the coupling hook to engage reliably. That's how many of us did it 'back in the day' when the massive Triang 'Volvo bumper' was the other common OO coupler option. Alternative location, mount the goal post in the bogie ends if space between bogie and body work allows.

[andyman7]

1 hour ago, Colin_McLeod said:

You could also consider making your own converter wagon using a metal wheeled coach or wagon of your choice.  Putting  HD coupling on a modern model might be easier.

 

Just a thought: does anyone produce a HD coupling designed to fit into an NEM pocket?

Apparently Peco were planning a NEM-mounted version of their 'Simplex' coupling (which is the same as the H-D design, indeed it was Peco that licensed it to Meccano) - however this was abandoned.

 

Wrenn wagons and coaches are well suited to make up 'converter' wagons as they were made from Hornby Dublo tools modified so that they also had mounting points for Triang type Tension Lock couplers.

[LowerUphamMike]

1 hour ago, Halvarras said:

There was a horse box converter wagon as well, which (sort of) looked more at home with passenger stock.......

Yes, the horse box converter wagon  is quite a good option. I managed to get one, still boxed but cosmetically slightly tatty, for very little money relatively recently. I added glazing, an interior for the groom’s compartment, repainted it, added some transfers and removed the original wheels and fitted brass top hat bearings and slightly smaller wheels on pinpoint axles, which lowers it to the height of the Hornby Dublo super detail coaches.

Re-worked it not only looks good, but it also provides the perfect link visually between modern locos and the HD coaches. It’s also prototypically correct, as it was not uncommon for horse boxes to be placed behind the locomotive on even express passenger trains on occasions.

[locomad2]

Operating a fairly large layout with both HD and tension lock coupling i found that its a lot easier to use converter wagons or coaches than mess about changing half the stock to get a common standard.

 

Various methods used mixed traffic locos ie HD 2-6-4T often have different coupling on the bogie at each end,  a wrenn/HD mix

 

Mentioned before triang converter wagon sits a bit high, however early Wrenn chassis can easily be convertered to both, also Airfix kit wagons can be easily fitted with both coupling plus the Airfix "buckeye" works with Peco coupling 

 

Coaches both Trix (3.8mm to foot) and Kitmaster bogies can be fitted with both Peco and tension lock

 

For automatic uncoupling HD ramp uncouplers will work on both types.

 

My own view Peco operate the best especially when set properly,  the metal ones do need resetting,  tension lock seen to suffer from decoupling, don't like been shuntered in long trains, cannot fly or hump shunt, and a nightmare when whole trains derail, plus not all tension lock are compatible with each other.

 

I also use different types of coupling on small amount of stock Chain link looks good especially taking photos, plus i have a few small tank engines with chain link, ( big coupling looks supid), however all the buffers must be at the right hight. Wire in loop for fixed coach rakes,  American tension lock Joueff ?, American buckeye, airfix buckeye

[Halvarras]

5 hours ago, AuraDoesThings said:

The converter wagons seem like a decent solution, although I'm not too big of a fan of plastic wheels, so until I'm more confident in replacing the older Triang style axles, I'll probably pass on one for now. As for reversibility, I realistically probably won't ever want to swap back as I'm going to be doing other modifications that'd ruin any potential resale value, but at the same time a reversible solution would probably be good just in case something goes wrong and I need to replace the entire coupling setup. I have to admit, I'm surprised that nobody's attempted to make a tension lock coupling for Dublo models. At the very least it seems like the sort of thing someone with a 3D printer would make and sell.

 

A couple of HD Co-Bos have passed through my hands over the years, and a visual improvement I did to both was modifying the '2D' battery boxes between the bogies to '3D' in plasticard, making the 'backing plate' long enough to add a vacuum (??) cylinder in half-relief (the first one in 1976 used sections cut from the barrel of a cheap ball-point pen as I recall!) The point to watch was leaving enough space between the two sides to get the chassis in and out.

[Il Grifone]

My problem is the other way round as I favour the Peco/HD coupling!

However for Locomotives a simple bar (less hook) is quite adequate for locomotives. This is easily made from wire.

Alternatively the much neater Mainline couplings (with the spring loaded hook) can be used. (Supply is the problem.)

 

The plastic HD coupling is awful, both in appearance and operation and gets replaced with a proper metal one (unless the item in question is a 'collectible' of course). Trix made a much nicer one, but unfortunately this is not compatible with Dublo uncouplers, (due to clearance problems with archaic steamroller wheels!).

 

The open axlebox Tri-ang wheelsets are held together by two splines which hold one of the wheels to the axle allowing the other to move independently. This just needs pushing out of the axleboxes. Luckily modern wheels will shift on the axles to allow replacement, though the vehicle will still sit too high. Alernatively some sort of internal bearing can be used.

These (both replacement wheels (Peco) and inside bearing units (Nucro)) used to be available from the trade, though the replacement wheels were still plastic (nylon).

 

[Michael Hodgson]

Several years ago I picked up a HD Co-bo in brand new boxed condition quite cheaply, intending to use it in place of the rather battered example I already had.  However I learned that these locos were quite scarce in good condition and quite valuabl as a collectors' item.  So I hung on to it for few years and sold it for a decent profit.  I assume they're no longer in such demand and the Heljan model now available is much better.

 

I have converted a few HD vehicles (mostly wagons) to X171 tension lock using a cast white metal adaptor that came with a small brass nut and bolt, but I doubt if its still available.  However I can't remember the make, although for some reason Wyatt & Tizard of Birmingham or Eames of Reading come to mind?

[AuraDoesThings]

24 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

I assume they're no longer in such demand and the Heljan model now available is much better.

Well, they seem to be fetching triple digit prices online, but compared to the Heljan model, they're quite a bit cheaper.

 

2 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

Alternatively the much neater Mainline couplings (with the spring loaded hook) can be used. (Supply is the problem.)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't these the same as the Bachmann Branchline coupling? I'm afraid I've already tried experimenting with one of these, and the box with the hook clashes with the bogie on the 28, so it can't be fitted.

 

10 hours ago, locomad2 said:

Operating a fairly large layout with both HD and tension lock coupling i found that its a lot easier to use converter wagons or coaches than mess about changing half the stock to get a common standard.

That might be the case if you have a lot of mixed stock, but for me the 28 is the only Dublo item I plan on using, so for me a solution to give the engine a new coupling is better than having to faff about with a bunch of converter wagons for different types of trains.

[DCB]

t's not difficult to make a converter coach.  Many coaches from 1980 - 2010 have plug in bogies and a spare bogie with a H/D coupling can be substituted in seconds.    The Triang / Hornby converter wagon are hopeless.   The wagon is a 1960s cast mazak chassis and they derail constantly at the head of a train of H/D wagons and the Horse box is AFAIK massively overscale.   Almost all G R Wrenn re releases of  H/D wagons had Triang X 171 (?) couplers but still retained the fixing bosses for H/D couplings.    The Brake van and LWB vans make excellent converter vehicles.

I operate a large number of converter vehicles.   Most of my coach rakes have Triang  X171 (?)  couplings between vehicles and Hornby Dublo or Peco at the ends.  The X171 are positioned to close couple the coaches similar or closer than 2020 era RTR   Some  Bachmann etc coaches with coupling closers etc and or NEM pockets are going to be changed because my min radius is 3rd radius and the closers are pointless and the couplings constantly pull out of NEM sockets.  
Almost all my wagons are on H/D Chassis including 2010 era RTR Bodies because the H/D rakes of up to 22 wagons can be reversed reliably through 2ft radius crossovers, and off the shelf 2010 era  RTR can not.

[locomad2]

13 hours ago, AuraDoesThings said:

Well, they seem to be fetching triple digit prices online, but compared to the Heljan model, they're quite a bit cheaper.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't these the same as the Bachmann Branchline coupling? I'm afraid I've already tried experimenting with one of these, and the box with the hook clashes with the bogie on the 28, so it can't be fitted.

 

That might be the case if you have a lot of mixed stock, but for me the 28 is the only Dublo item I plan on using, so for me a solution to give the engine a new coupling is better than having to faff about with a bunch of converter wagons for different types of trains.

 

 

See your point convert it to tension lock and all the stock the same. Plus you don't want to alter bogie so de value the loco.

 

Try this 

 

 

Remove the body, remove the screw coupling replace the coupling with an Airfix tension lock, there are two types big thick one and a narrow smaller one, Big one works better. You might find you need a slightly longer screw ,BA8 or BA6 to fit nut.

 

It just fits under the body.

 

The bogie is similar to the class 20, i believe the Wrenn class 208 can fit both types as a  screw fit. The Dublo ones a rivits with metal coupling however often 2nd hand examples have broken coupling, i nearly aways replace with a screw, which makes it easier to fit different coupling.

 

In the photo its a traing converter wagon with peco bearing its slightly lower due to smaller wheels but same buffer height as HD.

 

Note also the bogie is very similar to the class 20, I've seen over the years so called mint boxed examples of the Co-Bo with class 20 side frames, even cut down class 20 bogies with Co-Bo side frames, there are different casting, easy to inter change prehaps even late factory examples different types. Lot happened after Hornby went bust, did wrenn build a few ? Ive seen un painted alloy bodies on sale for silly prices. Also both examples are live chassis, the Bo-Bo has a tendency to short its side frames very low, plus connect the HD mail coach the wrong way round both with metal coupling, and it  shorts and it won't move.

 

 

[AuraDoesThings]

9 hours ago, locomad2 said:

Remove the body, remove the screw coupling replace the coupling with an Airfix tension lock, there are two types big thick one and a narrow smaller one, Big one works better. You might find you need a slightly longer screw ,BA8 or BA6 to fit nut.

So, the Airfix coupling will work on the Dublo model? I have come Hornby couplings that have the same clip style as the Airfix ones, and the hole for the clip just seems a tiny bit too small to fit on the screw.

[locomad2]

4 hours ago, AuraDoesThings said:

So, the Airfix coupling will work on the Dublo model? I have come Hornby couplings that have the same clip style as the Airfix ones, and the hole for the clip just seems a tiny bit too small to fit on the screw.

 

 

Mine are a tight screw fit, the BA6 thread cuts a very small thread within the C cut hole

 

Use either a BA screw thread or HD coupling thread as shown on right coupling, in the middle is a mark 3 triang the hole in centre just fits a BA6 or similar self tap.

 

Coupling i call the Airfix type were fitted on Airfix rtr in 1980's there is a very nice looking narrow one, early form of NEM, I think still available as Dapol or Hornby  X8889?

 

Over the years ive fitted these to all kind of "coupling less" bogie trucks Dublo locos, Castles been the most common on the front plus a few single axle pony trucks 8F and 2-6-4T using the narrow one which i have none left cause they are all used up

 

[locomad2]

On 25/06/2024 at 08:46, Il Grifone said:

 

 

The plastic HD coupling is awful, both in appearance and operation and gets replaced with a proper metal one (unless the item in question is a 'collectible' of course). Trix made a much nicer one, but unfortunately this is not compatible with Dublo uncouplers, (due to clearance problems with archaic steamroller 

 

I find trix couplings works fine with both manual and automatic HD track uncouplers as you said its the old trix wheels which don't run though.

 

Later trix especially the 3.8mm coaches run fine, in fact I find too well. They are very free running as  I believe the plastic bogies have graphite added plus pin point axles,  left on there own in a siding they creep when traffic passes nearby due to suction, one has to add heavy dicast HD parcel vans to stop them moving. On the other hand a "Pug" could easily shunt 8 on its own

 

 

[1E BoY]

On 25/06/2024 at 10:16, Michael Hodgson said:

Several years ago I picked up a HD Co-bo in brand new boxed condition quite cheaply, intending to use it in place of the rather battered example I already had.  However I learned that these locos were quite scarce in good condition and quite valuabl as a collectors' item.  So I hung on to it for few years and sold it for a decent profit.  I assume they're no longer in such demand and the Heljan model now available is much better.

 

I have converted a few HD vehicles (mostly wagons) to X171 tension lock using a cast white metal adaptor that came with a small brass nut and bolt, but I doubt if its still available.  However I can't remember the make, although for some reason Wyatt & Tizard of Birmingham or Eames of Reading come to mind?

The white metal conversion sets were supplied by Eames and were available from W & H near Baker Street. They came with all the nuts and bolts required (two adaptors per pack) but not the metal Tri-ang coupling. The Hornby Dublo coupling rivet had to be drilled out and the new coupling attached through the hole left by removing the rivet. The white metal casting looked better when painted black. It is listed under Eames in the 1979 W & H catalogue with a product number of E11 and the price list quotes 27p. Unfortunately I cannot yet find an illustration of one.

 

Another alternative is to use a Wrenn wagon. These had metal wheels and Tri-ang (Tri-ang Hornby later) coupling and the original ones had a pair of HD plastic couplings to fit. Worth looking out for on exhibition or swapmeet stalls.

 

I have a rake of Hornby Dublo cars and bought a Wrenn version. I swapped a Wrenn bogie for a Hornby Dublo one giving me two convertor brake coaches. The Pullman coaches are better then than the Super Detail coaches as they have a metal bolt which screws into the roof whilst SD coaches have bogies rivetted on.

Edited June 27 by 1E BoY
word coupling added to second paragraph

[1E BoY]

Look out for Wrenn wagons sold under the Tri-ang Wrenn partnership. It changed to G & R Wrenn after the demise of the Tri-ang empire in 1971, with Wrenn once again being owned by the Wrenn family. I don't recall the post 1971 packs having the HD plastic couplings in them.

Edited June 27 by 1E BoY
Final sentence added

[AuraDoesThings]

Sorry for the delay in posting, but I eventually decided to go with the Airfix style coupling solution that locomad2 suggested. The slight difference in coupling heights was annoying me though, so I did make some minor files in the chassis block to drop them down, but they're small enough to where I can still put the original couplings back on if I ever feel the need to for some reason. I'll grab some photos of how the conversion went whenever I'm able to.

[cypherman]

Hi all,

This is a picture of an LNER G5 I did Modifying as a starting point an old Triang M7. You can see the simple bar coupling on the front that has been mentioned here earlier. Made from florist wire.

The other simple option is to use an NEM coupling pocket and glue that in place. Then slot which ever coupling you wish to use in it.

Edited July 17 by cypherman