US N Gauge Layout with Classification Yard (UP/BNSF/CSX/NS)

[MarshLane]

I have started this topic a bit earlier than I had considered doing, primarily to bring together a whole host of thoughts, hopefully some discussion, and a place to record the initial planning, so apologies in advance that this will be a slow burn.

 

After messing about with various ideas over the past five or six years, none of which I have been totally happy with, or which have had issues or caused problems, I have decided to go for a permanent layout which will, without doubt, be a slow burn.  The aim is to combine the best parts of what I see from some of the Tehachapi, Virtual Railfan and LiveTrains webcams, with plenty of operational activity and scenic options. 

 

I started off collecting the 'special liveried' Union Pacific locos that were produced by Kato in N gauge, nearly 10 years ago. These were purely for display, but then you think oh well a few cars (wagons) to go behind them on the shelf would look good!  Before I knew it I now have about 22 locos and over 90 odd freight cars!

 

The new layout will feature some through running, a large-ish (16 road classification road (tiny by US standards but limited by space!) and the ability to run long (40-50 car) trains.  The main yard will be UP, complete with engine facility (depot) but the mainline will have run-through rights with BNSF, NS and CPKC.  There will be a separate CSX route which crosses through diamonds in a north-south style, but is linked to the UP east/west.  The layout, being fixed, will be twin level, with storage roads below, and the scenic sections above.

 

The boards will be built away from the room and moved in, on the track is laid, wired up and tested on them.  Control will be Digitrax DCC, and the aim is to recreate some of the fascinating operations for the cameras. Trackwork in the scenic section will be handbuilt, I am not sure about the hidden sidings yet, I may go Peco metre-lengths for speed, but unconvinced on points.  Pointwork will be controlled through wire-in-tube to servos mounted in easily accessible positions on the board edges, controlled by MERG CBUS boards, which will also operate signals and feedback on DCC detection.

 

Lot of track planning to do yet, I have got a good basis for what I want to achieve, and where I want it to go, but I am hoping the first board will be built late summer.  I am still collecting locos and freight cars for it.  There will be a need for a large number of intermodal and coal hoppers!  I have about 12 of the former and 36 of the latter at the moment, so almost one complete rake of coal wagons.  I estimate it needs another four rakes.

 

 

Thanks to TrainTrax in York, I have just added two locos, another of the UP heritage liveries that was missing, and my first Amtrak loco - the layout will have a Amtrak stop for the occasional passenger working!

 

 

Both are DC only, but the decoder is here for the SD70Ace (UP1995), and I need to acquire the appropriate one for AMTK100.

 

I'll post a better idea of the layout design shortly, and a plan once I have got it to a suitable place in Templot!

 

Rich

Edited June 22 by MarshLane

[MarshLane]

Reserved for Future Index

[MarshLane]

So, a few words as to what the new layout is based on. While there is no actual imagery, the track design is well underway.

The concept is that it will be twin level, the bottom level will all be storage (with accessibility to get in to re-rail anything that may come off) and the main layout on top. I have about 22ft x 11ft of space, which will be split into three sections, length ways. This will allow wide curves and long trains. The idea is that trains will emerge on the back long side, having climbed from the hidden sidings on very gentle grade over a length of about 60ft, and pass through a short (8-10ft) canyon scene (which keeps the concept of the original plan I had for my portable layout), in the process curving to emerge from a tunnel onto the middle long length, crossing a river. The idea is that the scene here will be similar to the scene from the Blue Island (weblink) webcam, with two pairs of lines approaching in a 'Y' style. Two will form the main around the rest of the layout, the other two will give access into the yard and intermodal 'through' roads at the back of the yard. This section will be joint UP/BNSF operation, with trackage rights covering NS, CPKC, CN. Two of the lines will deviate at this stage curving left to join CSX metals, which will cross the four UP/BNSF lines on the level through diamonds.

Continuing down the main, the yard will start with the four intermodal 'through' and refuelling roads at the back, then seven arrival/departure roads for the yard, the main lines, access to the 'coal' sidings and finally the Amtrak platform. The coal siding will be four or six through roads allowing the stabling of loaded and empty coal sets out of the way, in an area known as 'the coal hole'. All will form a gentle 180 degree curve over an eight-nine foot diameter. The yard arrival/departure roads will then come back to a double track section leading into the sorting sidings. The yard will be flat shunted, and adjacent to this 'pinch-point' for the yard will be the locomotive facility for stabling and servicing. A lot of this area will be based on Barstow in California, with input from the CSX loco depot at Cumberland, the NS yard at Conway in Pennsylvania and a tiny but from UPs Bailey Yard. I dont have the width to go as large as I would like, but hopefully it should represent a busy yard. Further along, the classification sidings will come back to a point giving departures an easy route out from this end, joining with the intermodal through roads, the main and the 'coal hole' access, before curving round in a city surrounding to disappear between buildings and return back down to the hidden sidings.

 

The CSX route will emerge from the hidden sidings and pass a small intermodal facility, before curving 45 degrees to cross the UP/BNSF lines on a north/south axis. There will be access in both directions on a west-east axis, between the UP/BNSF and CSX routes. Once over the diamonds, this line will complete the last bit of a 'S' bend to descend back to the hidden sidings, under the main yard and 'coal hole'.

That is the grand plan. It will not be an overnight build, far from it! The hidden sidings will be three groups of three roads, each around 16-18ft in length, with 8-10 roads in each group, with perhaps a couple of longer ones for things like the BNSF grain train and automotive trips, workings that might have mid and rear train helpers. There will also be two short locomotive stabling areas, with each road able to accommodate probably nine locos (three pairs of three) and five to six roads in each area, giving plenty of expansion for the loco fleet in the future.

All of this will be DCC controlled, I have a Digitrax system, with some aspects (such as the hidden sidings) automatically controlled using TrainController, iTrain or some software system. The primary work initially will be board-by-board, laying, wiring and testing each hidden road, before putting the top covering on and working on the scenic section.  I have learnt from others that the hidden sidings need to be able to accommodate a larger number of trains that you think you need!! But hopefully once operational, it should be fun to operate and be achievable to create a busy main line railroad with a single operator, me!  There will be times when friends are over to operate as well, but I anticipate primarily it will be one-man-operation.

Rich

 

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Wow!  A grand plan - will follow with interest (and agree it won’t be quick).  Have to agree with your choice of Kato US N scale locomotives: I’ve often noted that the best loco I’ve ever had was one of theirs - and given that I’ve also owned a variety of Contintental locos (incl. Fleischmann, Roco amd Bemo) that is genuine high praise.  Look forwards to seeing more, Keith.

[stivesnick]

Hi - will follow with interest. I am struggling to picture the big plan, so a block plan showing the key features would be useful as 22 x 11 feet doesn't look that big with what you are trying to do. Talk of switching in the yard, suggests some local industries or local workings to off stage industries but nothing is specifically mentioned, so how would this work on the layout?

 

Regards 

 

Nick 

[MarshLane]

6 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

Wow!  A grand plan - will follow with interest (and agree it won’t be quick).  Have to agree with your choice of Kato US N scale locomotives: I’ve often noted that the best loco I’ve ever had was one of theirs - and given that I’ve also owned a variety of Contintental locos (incl. Fleischmann, Roco amd Bemo) that is genuine high praise.  Look forwards to seeing more, Keith.

 

Thanks Keith, yes very impress with the Kato products to be honest. I also like the 'drop-in' decoder idea (available across a few manufacturers) which for non-sound at least, makes decoder fitment a breeze!

 

 

2 hours ago, stivesnick said:

Hi - will follow with interest. I am struggling to picture the big plan, so a block plan showing the key features would be useful as 22 x 11 feet doesn't look that big with what you are trying to do. Talk of switching in the yard, suggests some local industries or local workings to off stage industries but nothing is specifically mentioned, so how would this work on the layout?

Nick 

 

Hi Nick,

As soon as I have got things nailed down a bit further in Templot, I'll post a bit more detailed plan.  The size I have got is not that big for what I want to do, I agree, but it is what we I have.  If I could convince the neighbours to move and bequeath their house to me, I could knock through and double the length!!    But I think it should work for what I want to do.

 

I will be honest and say I have never been to America.  Some friends got me into American Railroading a few years ago, watching the web cams that are littered across America, and I tend to watch the Tehachapi, VR Barstow, LT Blue Island and UP Bailey Yard cameras quite a bit when I am working.  So the layout is intended to be a bit of a Barstow style yard, classifying cars for onward distribution rather than serving local industries.  There will be a couple of local trips, but they will go off-scene.  The only local trip will be the occasional short intermodal from the yard round to the CSX terminal.

 

Hopefully, this very rough diagram will make the test above a bit easier to understand...

 

 

 

.. I am hoping that slightly different levels and buildings/trees as view blockers will prevent scenes from merging together.  The arrows indicate entry/exit points from the layout scenic section to the hidden sidings below, the drop in level being very gradual - I estimate for example that the UP main having come through the Canyon scene will have dropped to hidden siding level somewhere around the Intermodal Thru Roads text.  The left hand CSX entrance/exit (bottom left) will be dropping from the scenic break in order to pas under the BNSF main and swing across to the far left wall and continue to decrease in height down the next 22ft length, working clockwise.

 

Rich

Edited June 22 by MarshLane
Amended Diagram

[stivesnick]

Rich 

 

Thanks for the block plan - it makes more sense now. One thing to think about is where does the switching lead for the classification yard go. Ideally it would not block operation on any of the main lines or arrival/departure tracks. It is also worth thinking about how far you can reach across the layout to uncouple cars, clean the track etc. I would be tempted to put the classification tracks next to the operating space so you are not leaning over lots of other cars to uncouple, however that would impact your mega junction between the various routes.

 

Nick 

[MarshLane]

Hi Nick,

Thanks, you have valid points there.  In terms of the switching lead, I am going to have to work towards a bit of an unprototypical operation in some respects. My thought is that the pairs of SD40s (I have one pair, and probably acquire another set) that will be the yard switchers, will have a short siding (see brown marks added to previous map), to act as a small headshunt and allow them to come on to trains from that end of the arrival sidings. They would then set back onto a rake of cars in the arrival roads, and propelled them into the classification roads.  The link between arrival roads and classification would be double track, so potentially a train can arrive from the south at the same time as a rake is being switched.  That would keep switching operations away from the main lines, allowing services to head straight through.

 

I get your comments on reaching over for the classification roads.  I might swap the position of the classification roads and the engine facility, which reduce that problem.  One advantage with American N is that everything has automatic couplers, which makes life easier!

 

Canyon/City

The other thought I have had this evening, since reading your comment, as I am pondering whether the Canyon scene will look wrong and pushed in?  I think I am more inclined to remove that, keep the UP Main from the north hidden until it emerges over the River Bridges, and use the space to continue to City environment, which would allow the junction from the main into the classification yard/intermodal through sidings to be modelled.  I suspect that would look better and more in keeping with the whole layout.

 

Grades

The one aspect I didnt mention earlier was that following some very primitive tests (they dont get much simpler!) I will be deploying DCC Concepts Powerbase system on the grades, just to give the locos that little extra help, with the small N gauge magnets, its not too challenging to hide them below and with the longer trains I think it will be a bonus.

 

Rich

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Thanks for the plan @MarshLane, makes a lot of sense.  Only thing for me would be the duck-unders (I’ve reached ‘that age’ where my knees no longer enjoy bending much), Keith.

Edited June 23 by Keith Addenbrooke

[F-UnitMad]

19 hours ago, MarshLane said:

Trackwork in the scenic section will be handbuilt

"Wow!!" and "Why??" in that order.... 🤯🤔🤷‍♂️

I can gather from your plan there might be some areas such as crossings that would need hand laying to suit, but for general running lines, and a big yard, there is no advantage at all over using flexitrack, especially in N, and especially as being a Class 1 network, you won't be after the sort of 'rough track' effect I did for my Short Line in O....

It too me several years to hand spike all my track, in 17ft x 8ft, which really amounts to no more than an oval, siding (passing loop) and three long spurs (sidings), plus making 5 switches (turnouts/points). There is no way on Earth I'd have done that in HO, never mind N. 

Just my 2p.

[MarshLane]

 

Hi @Keith Addenbrooke

Yes I tend to agree, I had looked at a plan where there was a 180 degree horseshoe type curve on that middle length, avoiding the need to duck under, but I couldn’t make the layout work how I wanted, so I reluctantly accepted that bit!

 

1 hour ago, F-UnitMad said:

"Wow!!" and "Why??" in that order.... 🤯🤔🤷‍♂️

I can gather from your plan there might be some areas such as crossings that would need hand laying to suit, but for general running lines, and a big yard, there is no advantage at all over using flexitrack, especially in N, and especially as being a Class 1 network, you won't be after the sort of 'rough track' effect I did for my Short Line in O....

 

Lol! Yes I can understand both expressions! I primarily meant that pointwork would be handbuilt, for which there are a number of reasons, firstly cost, I can make points cheaper than they can be purchased, and for the number required that’s a major consideration.  I am not a fan of Peco points - their reliability is superb but the plastic on the frogs winds me up, it just removes that prototypical look. Thirdly,  handbuilt points allow for longer turnouts, which gives smoother running, they can be slightly curved to fit the location and being all rail, no plastic it’s better pickups. Working from Templot plans, I can build a N gauge point in about 80 minutes and a crossover in about 95, so it’s quite quick .. that includes wiring up and handing the polarity switching. 
 

I agree that flexitrack is fine for yards and main lines, although I need to price the options up. At a very rough estimate there are around 160 metres of trackwork, scenic and hidden yards, so what it actually used will come down to cost.  I am not sure where in the world you are, but N gauge Peco flexitrack is about £95 per box of 25 yards/metres (approx).  Building the straight trackwork myself, may work out a cheaper option, given the size. For straight track, it’s also really easy to do!

 

Rich

Edited June 23 by MarshLane

[F-UnitMad]

1 hour ago, MarshLane said:

At a very rough estimate there are around 160 metres of trackwork, scenic and hidden yards, so what it actually used will come down to cost.

Apologies, I am also forgetting of course, that "hand laid" can mean several different methods, not involving spiking!! There is certainly no doubt either that DIY track can save a lot of money, in any scale. 👍

I'm in the UK. 👋

[MarshLane]

2 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

Apologies, I am also forgetting of course, that "hand laid" can mean several different methods, not involving spiking!! There is certainly no doubt either that DIY track can save a lot of money, in any scale. 👍

I'm in the UK. 👋

@F-UnitMad Sorry I dont know your name!

No need to apologise at all, very valid point!  There could still be some spiked track existing in Class 1 yards, but I suspect its all flat bottom concrete sleepers on the main lines, given the speeds, tonnages and quantity of freight that moves!

 

I forgot to add to my previous response for a short line I love the appearance of the track, well done!

 

Rich

Edited June 23 by MarshLane

[F-UnitMad]

48 minutes ago, MarshLane said:

3 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

 

@F-UnitMad Sorry I dont know your name!

It's Jordan. 👍

"F-UnitMad" is from when I first registered on RMweb & needed a User name! I didn't want to use my real name at that time, and have always had a thing for EMD F-unit engines, so that was it. 🙄

I also go by "Sunday Shunter" elsewhere; this goes back to my HGV driving days - I did 12 years on nights for one Company & my working week often started with acting as Yard Shunter on a Sunday night, moving trailers around as they were tipped & loaded. At least it sort of sounds like a railway connection... 

[MarshLane]

3 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

It's Jordan. 👍

"F-UnitMad" is from when I first registered on RMweb & needed a User name! I didn't want to use my real name at that time, and have always had a thing for EMD F-unit engines, so that was it. 🙄

 

Hi Jordan,

Well good to have you (and everyone else!) along for the ride.  Slow and steady will be the name of the game ... my interest in the US railroads is definitely today's era, rather than historic, although steam may make the odd appearance if I buck up the courage to spend that amount of money!!! :). But having said all that, there is nothing wrong with the heritage stock and F units :)

 

Rich

 

[dave1905]

Track plan reminds me of E. St Louis.  A truly knotted mess of junctions and railroads.  Two major terminal railroads operate the largest terminal yards, the Alton & Southern (ALS) and the Terminal Railroad Association (TRRA).

[Jeff_W]

Looking forward to seeing your progress. Even a "small" Class 1 yard can look pretty big. I took this photo at Centralia, Illinois back in May. The yard isn't used for much these days, a BNSF local sits on one track, with the "local" to Paducah, Kentucky on another track. A coal train also awaits departure.

BNSF Yard, Centralia,IL 5/12/2024 by Jeff  Wagoner, on Flickr

 

Centralia is one of my favorite places to see multiple Class 1 railroads in one location, Canadian National comes in from the north(or south), NS runs east to west while getting authority from the BNSF Beardstown dispatcher, and BNSF itself also has a northwest/southeast run through town. Throw in several Amtrak trains a day and it's quite the variety. Might be worth a look at least for inspiration. I've also seen numerous spots where Class 1s or other railroads cross each other via bridge/diamond that I think would be interesting to model.

 

Larger yards feel overwhelming, this is CSX's Osborn Yard in Louisville, Kentucky:

CSX Q211-19, Osborn Yard, Louisville,KY 9/19/2016 by Jeff  Wagoner, on Flickr

 

A bigger yard does not always mean busier though. Norfolk Southern's yard at Danville, Kentucky is much smaller than the CSX one I just posted a photo of, yet sees about 35-40 trains in a 24 hour period compared to the two dozen or so that run out of CSX in Louisville. Danville doesn't really see any trains originate or terminate from the yard, save for one pair of freights. At least one or two locals work from DV while everything else stops for a re-crew or swaps out blocks of freight cars.

NS 279/123, Danville,KY 6/10/2023 (2) by Jeff  Wagoner, on Flickr

Danville Tower, Danville,KY 8/22/2016 by Jeff  Wagoner, on Flickr

 

Always happy to provide photo inspiration.