NJDOT paint colours

[simon b]

Hi all, I've got a pair of gp7s that I want to repaint into NJDOT blue and silver. Now what I'm not sure of is what blue it actually was?

 

In the photos I've seen it seems to similar to the blue used by the central new jersey railroad GP40p'S, which if I'm correct was actually B&O blue (the B&O were running the CNJ at this point in time).

 

Anybody know what color it really was, and if there is something like a Halfords color that would be a match.?

 

[simon b]

So after some digging I've found out that the CNJ blue was indeed the same as the B&O blue, however that is not the color NJDOT used for these locos.  The blue used was the same as the Erie Lackawanna "bluebird" livery as seen on U34ch locos.

 

Now I think I have found a match for it in "ford ontario blue", I've got a spray can of this which I will experiment with. I have a feeling it will need a black undercoat to get the look I want.

 

 

Edit: I've no idea why this pic is upside down.

Edited June 23 by simon b

[Mike_Walker]

They certainly weren't the same shade of blue as these two examples show.  The B&O/C&O shade was a "pure" blue whilst that used by NJDOT was darker and had a distinct green tint to it.

 

 

 

Note also that 5908 (which also appears in your picture) was not a "pure" GP7.  All of NJDOT's GP7s were of CNJ heritage and were what is sometimes called a "GP7P" as they had a squared off extension to the long hood to accommodate an auxiliary generator for train lighting.  This was unique to these locomotives although I believe the Boston & Maine had some GP9s similarly fitted.

 

[simon b]

Nice picture! 

 

I was looking for the conversion kit for steam heating compartment on them but it's no longer available it seems, looks like a scratch-build is needed for it.  I have a few spare proto GP9 shells bought for parts so the plan is to cut some of the smaller doors from those to make the heating compartment extension on the GP7's. 

 

I've got a pair of proto GP7's without dynamic brakes which will get modified into the NJdot locos, and an old AHM GP18 which will get converted into an unpowered CNJ "Red barron" GP7p.

 

There are also some old E8's that need the NJdot repaint too.

[Mike_Walker]

At the risk of being pedantic, the extension of the long hood on the CNJ GP7s housed an alternator which powered just the train lighting.  Steam generators on GP7s (and GP9s, 18s) were housed in the short hood and were found on numerous railroads.  Spotting features for a s/g fitted Geep are the second tank filler and the exhaust on the short hood.

[simon b]

6 hours ago, Mike_Walker said:

At the risk of being pedantic, the extension of the long hood on the CNJ GP7s housed an alternator which powered just the train lighting.  Steam generators on GP7s (and GP9s, 18s) were housed in the short hood and were found on numerous railroads.  Spotting features for a s/g fitted Geep are the second tank filler and the exhaust on the short hood.

 

You learn something new everyday, I hadn't realised it wasn't to do with the train heating. Was it just used for the old short CNJ coaches or is it normal practice for the loco to supply coach lighting?

[Mike_Walker]

Most roads used axle driven alternators or generators on the individual cars to power the lights, it was that the CNJ  and possibly one or two others decided to do it differently.  In some ways a forerunner of modern HEP systems although those provide all the power the train needs and are more sophisticated. 

 

Incidentally, going back to steam generators on early Geeps, EMD's usual practice was to divide the standard fuel tank internally into two compartments for water at the cab end and fuel at the rear.  Some roads however wanted to retain the full fuel capacity and for them an extended tank was fitted which took up almost all of the space between the trucks and displaced the air tanks which were normally mounted transversely under the frame between the tank and rear truck - just visible in my photo of 5908.  The displaced tanks were moved to the top of the long hood which enthusiasts call 'torpedo tubes'.  

 

The second-generation Geeps (and SDs) tended to have larger fuel tanks from the outset and on those the air tanks were fitted between the frame sill and the top of the tank as you can see on the B&O GP40 above.

[dave1905]

The "blue" is actually a charcoal grey color that has some blue tones in it.  The last time I saw NJDOT engines in the flesh was in the 1970's and they were definitely a charcoal grey.  It appears the "grey" has gotten bluer over the years, with the EL, era engines tending more towards grey and the more modern engines tending more towards a dark blue.  Compare 5902 or 5681 to 4101 a more recent acquisition.  There is a definite shift to blue. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[simon b]

Thanks for the pics.  I never got to see the locos in the flesh so have to rely on reference pictures only, some of which can be a bit misleading. 

 

It looks like the blue certainly could weather to a grey color, comparing these pics of 3372 which has been recently restored cosmetically.

 

 

 

[Johann Marsbar]

1 minute ago, simon b said:

Thanks for the pics.  I never got to see the locos in the flesh so have to rely on reference pictures only, some of which can be a bit misleading. 

 

It looks like the blue certainly could weather to a grey color, comparing these pics of 3372 which has been recently restored cosmetically.

 

 

 

 

Another one in their collection in that livery is seen back in September 2014......

 

 

 

[simon b]

4253 is on my list to be modeled too, but with the NJT logo patch.